Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #25

[SleuthyGal]

Sleuthy, J.Adam lives in the Cambridge subdivision in Cary, per real estate records. I see that they also own a small condo in Cary. The Cambridge subdivision

It all feels very far away to me, considering I had never been as far on Kildaire Farm Rd than where the construction is. But I'm happy to report I have ventured to Holly Springs and Apex via that particular road (as opposed to just taking Hwy 1).

 

[reddress58]

Someone asked how far from Brad's home is Mike Hiller's. The Hiller's neighborhood on Strathburg is directly across the street from Brad's back yard, crossing Lochmere Dr. to Strathburg. Only a minute to get from one to the other by car.

The Lochmere Swim and Tennis is maybe two minutes from Brad's house. I haven't timed it, but I live a bit nearer than he does.

Don't jump on me folks, but I have lots of the pics of Nancy with her friends in my head, online, etc. Nancy and Jessica were really tight from what I see in pics of them. Always hugging, (well, all of her friends were always in huggy pics with Nancy, so that's just how Nancy was, I guess) trips to this and that girlie getaway, some to other states, LOTS of drinking going on in pics...I could swear that Jessica, Clea and Nancy were glued together. Now, I'm just not that huggy all the time, but maybe some people are. Nor do I like to spend that much time with friends and neighbors, but that's just me. I crave solitude.

But, maybe, and it's a big maybe...maybe there was someone in the group who had it going on with Nancy. I'm thinking male or female. That's only a big fat guess. And, something in my gut saying this. I've always said that there's more than we know going on here, and lots more to come out of the closet. Still, BC is my main suspect for Nancy's murderer.

I think this is a bunch of bull and hearsay. I have similar very close friends and there is no sexual or otherwise inappropriate relationships going on among us. That is the beauty of being female. You can have close friends.

 

[Anderson]

As for the whole he said/she said stuff that is part of the various affidavits...I think I'm going to have to ignore it in making my mind up about the murder case because I cannot determine who is telling the truth and who is not, who is exaggerating and who is not. And a lot of the assertions cannot be verified other than the fact that the Coopers had an unhappy marriage that was not improving at all and were heading towards divorce.

So, I'm going to have to focus only on the rest of the statements relating directly to the murder and timeline, and other facts that can be verified/corroborated since I am unable to work with the other (he said/she said) info.

I am sure that you are right. My reactions to these are just that, reactions. I agree that the comments don't substantiate anything.

However, the statements do provide a context for what turned out to be a murder, and they are the only insight into NC and BC's life. In that respect they are interesting. I can't help but notice that NC's friends provided their statements straight away. The BC's camp responses are reactions to NC's friends, and clearly meant to support Brad, and allegations against him (although MH has only done this now for some reason or another). NC's friends called the police, her parents and asked questions very early, which IMO, lead to a much quicker response to the murder than may have been the case otherwise. For that reason, I find them hard to ignore completely.

I see your point though, it is helpful to put them aside to analyze the case. Your approach reduces the clutter.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Seems that MH indicates LE knew about the tennis plans no later than Sunday as they spoke to him on the phone about it. It would not be included in the affidavit simply because it does not support a reason for evidence to be found. You got it.

Okay I can live with this. Which is a good thing cause I'll have to! Conspiracy paranoia theory averted in the nick of time! :crazy:

 

[jumpstreet]

But, maybe, and it's a big maybe...maybe there was someone in the group who had it going on with Nancy. I'm thinking male or female. That's only a big fat guess. And, something in my gut saying this. I've always said that there's more than we know going on here, and lots more to come out of the closet. Still, BC is my main suspect for Nancy's murderer.

Good post ncnative. You now seem officially "open" to the possibility of Theory B (or some variant).

I'm with you... (Theory A is the frontrunner, but Theory B is still by no means an impossibility, given the (relatively little) amount we know).

 

[jumpstreet]

So, I'm going to have to focus only on the rest of the statements relating directly to the murder and timeline, and other facts that can be verified/ corroborated since I am unable to work with the other (he said/she said) info.

I think it's a good idea too (though easier said than done I suspect).
It requires not forming any prejudicial opinions related to the type of person BC is (manipulative/controlling vs laid-back and easy-going).

Given the amount of he-said/she-said is so thick, you could pluck it out of the air like it were grapes, it does take some effort to ensure any such bias doesn't enter our conclusions.

 

[momto3kids]

I don't see anywhere where MH states it was at 6:40 the LE is asking about. Am I missing it somewhere on the affidavit?
MH states calls, like more than 1.

Does anyone remember BC was trying to set an alibi up at LTF????

