Nancy Grace Monday 12/8/2008

[DollyPardonMe]

According to KC it's somebody's "psycho ex-wife"

I think she said Mark's psycho ex-wife. The only Mark I remember reading about is MH the marine.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

I am sure they asked he remove himself because he had her number. He saw right through her and they knew it. I personally hope she gets a woman with children............that will do her.

Turbo, We would have see that motion.:wink::blowkiss:

There would have been a hearing on the issue.

I'm pretty sure its standard procedure.

Where would they find a Judge who doesn't read her like a First Grade Primer?

 

[countzero]

Well I did mention on another thread that if it did happen then Casey very well could have thrown the child into the car - Casey is way stronger than Caylee - Caylee could have hit her head, stopped moving and when Casey realized it happened she might have taken a day or two to figure out what story she needs to come up with - and thats where the kidnapping story came from - THO I think when the car was abandoned it was set up to look like a kidnapping of her and Caylee and Caylee was the one who didn't survive

I came out of lurking because this is more than likely what happened to Caylee.

Unless any of you have lived with a person with similar traits that KC exhibits, you can not fathom this happening. I can unfortunately.

The car holds the answers and will be disclosed during the trial. No one needs KC to tell the truth because Caylee will do it for her at trial. All this other stuff is just that, stuff. We are voyeurs into the A's life, what life there is now.

If anything, this case tells everyone that behind closed doors, there is no normal all the time. NG to some maybe rude, but in her own way, she gets the answers she is looking for, that we are looking for.

 

[DollyPardonMe]

I don't think we are claiming it as a defense. We are only saying that the defense will use bipolar to explain her lying and partying and stealing. They will still maintain that Caylee was taken and that it send KC into a manic phase...to try to cope

They will try to gather sympathy for her because IMO that's their only defense as to her behavior after Caylee went missing.

 

[manatee]

Trac, I was actually agreeing with the first sentence indy wrote. I agree it takes more than amonth to figure out someone is bi-polar. I think a mental defense is going nowhere. The charge is murder, she is not insane.

I don't think anyone is saying that defense will claim insanity. the defense will use bipolar to explain the eratic behavior and the lying, stealing, promiscuity, and partying. they will explain the forensics to "junk science"

 

[cyberborg]

Oh I know - I can go by the famous Britney Spears and her bi-polar saga through the media - ALL people that came in contact with her said how extreme she was - how manic she was - both in extreme highs and extreme lows - the press and paparazzi unfortunately recorded the whole thing - we saw her crying and downright depressed - we saw her angry - we saw her extremely high and giggly - we saw running around at all hours, drinking, partying -

I understand not all bi-polars are the same BUT lets look at Casey - NO one has said she was manic - she acted normal, like everyone else - her parents have said nothing about any personality disorders except for being a sociopath - her boyfriends don't say she was manic or extreme

I just don't see bi-polar -I see someone who has self esteem issues - she lied to make herself look better to others, she stole money because she always thought she was too good for any job - she became mirrors of her boyfriends - Jesse, religious and straight laced - Tony, parties, bars - then JB, yes Baez, she was arrested looking like a paralegal

Casey I don't think is bi-polar - Casey has self esteem issues - since she doesn't think she's good enough - she lies and becomes someone else to look better to others

Being a mother as too real and too hard - and she couldn't hide 'herself' from Caylee

All my opinion

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[ThoughtElf]

Trac, I was actually agreeing with the first sentence indy wrote. I agree it takes more than amonth to figure out someone is bi-polar. I think a mental defense is going nowhere. The charge is murder, she is not insane.

They wouldn't use BP as the basis for NGRI defense - doesn't fit the Mc Naughton rules. They might try it on for size for diminished capacity/responsibility, but that would only fly if they were admitting some guilt, I think.

If JB does present this, it would only be useful as a way to possible explain her behavior - IMO

 

[manatee]

I've thought from the beginning that Casey has symptoms of bipolar and after hearing more, psychotic symptoms that go can go along with it. Now it's come out that she had bouts of depression before. She's definitely not normal, and probably also a sociopath.

yeap....she still killed Caylee, however, and she still knew right from wrong, so insanity plea will not fly.

