• #36,521
Is this a cold case?
If the genealogy comes up empty, I don't know what's left. Nobody is willing to come forward and identify Lantana Man. If the physical evidence yields no leads, they're pretty much dead in the water.
 
  • #36,522
I see your point. You think the gloves are not from the villain. Why would he leave them, right?
More likely some smart azz kids playing a prank.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
  • #36,523
The problem as I see it, is he is doing a sloppy job bordering on incompetence.

I am not looking at it politically---I have no idea what his politics are. I'm looking solely at his actions.

I liked him at first for giving lots of pressers with lots of info. But we soon learned that much of the timeline he was detailing was just off the cuff, not accurate at all...and later when people began asking about it, he was compassing that people were 'hanging on his every word' and holding him accountable for those details. It annoyed him apparently. :rolleyes:

Then he released the crime scene to the family unusually fast. It surprised people. But it wasn't that surprising when the yellow tape went up a couple of more times for retesting and further investigations. Problem is, any further evidence from tests done at that time would likely be rejected by the court because the scene was not secured.

I haven't seen any criticism of the hard working officers or deputies.

The public criticism seems to be focused on the inconsistencies in Sheriff Nano's statements---i.e.-- 'no one has been cleared'---'the family has been cooperative and been now been cleared'--- to 'the family was cleared within the first days of the investigation...'

He trips over his own statements and it is frustrating ....imo



I haven't seen a lot of successes so far.

Just now he is saying that he and only he is making any decisions at all in this investigation. He is not that experienced with these kinds of high profile cases. I would think he would be happy to have help from other agencies.
EXACTLY!!! I can’t wrap my head around running DNA evidence outside of the FBI at this point. I don’t care how friendly your relationship is with the Florida lab. Direct to the FBI lab is the only thing that makes sense. It’s arrogance at best and deliberate interference at worst.
 
  • #36,524
Not necessarily. There is not a lot of blood on her porch and the further you go past the nook onto the walkway the more spaced out her blood drops get.
Blood drops could be from wrist / forearm area. One photo of her shows a bandage on her wrist forearm area. If someone grabbed her arm and led her out of the residence, they could have broken the skin under the bandage, hence the drops of blood.
 
  • #36,525
Y
As I've said a few times upthread, my amateur speculation is that poor dear NG was murdered the night she disappeared and was dumped in the hills above her home. It is *extremely* difficult to find remains outdoors. Extremely. I do pray I'm wrong and that she can be brought home one way or another. Talk about heartless Perps. But then again, aren't they all.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Agree, just like Isabel Celis. Her remains would have never been found if the perp was not trying to get out of another crime he committed. Anyone else here follow her disappearance?

Also I think it may have been sexually motivated. It does happen to elderly females. This happened not far from me a few years ago but the perp was really stupid and was easily caught.

 
  • #36,526
I call hogwash on the 700 mile radius---there is NO NO way this perp is traveling hundreds of miles with a kidnap victim.

Stay close, she's there somewhere.

Why risk getting pulled over with an 84 y/o kidnap victim in your car that every media outlet has posted NG's picture out there. If there is one thing this perp accomplished---is that EVERYONE now knows NG and her big beautiful smile.

IMHO, if in fact the ransom note is real---you'd want to drop her off somewhere and get the hexx out of dodge so you don't spend the rest of your life wearing a custom designed orange wardrobe.
Right! HL interpreted the first ransom note stating NG would be returned within 12-hours after the ransom is paid as meaning they could be anywhere with a 12-hour drive away. That struck me as far-fetched. The 12-hour-drive radius stretches from Fresno, Salt Lake City, Glenwood Springs, almost to Austin or San Antonio.

Interpreting the ransom note that way includes such a large area as to be essentially meaningless, in my opinion. Arizona, New Mexico, half of California and Nevada, most of Utah, part of Colorado, slivers of Kansas and Oklahoma, and much of west Texas. And that's without considering Mexico.

Here's a map I colored, within the limitations of Paint, to give a visual of the 12-hour-drive range.

1771651198780.webp


Is it possible, sure. Is it likely? No way, in my opinion. Not with an elderly woman as the victim. The crimes were a kidnapper takes a victim that faraway are when he plans to start a new life, like child abductions or teens lured away or the woman he couldn't get who he's fantasized about. Highly unlikely this kidnapper needed to drive so far to hide out. NG is within 2 hours drive, IMO. The kidnapper could be long gone though.
 
  • #36,527
I will continue to follow this case, but I have no confidence in Pima County to conduct a proper investigation or adhere to standard investigative procedures. <modsnip>
 
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  • #36,528
Her kids won’t be able to resist believing she’s out there somewhere at least not for the time being. The first stage of grief is denial, even in a face of overwhelming evidence. Denial happens to the best of us.

In this case, maybe she has survived relatively unharmed. We can continue to hold onto that hope. For now.

