• #42,301
This is an interesting article which talks about the “fight or flight” response to a threat. They have also added freeze and fawn to stress response syndrome. I wonder which response Nancy Guthrie may have utilized.
That’s a good article. I enjoyed reading it. Having been in a collision not of my choosing about a year ago, I can relate. It makes me sick to think Nancy had to experience any of it. Even if my husband walks up behind me I either jump or scream. He has to let me know he is near me. I keep praying someone has Nancy safe somewhere but I am getting vibes from the sheriff that they have evidence she has passed. Hope i am wrong.
 
  • #42,302
I was wondering the same thing
When someone is arrested for any reason, be it a traffic offense or felony, LE will take note of all scars/marks/tattoos. Whatever tattoos he has on his body right now are already known to LE so I don't believe covering up would be effective.
 
  • #42,303
Sorry if this has been covered, but has there been any discussion of a system such as Life Alert at NG's house? One might think that with her age and mobility challenges, having a system installed in case she fell might be a good idea.

If there was a system like that, would the perp have to know that it existed?

Also, I can't take any credit for this idea - a friend outside of WS mentioned it and I thought it was interesting.

MOO.
Yes, I think I remember Life Alert being discussed. I don’t think she had it, just her phone.

We got my Dad Life Alert, it was just a button on a lanyard, satellite connection( I believe), but needed to be charged everyday, so fell by the wayside quickly.

It did have a contract for service. It wasn’t something that needed to be installed, just came in a box, pay subscription with a code, charge it, it worked.

While we were using it somewhat regularly, Life Alert often called me to tell me to charge the device! They said he had been out of connectivity, to check on him. He’s 99 now, keeps phone with him, like NG did.

JMO
 
  • #42,304
No worries @Lebowski , I brought up pupil distance hundreds of pages back and was schooled as well! I love WS for all the knowledge packed into one internet discourse.
i worry now about pupil distance (as well as my "center of the eye" landmark, which i guess means the same thing), because the pupils and irises move around, and it strikes me as tricky to "eyeball" where the center of the eye is (pun intended) without using them. ... maybe this is why AI told me the inner corner of the eye is preferred.
 
  • #42,305
I'm not sure if K9s were brought in IMMEDIATELY but there was at least one (TMZ - Border Patrol K9) brought in by border patrol after ransom note #1 was received. Their dogs are often cross trained in multiple different "fields" of scent detection.

My girl specifically is trained for live tracking, so the sooner she can get on a scent the better. K9s trained for search and rescue not only work on the trail, they also can find objects with the scent on it which often helps confirm you are getting somewhere. My girl doesn't focus heavily/too long on "dropped" items so you've got a real quick window with her to note it and flag someone to get to it. The science of scent is incredibly fascinating (to me at least) but based on wind patterns and where a scent can "pool" (settling into crevices/dips/brushy areas/etc) you can get an idea of the direction often. If the wind is insane it complicates things. Other weather can enhance/lessen the scent. Thanks to where we live, my girl has trained in crawfish ponds and a foot or two of water, so it can really depend on the surfaces the dog has trained on, as well as the age of the track. Sooner a dog hits the ground running, the better obviously.

My 2nd K9 is training for HRD (Human Remains Detection). He's an idiot mutt and is insanely high energy which is what you want in a dog to cut loose to make a body recovery. These dogs often work a specifically outlined area and they usually run the perimeter and slowly circle in to "clear" an area. These k9s aren't looking for anything but the scent of HUMAN decomposition. Not dead animals, not rotting food, human decomposition only. I have seen dogs in boats locate bodies under water from the gases that come up out of the water, I've watched a Malinois damn near climb a tree to get to training remains located 12-15 feet up off the ground in the tree branches.

Like I mentioned above, before I started rambling about k9s (SORRRRRYYYY Y'ALL) a lot of military and LE handled dogs are cross trained. Our organization chooses not to cross train because we've found that our bloodhounds actually get pretty depressed for several days after making a body recovery. German shepherds, Malinois, Dutch Shepards don't get bothered as much because they are motivated by a different reward, which is why you see more of these dogs in military & LE. Less dogs to house/feed/train. But a bloodhound will always be the superior tracker ;)

To go back to the point of NG's case, not only could/would tracking dogs have tracked for NG, they also could pick up a scent off anything a perp dropped/touched/walked through. As long as they've got a starting scent, dogs will go. It's on the handler to decipher their signals. My girl gets really upset when she loses the scent (ex: scent took off in a car) and it's obvious she's lost it. She also does a "proximity alert" when she is right on top of an abundance of scent and she can't quite pinpoint where she wants to go because the scent is so strong and overwhelming. I've watched her look at her "find" straight on but she waits on her nose to confirm the person she is staring at is the one she's looking for. Just because my k9 isn't trained for HRD doesn't mean she doesn't sometimes make a recovery and not a "rescue". You just never know.