 

[robotdog]

Hey robotdog
Agreed! but you have to admit...it's the best shot they've got. I'm glad the DP lawyer revealed their hand. he,he

yepper

im with you

best thing they have... and it stinks
but its all the got

 

[MiraclesHappen]

I am curious as to why you think that?

My understanding is that only mental issue that has any weight in court at all is whether you know right from wrong. She hid her crimes and lied to the police. That ship has sailed. Her behavior afterwards won't flatter her in court, but she is not charged with pole dancing after the fact. It is not a defense for murder or aggravated manslaughter of a child.

I am genuinely interested in how it would help the defense?

Thanks, I agree and I have the same question.

It might be used as a factor in arguing for such and such mercy, after a conviction.

But it is NOT a defense to murder.

There is no shrink on the witness list to testify about this speculative diagnosis and its ramifications., anyway.

 

[Recovering-Lurker]

Oh I know - I can go by the famous Britney Spears and her bi-polar saga through the media - ALL people that came in contact with her said how extreme she was - how manic she was - both in extreme highs and extreme lows - the press and paparazzi unfortunately recorded the whole thing - we saw her crying and downright depressed - we saw her angry - we saw her extremely high and giggly - we saw running around at all hours, drinking, partying -

I understand not all bi-polars are the same BUT lets look at Casey - NO one has said she was manic - she acted normal, like everyone else - her parents have said nothing about any personality disorders except for being a sociopath - her boyfriends don't say she was manic or extreme

I just don't see bi-polar -I see someone who has self esteem issues - she lied to make herself look better to others, she stole money because she always thought she was too good for any job - she became mirrors of her boyfriends - Jesse, religious and straight laced - Tony, parties, bars - then JB, yes Baez, she was arrested looking like a paralegal

Casey I don't think is bi-polar - Casey has self esteem issues - since she doesn't think she's good enough - she lies and becomes someone else to look better to others

Being a mother as too real and too hard - and she couldn't hide 'herself' from Caylee

All my opinion

Exactly! No one has said that she showed any bi-polar tendencies. All her friends said she was normal, happy and acted like the mother of the group. She is not bi-polar imo. This defense tactic will not work.

 

[MarleneM]

According to KC it's somebody's "psycho ex-wife"

Hello Pot!

Why, helllloooo Kettle!

 

[elementary]

Experience...grew up with an extremely bipolar parent.
Her behavior before hand, somewhat, yes and somewhat, no. She was keeping up her charade pretty well, which usually does not happen with a bipolar person.
On the other hand, the partying, lying, and such, yes, those are bipolar-manic behaviors.
Her behavior afterward, definitely.
Not an excuse though, and not a viable defense, with the number of bipolar parents without dead kids.

The latter behaviours are also characteristic of psychopaths. Pathological lying is a cardinal symptom according to Hare's checklist whereas it is not considered a cardinal symptom of bipolar. My bipolar friend went through phases of recklessness, but she still had a conscience, didn't spend all hours manipulating people, and doesn't exhibit the indifferent affect that the perp does. Bipolars can accept responsibility for their behaviour and don't blame all and sundry 24/7.

I think the bipolar defense is simply a way to take the focus off the fact that a murder occurred. Psychopaths are known to murder while I'm not aware of bipolar leading to murder.

And if the perp is bipolar, for argument's sake, is she on medication now?

List of Common Psychopathic Traits
Glib and superficial charm; Grandiose sense of self-worth; Need for stimulation; Pathological lying; Conning and manipulativeness; Lack of remorse or guilt; Shallow affect; Callousness and lack of empathy; Parasitic lifestyle; Poor behavioral controls; Promiscuous sexual behavior; Early behavior problems; Lack of realistic, long-term goals; Impulsivity; Irresponsibility; Failure to accept responsibility for own actions; Many short-term marital relationships; Juvenile delinquency; Revocation of conditional release; Criminal versatility

 

[cyberborg]

It was interesting that in the videos KC said that her friends are misconstruing everything and then proceeded to throw JG under the bus, setting CA off on him.

Just like CA if you don't follow what KC is saying verbatim you are out and on the outside.

It seems KC cannot even trust the pyschoanalyst to talk to, only JB and the A family are trusted and the A family are directed to investigate on her behalf -- NOT LE!!

 

[trac]

Exactly! No one has said that she showed any bi-polar tendencies. All her friends said she was normal, happy and acted like the mother of the group. She is not bi-polar imo. This defense tactic will not work.