Hi, I’m going to correct you on this one, as it is a major pet peeve of mine, and we don’t talk enough about grief and rely on outdated information. I am a Mental Health and Grief Counsellor. The stages of grief are absolutely not linear, nor does everyone go through all of them. Kubler-Ross who came up with the theory hated that it was taken out of context. The thinking these days is that each person’s grief is different and is informed by a variety of factors. People also experience grief differently at each new grief experience. Also a past grief can also greatly influence the grief someone experiences with a new grief event.

I will share some links below-

“These stages are meant to be descriptive, not prescriptive. This means they won’t necessarily apply to everyone or happen in the order presented. It’s common to weave in and out of stages and experience elements of them at the same time.

“Some people don’t go through all the stages,” Dr. Josell says, “and it’s not always nice and sequential. You may move in and out of different stages.””

Above From The Cleveland Clinic What Are the Stages of Grief?


Types of Grief People may experience

Ambiguous Loss- This tern was coined by researcher, Dr Pauline Boss. This would be how I would characterize the loss the Guthrie family is currently experiencing.


I hope the above is helpful to someone out there. Remember, grief is normal and okay. It’s different for all of us. My biggest advice- be gentle with yourself, first and foremost.

Edited to fix typos, dang fingers. Also, some of the links above may talk about “getting over it” or “resolution” I would say that most doing true grief work don’t believe in “getting over it” I like to use the analogy of a broken mirror. When my parents died, it felt like a broken mirror, with very sharp shards inside my body. For me, over time the shards have softened somewhat, but they are still there, and I notice the pain, often times unexpectedly. Their deaths have changed me. I may cry some days missing them. And I am okay with that. I treasure the memories I have of them, however, I am saddened that I cannot create new memories with them. I don’t believe I will ever “get over” or “resolve” their deaths. And that is okay.

Also to add this fantastic resource list.
Resources

MOO
 
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  • #36,529
Actually, legally, moving a dead, or dying person is considered kidnapping. It would be included in any list of criminal charges. My mother was murdered and kidnapping was one of the charges, as her body was removed from her home, and technically still alive, but dying. My own experience.
I can't imagine the pain your family has seen as the result of the attack on your beloved mother. I hope that justice was some relief.
I can't find any states' laws that include the language that one can be charged with kidnapping for moving a dead person, and I don't see that charge being possible in New Jersey, or in the case you cited. As a LEO, I have never seen or heard of this. I wouldn't even mention it, but quite a few people are likely to repeat or believe this MOO "misinformation". If you can provide information that I'm not aware of, like a state law, I would like to learn of it.
 
  • #36,530
Hi, I’m going to correct you on this one, as it is a major pet peeve of mine, and we don’t talk enough about grief and rely on outdated information. I am a Mental Health and Grief Counsellor. The stages of grief are absolutely not linear, nor does everyone go through all of them. Kubler-Ross who came up with the theory hated that it was taken out of context. The thinking these days is that each person’s grief is different and is informed by a variety of factors. People also experience grief differently at each new grief experience. Also a past grief can also greatly influence the grief someone experiences with a new grief event.

I will share some links below-

“These stages are meant to be descriptive, not prescriptive. This means they won’t necessarily apply to everyone or happen in the order presented. It’s common to weave in and out of stages and experience elements of them at the same time.

“Some people don’t go through all the stages,” Dr. Josell says, “and it’s not always nice and sequential. You may move in and out of different stages.””

Above From The Cleveland Clinic What Are the Stages of Grief?


Types of Grief People may experience

Ambiguous Loss- This tern was coined by researcher, Dr Pauline Boss. This would be how I would characterize the loss the Guthrie family is currently experiencing.


I hope the above is helpful to someone out there. Remember, grief is normal and okay. It’s different for all of us. My biggest advice- be gentle with yourself, first and foremost.

Edited to fix typos, dang fingers.
Sorry if I’ve misstated grief. I hope that they remain hopeful because we don’t know she hasn’t survived. Not at this point. If they’re fearful, if we’re fearful, that’s understandable.
 
  • #36,531
Blood drops could be from wrist / forearm area. One photo of her shows a bandage on her wrist forearm area. If someone grabbed her arm and led her out of the residence, they could have broken the skin under the bandage, hence the drops of blood.
I think this might be right. She might’ve had her hands bound behind her back, which could explain the blood without shoe prints on the porch. She could’ve been waylaid for some reason just outside the door, causing blood drops hit blood drops, creating the small splashes.
 
  • #36,532
Blood drops could be from wrist / forearm area. One photo of her shows a bandage on her wrist forearm area. If someone grabbed her arm and led her out of the residence, they could have broken the skin under the bandage, hence the drops of blood.
What about a nose bleed?
 
  • #36,533
The problem,as I see it, is he is doing a sloppy job bordering on incompetence.

I am not looking at it politically---I have no idea what his politics are. I'm looking solely at his actions.

I liked him at first for giving lots of pressers with lots of info. But we soon learned that much of the timeline he was detailing was just off the cuff, not accurate at all...and later when people began asking about it, he was complaining that people were 'hanging on his every word' and holding him accountable for those details. It annoyed him apparently. :rolleyes:

Then he released the crime scene to the family unusually fast. It surprised people. But it wasn't that surprising when the yellow tape went up a couple of more times for retesting and further investigation. Problem is, any further evidence from tests done at that time would likely be rejected by the court because the scene was not secured. Sloppy decision making, imo

I haven't seen any criticism of the hard working officers or deputies. Maybe I've missed it?

The public criticism seems to be focused upon the inconsistencies in Sheriff Nano's statements---i.e.-- 'no one has been cleared'---'the family has been cooperative and been now been cleared'--- to 'the family was cleared within the first days of the investigation...'

He trips over his own conflicting statements and it is frustrating ....imo



I haven't seen a lot of successes so far.

Just now he is saying that he and only he is making any decisions at all in this investigation. He is not that experienced with these kinds of high profile cases. I would think he would be happy to have help from other agencies.
I agree and not trying to pile on, but I believe honesty is key.

I've said from day one it was a huge mistake not establishing a multi agency task force. He seemed to be wanting to be lead and have everything go thru him. I'm not casting shade at his intentions, but I do believe it was a mistake.

The smartest person in the room is normally the one that surrounds themselves with the best and brightest and doesn't care who gets credit.

Inconsistencies is the correct term, "I contacted the FBI." "Well actually they contacted me". Then after the article was released he disputed that by saying we have a great working relationship and are connected at the hip and "I contacted them on day 1."

When you contradict yourself you open yourself up to criticism and rightfully so IMO. These are statements that aren't easy to confuse, just be honest. If you were initially reluctant to share information with the FBI then just be honest, no need to change your story. The truth carries the day. jmo
 
  • #36,534
There have been so many video’s of people’s door camera’s recording video of people going through so many people’s yards in Arizona. I would not only get camera’s for front and back door— I would get a german shepherd.
Best advice for safety here. Especially single females who are not armed, get a dog(s). Prowlers won't mess with dogs, by and large. Get a Rottweiler and see who takes it on.
 
  • #36,535
If the genealogy comes up empty, I don't know what's left. Nobody is willing to come forward and identify Lantana Man. If the physical evidence yields no leads, they're pretty much dead in the water.
If they have some idea of a vehicle of interest, that angle might pan out.

I’m surprised that the doorbell footage hasn’t provided a clear cluster around one name. The clothing could all have been bought for this crime, never to be used again, but the gait and movement seem distinctive enough for someone to recognise.
 
  • #36,536
Best advice for safety here. Especially single females who are not armed, get a dog(s). Prowlers won't mess with dogs, by and large. Get a Rottweiler and see who takes it on.

Couldn't agree more! 'cept my lil chichi is just on the wrong side of the size scale!
 
  • #36,537
HEY LOOK HEY LOOK HEY LOOK HEY LOOK HEY LOOK
picture woman looking down.webp

We’ve been approached by a national media outlet that is preparing a story on the kidnapping of Nancy Guthrie.

They are looking to speak with Websleuths members who are actively working together to analyze and try to help solve this case.

Anyone who participates must be willing to use their real name and be photographed.

If you are part of a Websleuths private message group focused on this case, or if you believe your public sleuthing on the forum reflects substantial work and thoughtful analysis, you may want to consider participating. If you are in Tucson and are boots on the ground working on the case, the outlet is especially interested in speaking with you.

If you would like to be connected with the reporter, please email me and I will facilitate the introduction. [email protected]

Please understand that any interview, photographs, or resulting coverage would be strictly between you and the reporter and their publication. Websleuths is simply helping make the connection in hopes that more light can be shed on Nancy’s case — and because our members deserve recognition for the serious, dedicated work they do. Email [email protected]

Thank you.

Tricia Griffith

Manager Websleuths.com

 
  • #36,538
If the genealogy comes up empty, I don't know what's left. Nobody is willing to come forward and identify Lantana Man. If the physical evidence yields no leads, they're pretty much dead in the water.
Respectfully, 40,000 to 50,000 leads have come in as of 3 days ago. We don't know what they are and how many are credible. But there are leads. Let's hope one or more pans out soon.

I'll say it again: This case is far from cold.

No match in database for DNA evidence on gloves found 2 miles from home

What is a cold case? What Is a Cold Case and How Are They Solved?
 
  • #36,539
Not necessarily. There is not a lot of blood on her porch and the further you go past the nook onto the walkway the more spaced out her blood drops get.
To me it seems like a lot of blood. Crazy how we all see things differently. I don't see it as can't survive this much loss quantity of blood but it seems sizable for an elderly woman.
 
  • #36,540
Sorry if I’ve misstated grief. I hope that they remain hopeful because we don’t know she hasn’t survived. Not at this point. If they’re fearful, if we’re fearful, that’s understandable.

It’s completely okay, I hope I didn’t come across rude, I meant no disrespect. I think grief is a very important subject, we are so scared as a society to talk about dying, death and grief. The media unfortunately continues to perpetuate the stages of grief myth. I think the only media person who doesn’t is Anderson Cooper. We have a long way to go. Thanks for being open to learning more about grief.
 

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