At this point with NG if we see dogs again I would expect to see them in a very specific location that is NOT NGs home. Whether they would be looking for suspects, a body (eek), or evidence, at this point they wouldn't be combing through anywhere other than a place they had good reason to believe one of those things would be & it would look pretty different than what an initial k9 search/track would look like.

I am so so sorry this got so long. I've either had too much coffee, not enough sleep, not enough adderall or not enough coffee. Only time will tell.

Thank you for your important service. Nanos explained on February 2nd that canines from Border Patrol had worked tirelessly all day yesterday (February 1st - the day Nancy was reported missing) and last night.
Also, he mentioned LE used infrared, heat sensors, drones, and aircraft.
 
  • #42,306
  • #42,307
  • #42,308
Random Things that puzzle me:
If she was asleep, how did the blood spatter containing mucus end up outside her front door? If this occurred while she was asleep, did she get up and answer the door and get punched in the face? If they pushed her back inside, disabled her and took her out through the garage in the trunk of a car, that would explain the blood and no footage of her exiting the house—I would think LE could rule out exit paths from the footage they have.

If she was asleep, and rudely awakened, could she have been startled and had a heart attack and died?

How do the kidnappers think they are going to get the money and escape?

I think the demands for 100,000.00 was an idiot who was trying to jump on the bandwagon.

Jen Coffendafer (sp) flat out named the son-in-law and said she had fbi source that she trusted. I found that odd. The next day the sheriff said info from streamers was incorrect. Did the FBI asks her to do that to “rattle the cage” so to speak?

Two days later, LE impounded a vehicle from the family.

Someone mentioned that the Tucson Rock and Gem show was happening around that time; said Guthrie’s $$$ came from gemstones. Said neighbor was involved with the show.

I typically think LE has info they’re not releasing but I think an arrest would have been made by now—but without a body—can’t make a case.

I tend to think it may be a woman; that mustache looks like it was drawn on by magic marker. Hard to tell with the low quality. Would a man wear a pistol pointing at his crotch? Odd placement. Perhaps inexperience? Would be odd for a woman to do this.

Anyway, just some thoughts. So far the only fact I’m aware of is the video and the car being impounded.

Just some thoughts.
 
  • #42,309
“We knew that at that time, we believed wholeheartedly that those gloves belonged to a restaurant and guess what? The owner of the glove, we found working at a restaurant across the street.”


“It has nothing to do with the case,” Nanos added.

 
  • #42,310
  • #42,311
Sorry, replying to my own post here, but just wanted to add that it's unfortunate that Nanos was relatively specific as to where the DNA was from. You just know people are now sleuthing the restaurant, its owners and employees, and god help them if one of them looks like he could be Lantana Man.
Seemed a bit defensive to me, as he said:

“There was some talk and discussion that it was police officers out in the field just discarding [the gloves], that is so far from the truth,” Nanos said
“We knew that at that time, we believed wholeheartedly that those gloves belonged to a restaurant and guess what? The owner of the glove, we found working at a restaurant across the street.”

“It has nothing to do with the case,” he added.
.


Still not the best messaging. I don't understand the need to explain some things in detail, yet say you're not commenting to maintain the integrity of the case. We have a PIO member on here that can perhaps further comment on this.
 
  • #42,312
LE knew immediately it was a serious crime scene. The Sheriff himself arrived almost immediately after the LE phone call about the state of house. It was a huge alert to people in Tucson that the Sheriff himself was there so soon after the phone call on a Sunday afternoon.