I'm no psychiatrist, I do not claim to know a lot of mental illness - my family as far as I know didn't have anyone with any mental illness - when I was younger, I'd say a teen, I had major depression - attempted suicide once, ended up in a hospital (I've never said that outloud - that is wierd to say) anyways - I had major self esteem issues when I was growing up until my early adult years - there was NOTHING in my lifestyle, my family life to suggest that there was anything wrong - I didn't really know this until maybe 5 years ago, my children are older and I never want them to go through what I went through so I'm guessing I'm more mindful of it and I can notice it when I see it.

I never thought I was good enough, I never thought anyone would like me - I was stupid when I was young - NOW I know better

Anyways - as I see ths unfold I see Casey the same way - she has zero self esteem, it doesn't look that way especially when she struts around - that wasn't Casey, she was someone else in her mind

This is why I don't see bi polar - I've been there done that - the bar scene, the flavor of the week, etc.

Again just my opinion

 

[Valrico Analyzer]

im with you

i hope they use it. its all they got

it wont work - and might make it a very short trial

Now I know why they took the DP off the table. They found out what the defense was gonna use and felt sorry for them, no point in "running up the score" on a helpless team.

And if they even TRY to run a parellel to Andrea yates...forget about that. Read her story.

Here's how comedy central/Casey Anthony style plays out in court:

JB: (opening statement) She has Bipolar. That explains everything. She had an episode and the nanny feared for Caylee and took her away and then disappeared.

DA: ok, let's go ask the nonexistent nanny...where is at least just 1 person on this planet who can confirm she exists?

DA: does KC have any recollection of this "nanny" putting her back into the car after she was deceased? Because thats where her decomp fluids were.

DA: so she was on such a manic (high) she didn't care to look for her?

Personally, the defense has better chances if they say JB is bipolar!!!

 

[jennyb]

This whole thing about Caylee getting off the table, we've discussed a million times! He said he got the date wrong at first and he said he THOUGHT she told Caylee to get off the table. It's called shorthand between friends. Filling in the blanks. Which KC probably deliberately did to him. "Get off the table" she said. And he filled in the blanks. Maybe she said "Get off the table, Caylee" or maybe she didn't say "Caylee". She could've been talking to the cat. Or she could've been talking to the air. The point is she knew JG would ASSUME she was talking to Caylee. That's the point. JG didn't think it was all that important at the time and so he forgot the date. Geesh.

Also, Turbo... can a defense attorney just boot off a Judge? This makes me so sad because I love Strickland. Sigh. I hope they get someone a hundred times tougher, then. Like the Judge on the OJ trial. She was TOUGH.

 

[indicat]

They wouldn't use BP as the basis for NGRI defense - doesn't fit the Mc Naughton rules. They might try it on for size for diminished capacity/responsibility, but that would only fly if they were admitting some guilt, I think.

If JB does present this, it would only be useful as a way to possible explain her behavior - IMO

They are not using it as a defense, they are using it according to the lawyer used for the DP in kc's case to explaine the behavior after her daughter went missing, not the reason for.

 

[Daydreamer]

No, it's all through video monitor, they are in seperate rooms or parts of the jail.

Visitors are in a building across the street from the jail.

 

[ThoughtElf]

I'm no psychiatrist, I do not claim to know a lot of mental illness - my family as far as I know didn't have anyone with any mental illness - when I was younger, I'd say a teen, I had major depression - attempted suicide once, ended up in a hospital (I've never said that outloud - that is wierd to say) anyways - I had major self esteem issues when I was growing up until my early adult years - there was NOTHING in my lifestyle, my family life to suggest that there was anything wrong - I didn't really know this until maybe 5 years ago, my children are older and I never want them to go through what I went through so I'm guessing I'm more mindful of it and I can notice it when I see it.

I never thought I was good enough, I never thought anyone would like me - I was stupid when I was young - NOW I know better

Anyways - as I see ths unfold I see Casey the same way - she has zero self esteem, it doesn't look that way especially when she struts around - that wasn't Casey, she was someone else in her mind

This is why I don't see bi polar - I've been there done that - the bar scene, the flavor of the week, etc.

Again just my opinion

Trac, I am really glad your attempt didn't succeed. :blowkiss: