• #38,881
What are you basing your analysis on? Do you have firearm training or are you basing your comment on criminals portrayed in Movies or TV?
Just asking because I happen to feel that this is not the perp’s first rodeo and that it is definitely an appendix carry.
We can agree to disagree, not being critical of your opinion but just trying to understand your viewpoint.
My opinion only
JMO as a long time gun owner and concealed carrier - appendix carry is usually concealed underneath clothing, using an inside the waistband holster or a belly band. Usually, appendix carry is used for smaller pistols for comfort and concealment.

Maybe there's one out there, but I've never seen an appendix carry holster exposed like in the photos. They are worn underneath pants, and held in place by clips or belts, or in the case of belly bands, elastic girdle-like bands that are worn on the body underneath clothing. The idea is to not only have the pistol handy, but to conceal it well so that its outline is not visible through clothing.

My opinion is that the unidentified individual is indulging in some kind of sexual symbolism by this unconventional carry mode.

Just my opinion and experience.
 
  • #38,882
  • #38,883
BBM There's the hole right there. A test is also a warning. He has no idea if he was seen. SOOOOOO, a dry run makes less sense to me. JMO
This makes me wonder too if it is possible after the first visit the perp stayed in the area to see if there would be a police response? Like perhaps he wanted to see if not only did the nest camera woke and alerted NG but also if she ever saw the footage? Did her children? He probably figured if they did there would be a notable reaction to it, including from her son and daughters.

Perhaps he used a scanner to listen to LE and any 911 calls, news reports or he looked over police reports posted online afterwards? Perhaps he knew someone close to NG and through them, with or without them knowing the perp’s intentions were, was able to gain insight into whether the victim had noticed or reported anything since the night he first visited.

Maybe it was this was one step he took to decide whether or not he would give himself the green light to carry on with the abduction or abort it altogether because the risks of alerting someone and being caught were too high.

Or perhaps he knew somehow beforehand that NG no longer had a subscription and thus expected that by the time anyone knew she was missing the recording wouldn’t be available anymore.

Just my own thoughts or speculation
 
  • #38,884
Is this regarding with the images I posted? If so, they were not altered or manipulated. However, I'm not denying that the appearance of some kind of three-pronged object might something to do with some kind of shadow effect or delay in the footage. I just thought it was interesting.

Here are screenshots from this footage posted on X by Kash Patel where the same thing appears for a split second. Hopefully that helps? If not, feel free to remove again of course.
So hard to tell if it’s video pixel noise or an object. I looked up signal jammers and such things do exist. They have antennas on top and can also be homemade by tech knowledged people. Maybe the guy is more sophisticated than first thought.
 
  • #38,885
Thank you for pointing this out. I overlooked the article.

This might be one (just one) of the reasons we are seeing No Trespassing signs going up on NG property today.

I stand by my earlier comment on them self deploying and acting independently of LE even creating a system for leads. Not good and disappointing. But I’m so used to seeing this happen unfortunately in missing person cases. The SAR team’s LE does request rarely give interviews. They are in and out. No fanfare. IMO



According to Brian S. Trascher with The United Cajun Navy, one certified search and rescue volunteer is in Tucson assessing needs for the search at the request of local volunteer groups.

According to Trascher, the United Cajun Navy has submitted a capabilities statement to the FBI and sheriff in Tucson, but have not been requested to help in their search.

Trascher said the Guthrie family has also not requested their assistance.

Well, IMO, if the family hasn't asked, then they need to now.
 
  • #38,886
I don't know who did what and I'm not a local but I'm a human and I think all of this constant backstory drama is awful. Whoever is behind it should be ashamed of themselves for using NGs tragedy as a platform to further their agenda(s). The Guthrie family has enough grief to negotiate.

I've seen le attacked many times

Sure. Starts talking about it around 30:30.

Yes, the idea of someone who has peripheral involvement in the crime, being granted immunity if they come forward to divulge information and "rat out" the others who are involved.

✨Yes, that is what Brian Entin was told, and what the man is informing him about. Exactly what I have been opining about for the last couple of days!
 
  • #38,887
Thank you for pointing this out. I overlooked the article.

This might be one (just one) of the reasons we are seeing No Trespassing signs going up on NG property today.

I stand by my earlier comment on them self deploying and acting independently of LE even creating a system for leads. Not good and disappointing. But I’m so used to seeing this happen unfortunately in missing person cases. The SAR team’s LE does request rarely give interviews. They are in and out. No fanfare. IMO



According to Brian S. Trascher with The United Cajun Navy, one certified search and rescue volunteer is in Tucson assessing needs for the search at the request of local volunteer groups.

According to Trascher, the United Cajun Navy has submitted a capabilities statement to the FBI and sheriff in Tucson, but have not been requested to help in their search.