 

[ncnative]

YES, I so SCREWED UP saying that Cambridge backs up to the Strathburg residence. I was WRONG. There's another division that begins with a C back here, and I am totally screwed up. SORRY.

But still, J. Adam and the Hillers are not in the same neighborhood.

Sometimes I really mess up.

 

[Anderson]

I think this is a bunch of bull and hearsay. I have similar very close friends and there is no sexual or otherwise inappropriate relationships going on among us. That is the beauty of being female. You can have close friends.

We have absolutely no reason to think that NC was bisexual. Who knows what went on in that respect and what does it really matter anyway? Certainly not a justification for murder.

I do agree with NCN in one way: there is a lot we don't know.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I am sure that you are right. My reactions to these are just that, reactions. I agree that they don't substantiate anything.

Yes they're interesting in sort of a voyeuristic, salacious kind of way, but I don't see either party in that marriage as 'all good' vs 'all bad.' I don't find it helpful (for me) to canonize Nancy. She was human and had issues, I'm sure. And neither does it help me to put horns on BC's head and imagine him with a tail and pitchfork either. Again, it does nothing to further my understanding of the reality of this case. At one time these two loved each other and were in-love. And then, several years later, they weren't. And one was murdered, most likely by the other. And I suspect the reality is that both participated in the disintegration of the marriage to a greater or lesser degree. I'm most curious about the facts that will prove (or disprove if such a thing exists) who murdered Nancy so that's where I need to focus.

 

[reddress58]

We have absolutely no reason to think that NC was bisexual. Who knows what went on in that respect and what does it really matter anyway? Certainly not a justification for murder.

I do agree with NCN in one way: there is a lot we don't know.

Bringing the "bisexual" thing into the equation based on just pictures of close friends having a good time together is totally out of order! It is unfair to both Nancy and her friends. There is nothing unusual about these pictures to women who have close female freindships. I'm sorry, but I feel very strongly about this insinuation.

 

[jumpstreet]

I don't see anywhere where MH states it was at 6:40 the LE is asking about. Am I missing it somewhere?
He states calls. Does anyone remember BC was trying to set an alibi up at LTF????

I think it's an assumption (and probably a reasonable one) at this point, that the call BC claims NC made to him the morning she went missing are the ones LE were inquiring about. Do you think it might be some other phone calls they are interested in, or calls that BC received at other times of the day? [ Ones we don't know about? ]

Regarding LTF - did we ever establish for sure that he was there trying to set up an alibi? [Sorry - just trying to recall... ] I recall that he mentions going there in his affidavit (to search). I also recall we discussed some reports (only second hand) that he tried to see if the front desk would tell him if she was in the club or not [and they wouldn't say either way... ]

 

[ncnative]

We have absolutely no reason to think that NC was bisexual. Who knows what went on in that respect and what does it really matter anyway? Certainly not a justification for murder.

I do agree with NCN in one way: there is a lot we don't know.

No, Anderson, we don't. I'm saying that there is mention of "several affairs" among the group (in DD's blog, where someone responded to her), whether amongst the actual members, or one of them having an affair with someone outside the group, etc. But, when there's a possibility of what EVER sexual orientation having affairs, thereby enters another world of possibilities for "talk", jealousies, and I'm not sure what else. I'm saying it's a tangled mess.

If this were a soap opera for instance, a spouse could be getting it on with their friend's spouse, and that spouse could be getting on with another, and so on and so forth, and then, someone falls behind a bookshelf and dies and then....no wait, that's Desperate Housewives.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I don't see anywhere where MH states it was at 6:40 the LE is asking about. Am I missing it somewhere on the affidavit?
MH states calls, like more than 1.

Does anyone remember BC was trying to set an alibi up at LTF????

Hey Mom, I think we are assuming this 'setting up an alibi' is in reference to his HT trip(s) and the alleged call from Nancy to him. You're right though--MH does not specify time frames of said calls.

Nancy's cell phone was allegedly in the house during the time that Brad was driving around 'looking' for her. If that's true, that would include the time of his visit to LTF. Wonder if any calls were made from Nancy's phone after this (alleged) last call at 6:40am?

 

[jumpstreet]

No "single" thing of course even comes close to suggesting that NC was having extra-marital relationships. However, like we've done in general with the case, we often take a step back, and look at several things "together", and the aggregate maybe sways your opinion one way or the other.