On Feb 2nd, TMZ reported that "the Pima County Sheriff's Office noted on their briefing today that, "disturbing or concerning circumstances were found at the home, prompting homicide detectives to assist in the investigation."

www.tmz.com

'TODAY' Anchor Savannah Guthrie’s Mom Missing

Authorities in Arizona are searching for Nancy Guthrie, the mother of 'TODAY' anchor Savannah Guthrie, who was reported missing under what authorities are calling concerning circumstances.
www.tmz.com
www.tmz.com

Also,

"We saw some things at the home that were concerning to us. We believe now after we processed that crime scene that we do in fact have a crime scene. That we do in fact have a crime."
- Sheriff Nanos / 02-02-26

"There were circumstances on scene, um, that we believe are suspicious in nature."
- Homicide Unit Sergeant, David Stivers / 02-02-26
 
  • #42,313
Anything going on with the case in the last week or so moving towards any kind of solution?

Over 30 days into an elderly medically compromised missing persons case with no apparent leads but now it's time to just go to work:
“I think the investigators are definitely closer,” he stressed in an NBC interview. “We got a lot of intel, a lot of leads, but now it’s time to just go to work.” - Sheriff Nanos

They are "definitely closer" now according to Nanos.

 
  • #42,314
Also,

"We saw some things at the home that were concerning to us. We believe now after we processed that crime scene that we do in fact have a crime scene. That we do in fact have a crime."
- Sheriff Nanos / 02-02-26

"There were circumstances on scene, um, that we believe are suspicious in nature."
- Homicide Unit Sergeant, David Stivers / 02-02-26
"There were circumstances on scene, um, that we believe are suspicious in nature."
- Homicide Unit Sergeant, David Stivers / 02-02-26
Also,

"We saw some things at the home that were concerning to us. We believe now after we processed that crime scene that we do in fact have a crime scene. That we do in fact have a crime."
- Sheriff Nanos / 02-02-26

"There were circumstances on scene, um, that we believe are suspicious in nature."
- Homicide Unit Sergeant, David Stivers / 02-02-26
Didn't the world know it was a crime scene? An 84 yr old woman just doesn't walk away.
 
  • #42,315
"There were circumstances on scene, um, that we believe are suspicious in nature."
- Homicide Unit Sergeant, David Stivers / 02-02-26

Didn't the world know it was a crime scene? An 84 yr old woman just doesn't walk away.

They assumed based on what they saw, but it's still technically a missing persons case to this date.
 
  • #42,316
Can you imagine if either of these guys, CP or LD, legitimately had *nothing* to do with NG's case?

I can't imagine how terrible that would be for them and their families. There's no easy way to come back from that.

MOO.

I agree.

Can you imagine how the first person targeted - who has been a part of Nancy's family for 20 years - must feel? To have Social Media crucify them when they weren't even labeled a Person of Interest by LE - and all the while they were dealing with the sudden absence of their family member?

There's no easy way to come back from all of that either.
 
  • #42,317
I do not have an opinion as to whether gentleman interviewed is potential perp but his layers of clothing on a hot day in AZ are interesting to me as were obvious layers of clothing worn by Porch Man. I even posted about that after video was released, thinking Porch Man must have gotten hot with all that on. Only my musings.
At the end of January in Tucson, it was cold enough to be comfortable wearing layers. Tucson can get cold at night in the winter and warm up 30 to 40 degrees in temperature during the day. JMO
 
  • #42,318
One possiblity-she’s on psychoactive meds. Situationally or long term…
Agree. Some meds can easily flatten people's affect. JMO
 
  • #42,319
Can you imagine if either of these guys, CP or LD, legitimately had *nothing* to do with NG's case?

I can't imagine how terrible that would be for them and their families. There's no easy way to come back from that.

MOO.
LD is a convicted felon that is currently out on lenient parole and has another current pending case for drugs and possession of a firearm by a felon. I don't feel too "terrible" for him if they went by a federal warrant. CP with his family at the time has my understanding.
 
  • #42,320
Random Things that puzzle me:
If she was asleep, how did the blood spatter containing mucus end up outside her front door? If this occurred while she was asleep, did she get up and answer the door and get punched in the face? If they pushed her back inside, disabled her and took her out through the garage in the trunk of a car, that would explain the blood and no footage of her exiting the house—I would think LE could rule out exit paths from the footage they have.
BBM She was carried out after choking on her own blood and secretions in the house. Dripped on the walkway. Do we know there really was saliva or sputum mixed in? I dont think that would be unusual..JMO
 
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