Trascher said the Guthrie family has also not requested their assistance.

This sheriff will not agree that another group will come into his territory and maybe find NG. IMO
 
  • #38,888
Law enforcement changing their position on offering a reward is not a positive sign for the state of the investigation.

The amount of tips has not been an issue, but the quality is obviously lacking.

The danger here is that this encourages more of the same, but obviously they believe the upside outweighs that risk.

This never had anything to do with the family’s willingness to pay. It’s strategy, plain and simple.
The Guthrie's wanted to offer it on day one (even though they took a heck of a lot of flack from SM about SG being so rich and only a $25K reward) but LE/FBI begged them not to do it so they wouldn't flood or overpower the tip line.

I think at this point, fearing she may be deceased, the Guthrie's have decided as a family to offer the reward for her return regardless. If a person has information regarding Nancy's location, they would have to know something about the crime itself.

That's a lot of money and I hope it generates a reliable lead.

MOO
 
  • #38,889
What are you basing your analysis on? Do you have firearm training or are you basing your comment on criminals portrayed in Movies or TV?
Just asking because I happen to feel that this is not the perp’s first rodeo and that it is definitely an appendix carry.
We can agree to disagree, not being critical of your opinion but just trying to understand your viewpoint.
My opinion only
i am basing it on the appendix is on your lower right quadrant. The gun holster is covering and in his CROTCH. JMO
 
  • #38,890
  • #38,891
JMO as a long time gun owner and concealed carrier - appendix carry is usually concealed underneath clothing, using an inside the waistband holster or a belly band. Usually, appendix carry is used for smaller pistols for comfort and concealment.

Maybe there's one out there, but I've never seen an appendix carry holster exposed like in the photos. They are worn underneath pants, and held in place by clips or belts, or in the case of belly bands, elastic girdle-like bands that are worn on the body underneath clothing. The idea is to not only have the pistol handy, but to conceal it well so that its outline is not visible through clothing.

My opinion is that the unidentified individual is indulging in some kind of sexual symbolism by this unconventional carry mode.

Just my opinion and experience.
I don't know. I think he wasn't used to carrying a gun openly and thought it would just be easier to grab it right in front like that. And it's a cheap holster, so maybe it got shifted to the middle as he moved.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

But if you do want to go the Freudian route about the pistol, what do you make of the fact that he used a revolver holster that is much too large for his semiauto handgun?
 
  • #38,892
  • #38,893
It was crime scene taped off during the investigation.

It was turned over to the family about February 3rd.

It is the family's decision how to deal with NG's home and none of our business when they fence.

To say the family was shameful in how they dealt with the property after it was turned over to them is unnecessary, imo.

They have not been going in the home from what I can see only had LE hand a few small things to their representative.

Fencing off represents the stage of their dealing with the acceptance that this is not going to be a quick rescue and matters with the home settled after.

My heart goes out out to them that they have had to fence off NG's home, the finality of that, the sight of that lovely home of their dear Mother fenced off.

SG is brilliant and has means and background in law and crime but she and the rest if the family are suffering and deserve our grace as respectful onlookers.

Imo
And it's the home the siblings grew up in. Treasured memories have now been tarnished.
 
  • #38,894
This also suggests that this guy isn't the bumbling dolt that many folks read into that porch video. To do what he did, and to spend that much time in and around the home that night and other nights (evidently), and to not leave enough of his own DNA to even sample, suggests an expert skillset in depravity.

JMO.

I don’t care how prepared somebody is, when LE said they had DNA in the house that they were testing, whether it was true or a clever bluff, the perp had to have been stressed and on his toes ready to bail. If he’s sitting on his couch with no care in the world, that’s one hell of a call.

I think this guy was petrified when LE said they had unknown DNA. If nobody saw a change in demeanor, this guy is probably a loner with a seasonal job of some sort that allows him to be undetected.

MOO
 
  • #38,895
But how does the chance to get 1MIL$
help anyone figure out her exact location?
I’m glad the Guthrie’s are offering the reward. I think it will bring people out to search. Maybe up the hill, more rural area, park with lots of brush, cacti. Places to hide NG.

I believe NG will be found, I hope it doesn’t take too long. I feel for the Guthries, wanting their Mom back so badly.

JMO
 
  • #38,896
Long time reader, but I had to register to share some theories I haven’t seen much here or anywhere else online.

These deal with two main issues: cameras and the timeline (40+ minutes). IMO major possibilities are being overlooked in both cases. When something doesn’t make sense, that usually means we just haven’t found the right explanation yet. IMO the explanation I will offer below makes a lot of seemingly confusing data points fit perfectly.

This is all just my opinion based on things we have heard.