In this case, the aggregate is comprised of: the recent MH affidavit with implications on JA, the implication that extra-marital relationships were not uncommon amongs NC's circle of friends, the notion that the general section of Lochmere they reside in has such a "reputation" for some time (swing city), and - from ncnative's perspective - even some of the photos. None of these things by themselves are conclusive, and of course, even when taken together they aren't conclusive. The combination though does start to add up somewhat to open the possibility.

Regardless, as others have said, an extra-marital affair, regardless of who/where/when/how doesn't justify murder!

Here's the (very hypothetical) question though: If it were a known fact that NC was indeed having an affair with the spouse of someone else... would that fact "change everything" in terms of how we're viewing the case, or would it at least be categorized as "relevent"?

 

[reddress58]

No "single" thing of course even comes close to suggesting that NC was having extra-marital relationships. However, like we've done in general with the case, we often take a step back, and look at several things "together", and the aggregate maybe sways your opinion one way or the other.

In this case, the aggregate is comprised of: the recent MH affidavit with implications on JA, the implication that extra-marital relationships were not uncommon amongs NC's circle of friends, the notion that the general section of Lochmere they reside in has such a "reputation" for some time (swing city), and - from ncnative's perspective - even some of the photos. None of these things by themselves are conclusive, and of course, even when taken together they aren't conclusive. The combination though does start to add up somewhat to open the possibility.

Regardless, as others have said, an extra-marital affair, regardless of who/where/when/how doesn't justify murder!

Here's the (very hypothetical) question though: If it were a known fact that NC was indeed having an affair with the spouse of someone else... would that fact "change everything" in terms of how we're viewing the case, or would it at least be categorized as "relevent"?

Yes. It would give Brad more reason to strangle the life out of her.

 

[SleuthyGal]

In my mind the only relevant things are evidence relating to the actual murder, the timeline, the body, the search warrants, the results of forensic testing, etc, etc. Who was sleeping with who or not does not appear to change the salient facts of the case as far as we know them.

ETA: LOL Reddress!

 

[ncnative]

Anderson, who used the word bi-sexual? Not I. I said that there were possibilities other than what we know. I said I have pictures in my head of these possibilities, pictures from online photos that show plenty of drinking, partying, and so on. We all know what alcohol does to the brain/body. We don't know what they all did.

As to what justifies murder...nothing.

People murder and don't have a justification. People murder out of rage, jealousy, drunkenness, for money, mental illness, and the list continues.

I'll state my opinions, my guesses, and possibilities just like others do here. If someone is annoyed, bothered, or otherwise, okay. I'm bothered that Nancy was murdered. I'm bothered that Michelle Young was murdered. People have "insinuated" many things here on WS as to the possibilities. Shall we consider how all these possibilities can weave into the tangle of death and murder? Of course we shall and will and have.

 

[sunflowers]

YES, I so SCREWED UP saying that Cambridge backs up to the Strathburg residence. I was WRONG. There's another division that begins with a C back here, and I am totally screwed up. SORRY.

But still, J. Adam and the Hillers are not in the same neighborhood.

Sometimes I really mess up.

no problem, ncnative. were you talking about camden forest? nonetheless, though, where JA lives in cambridge is still quite close to Lochmere--it's in Cary near the intersection of Penny & Regency. very close to one of the car washes on kildare & Penny that we've wondered about....

 

[Anderson]

No, Anderson, we don't. I'm saying that there is mention of "several affairs" among the group (in DD's blog, where someone responded to her), whether amongst the actual members, or one of them having an affair with someone outside the group, etc. But, when there's a possibility of what EVER sexual orientation having affairs, thereby enters another world of possibilities for "talk", jealousies, and I'm not sure what else. I'm saying it's a tangled mess.

If this were a soap opera for instance, a spouse could be getting it on with their friend's spouse, and that spouse could be getting on with another, and so on and so forth, and then, someone falls behind a bookshelf and dies and then....no wait, that's Desperate Housewives.

I do see what you mean. And as I mentioned above, I don't think that social context can be ignored completely. For example, the reason that I tend to believe the early "stories" from NC's friends is mainly because they weighed in very early. The comments from BC's friends were a response to these comments. As far as the girl's trips etc., well they were supporting NC in her upcoming separation from BC, I would think. I really believe that at that particular point she was much closer to her friends than she was to Brad. And she probably was looking around in anticipation of her upcoming single life. NC's family also know that they were about to separate, IMO. MH makes NC sound like a problematic partying wife. And I object to that based on what I know, although I certainly don't know enough.

NC's friends acted proactively
BC's friends are acting reactively

I don't see the investigation focusing on anyone but Brad (and now a bit on MH). But as you say, we know very little, and it is difficult to read between the lines.

JMO