Topic #1: Cameras

First, cameras: IMO this guy WANTED to be seen. In fact, it was a key part of his strategy. Both times, but especially the first time he showed up. As someone who has these types of cameras as part of my home security system and understands them extremely well, it actually makes perfect sense that he would want to trigger them AND appear in the image.

Think of a camera as an early warning system as much as it is a camera. Some people silence them all night and rely on them to provide retroactive evidence of a crime. Others want the alerts to wake them up so they have early warning of danger. Some do both. That makes all the difference in this crime.

One of the underappreciated aspects of Blink, Nest, Ring, and the like is that in addition to being cameras and microphones, they also act as perimeter annunciators. What I mean by that is that it is practically impossible to disable them without first triggering them, which sends an immediate alert to someone’s phone (sometimes multiple people’s phones, depending on the setup). You can rip the camera off the wall and destroy it but it’s already too late: it has served its purpose and alerted the owner, who is possibly now awake and taking any number of actions. The criminal’s element of surprise is gone and their presence is known. That is, unless the homeowner silences alerts at night and just checks in the morning (as most people do because they don’t want to wake up every time a cat walks across their porch in the middle of the night).

In this scenario, he didn’t care about being filmed per se. He’s well disguised anyway and likely assumes he will be filmed somewhere by a camera he missed. IMO his concern was 100% about whether the alerts would wake Nancy up before he got inside and spoil his plan.

He needed the element of surprise. An 84 year old woman is definitely going to dial 911 if she is awakened by a break- in in progress. Even if he gets her out before police arrive, the police are now aware of a break-in/kidnapping in progress and will be swarming the entire neighborhood. The criminal might even drive past a responding officer, who will afterwards recall seeing the vehicle leaving the neighborhood as they responded. They might even call it in and have another officer stop that vehicle in case it is the perp. Risk goes way, way up if Nancy wakes up at any point before he gets inside and can stop her from calling 911.

Let’s assume this new timeline of photos is correct: he was there beforehand, likely an earlier date. I have thought since the photos first emerged that they must have been taken on different nights. Most people have focused on the shoes, lack of backpack, lack of holster… but the first thing I noticed was the distinct lack of a shadow (his shadow is clearly visible on the night he wore the backpack and holster, but absent in the photo where he is not wearing them).

This suggests a pitch black night in the earlier timeframe photo, perfect for recon. He wears his same gear that he’ll wear later because he is doing a dry run and wants it to feel as much like the real thing as possible, and he also does not want to be identified. He also wants to appear as menacing as possible for the camera as mentioned above.

He has to know what to expect, if anything, when the camera is triggered. And he would understand that triggering it is unavoidable.

Even if the criminal has a wifi jammer most systems will then alert the owner that all the modules are down. So they’re now awake at a minimum and likely to notice sounds outside or even to look out the windows to investigate, because that is suspicious.

These alerts could very well be loud and wake the person up. The person might then turn lights on in the house, go to live view to see what is going on, or dial 911 or text a family member depending on the circumstances. Or grab a firearm that they have for protection. Maybe all of the above. The criminal has no idea what is going on, if anything at all. Almost all of these systems will send an immediate thumbnail before recording so that even if the camera is disabled before the video is uploaded to the cloud you have an image of whatever set it off on your phone.

IMO this guy is almost posing for the camera on the earlier date. He needs to find out: what happens if the camera alerts AND the image in the thumbnail or on the phone is of a terrifying man in a mask and gloves? Notice he stands far enough away that you can see he looks terrifying but can’t make out much in terms of ID. It’s no good if it alerts and the image is some strange blur or nothing at all, because those of us who have these cameras see that stuff all the time. Cats, rabbits, the wind.. All cause triggers. You’re not raising the alarm so to speak, for every single time it notifies you of motion.

He needs the person inside to see a central casting bad guy so that they will react however they are going to react. That reaction will then be taken into account in whatever plans he has for the actual night of the kidnapping. Thus the need for a 2-part plan.

Now imagine you are 84. Your phone alerts and wakes you up in the middle of the night. You see THAT on your screen. You are almost certainly going to react. You likely dial 911. You turn on lights in the house because you are definitely not going to want to sit in the dark until cops come. You text or call family or neighbors for help right after 911. In short, ruckus ensues.

Or maybe your family also gets the alerts. It’s not yet 2AM on a Saturday. It’s not impossible that someone else also gets the alert who is actually still awake, watching TV, playing video games, whatever. They see that nightmare on grandma’s front door, or mom’s front door. Obviously action will be taken of some type.

So he poses to ensure that he has triggered the camera, then quickly retreats down the street into the brush somewhere to hide. Do lights come on? Do police arrive? Does a dog bark? Is there any activity at all?

Hmm, nothing. Nothing happens at all he notices. So he slinks away into the darkness, confident that the cameras are no real threat. The biggest threat of the cameras is that they wake Nancy up before he can get inside, meaning 911 is called.

So he waits a couple weeks and watches off and on. Are more visible security measures taken? Do new cameras appear?

Now, here’s the thing: he is likely feeling better in terms of not alerting anyone inside based on previous recon. But that could be a one-off. Maybe she silenced her phone that night but not this one. So he needs a quick repeat on the night of.

This is where the timeline comes in.

Topic #2: Timeline on the Night of the Kidnapping

I do not believe at all that he was inside the house for 40+ minutes as we keep hearing almost everywhere. That makes zero sense for a kidnapping, where every moment spent at the scene in contact with the victim= increased risk.

In this scenario I have described he returns a couple of weeks later, fairly confident that the cameras pose no real threat. He likely now assumes Nancy has her phone on silent so that every time a cat or other animal walks by at night she doesn’t wake up.

However, he has to make sure, just in case she woke up the next morning (from the earlier recon) and saw that image and NOW takes more security steps, such as having her alerts on loud enough to wake her up. Maybe a neighbor or someone else is also now getting them as a backup. He doesn’t know, so he goes up to the porch, knowing the camera will activate. Of course he ducks his head just in case (why over expose himself to being filmed?).

This is a test… What will happen?

The lantana also serves a purpose: it looks even more scary/wrong. If anyone is seeing someone do that they are raising the alarm 100% for sure. It escalates from a simple prowler on the porch to likely intent to cause harm.

But nothing happens. He slinks to the shadows again and waits. No lights come on. No cops show up. This could account for a solid 15-20 minutes of that 40 minute timeline we keep hearing about. Again, there is no real rush here. If he is detected he will escape into the pitch black and brush unseen. If he is not detected then it’s like he just arrived. It’s likely he has a getaway driver close by but not so close that if police suddenly come flying down the street his car isn’t sitting there parked suspiciously. It’s not like he can hop into a car and take off 2 houses down at 2:30 AM or so when the police are responding to a suspicious man trying to break into a house.

We have also heard about a second motion detection after 2, about 15 minutes or so before Nancy’s pacemaker disconnected from her watch. This could be the kidnapper(s) proceeding to gain entry into the house, meaning they would have only been inside for 10 minutes or less in total, which makes a lot more sense. One restrains her while the other goes and gets the car OR signals the getaway driver that it’s time, which obviously would not be in the driveway to begin with in case their camera test resulted in their presence being detected. So that takes a few minutes, as does getting her into the car, situated, and leaving.

If you take all that into account, we could be talking 5-10 minutes or even less in the house in total. If they were there for 40 minutes they would have cleaned up all the blood drops. Instead, IMO, they got in as quietly as possible after making sure the cameras didn’t wake anyone up, and got her out as quickly as possible, because who knows what little hidden cameras or security items they could miss. Kidnappers act fast. They don’t stick around the scene any longer than needed once the crime is in motion.

Just my theory, but I think it explains this person’s actions. Far from being a bumbling amateur, this was IMO a clever test to see what alerts, if any, would result from the camera before proceeding into the house.
This is such a great theory concerning the cameras and the time inside the house. Thank you and welcome to Websleuths.
 
  • #38,897
  • #38,898
Sorry, the article I read, but didn't link is here.

Per the article
The Guthrie family and friends requested the help of the Cajun Navy. Volunteers from the organization stated that an advance strike team will participate in the search.


I may be the only one that feels this way, but I’m speaking it. I’m NOT a fan of theirs! They do not respect the victim and self promote inmho! And really, one more platform for tips sounds crazy to me.

Let me tell you why—- they helped in the case of RJD who everybody knew had been a victim of child abuse and sex abuse. He is 11 or 12 if I remember right. They find him hiding in a camper, and make that child pose for pictures with the two who found him and then precede to share those pics with the media like he was a prize! In his moment of trauma, they hugged him, and he looked not thrilled about that and posted those pics and his face EVERYWHERE! Then gloated and gloated about it to all the media! It’s not about you sirs! MOO

Post in thread 'OK - “RJ”. 12, -FOUND ALIVE - Mother Kimberly Cole/Step Dad George Cole (died) arrested'
Found Alive - OK - “RJ”. 12, -FOUND ALIVE - Mother Kimberly Cole/Step Dad George Cole (died) arrested
 
  • #38,899
Bring me up to date: was any money or bitcoin actually paid out? I know there was a man arrested for a fake ransom note.
I know Harvey Levin talked about putting $300 into the acct to see if he would get a response. But I don’t know if this was ever done. Maybe someone else knows? JMO
 
  • #38,900
Some people never subscribe or plan to subscribe. They only want the ability to see who is at the door when the doorbell rings.
Agree 100%. With her mobility issues, being able to "answer" the door without hobbling to the door would be a terrific help.
 

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