NC NC - Asha Degree, 9, Shelby, 14 Feb 2000 #2

[Anance]

just curious on what the context Asha had for being outside at 2 am while it was storming.

Nobody knows. We need to just accept this and stop wondering. She was out there, for reasons.

Could this be a racially motivated crime of opportunity?

 

[sunflowermomma]

I've been thinking a lot about the fact that Asha was 9, and out in a storm in the middle of the night.

This is purely anecdotal and MOO. I used to nanny for a family with a 9 y/o and 11 y/o albeit in a more urban area. They lived a few doors down and would stay at my house when their mom worked late. The 9 y/o was terrified of the dark. I would be in the next room visible through the open door and he would try and sneak out and sit with me because just being in a dark room alone was scary!

However, when mom got home around midnight, he was totally comfortable walking down the block to his house by himself and it made him feel like a big boy to go by himself (mom and I would be watching on our porches, don't worry lol).

I think that to a little kid, being afraid of the dark can be about monsters in the closet or under the bed, but maybe the fear doesn't apply the same to a familiar outdoor space you've seen a million times with mom or dad in the daylight. I wonder if Asha's fear of the dark is sort of a red herring when it comes to the fact that she was outside at night.

 

[bearfossils]

I've been thinking a lot about the fact that Asha was 9, and out in a storm in the middle of the night.

This is purely anecdotal and MOO. I used to nanny for a family with a 9 y/o and 11 y/o albeit in a more urban area. They lived a few doors down and would stay at my house when their mom worked late. The 9 y/o was terrified of the dark. I would be in the next room visible through the open door and he would try and sneak out and sit with me because just being in a dark room alone was scary!

However, when mom got home around midnight, he was totally comfortable walking down the block to his house by himself and it made him feel like a big boy to go by himself (mom and I would be watching on our porches, don't worry lol).

I think that to a little kid, being afraid of the dark can be about monsters in the closet or under the bed, but maybe the fear doesn't apply the same to a familiar outdoor space you've seen a million times with mom or dad in the daylight. I wonder if Asha's fear of the dark is sort of a red herring when it comes to the fact that she was outside at night.

I couldn’t agree more. I think the fallacy we have to recognize with this case is approaching the possibilities of why Asha left the house from an adult mindset. As a child, I was a well-behaved, straight A student with extracurriculars, much like Asha. I also had night terrors, and often needed a television or a small light on at night, even when older, because of the anxiety I had about nightmares and sleeping. Even still, there were a few times where I snuck out of my window in the middle of the night, just to walk around the block. I couldn’t give you a good reason why I did it, other than it made me feel a little older and more independent. Never did it occur to me that something bad could happen to me. Our brains operate differently at that age, and children have an internal logic all their own.

That being said, it’s worth noting that before her disappearance, Asha’s class read a book (The Whipping Boy by Sid Fleischman) where children run away from their home and go on an adventure. IIRC, she also was upset about her performance in a recent basketball game. Maybe she felt adventuring out into the night would make her feel brave. Maybe she didn’t know it would storm that night, but she went out anyway, so she could feel more mature than she was. It’s hard to put ourselves into her shoes when most of us haven’t been children for many years.

I’m not saying I don’t believe she could have been lured or enticed out in some way, but I think it’s just as possible that she left the house that night for completely innocent reasons of her own and run into foul play in the course of the night.

 

[Tower]

I couldn’t agree more. I think the fallacy we have to recognize with this case is approaching the possibilities of why Asha left the house from an adult mindset. As a child, I was a well-behaved, straight A student with extracurriculars, much like Asha. I also had night terrors, and often needed a television or a small light on at night, even when older, because of the anxiety I had about nightmares and sleeping. Even still, there were a few times where I snuck out of my window in the middle of the night, just to walk around the block. I couldn’t give you a good reason why I did it, other than it made me feel a little older and more independent. Never did it occur to me that something bad could happen to me. Our brains operate differently at that age, and children have an internal logic all their own.

That being said, it’s worth noting that before her disappearance, Asha’s class read a book (The Whipping Boy by Sid Fleischman) where children run away from their home and go on an adventure. IIRC, she also was upset about her performance in a recent basketball game. Maybe she felt adventuring out into the night would make her feel brave. Maybe she didn’t know it would storm that night, but she went out anyway, so she could feel more mature than she was. It’s hard to put ourselves into her shoes when most of us haven’t been children for many years.

I’m not saying I don’t believe she could have been lured or enticed out in some way, but I think it’s just as possible that she left the house that night for completely innocent reasons of her own and run into foul play in the course of the night.

Very good points. I feel like her parents would understand her motivations better than anyone else, and we don’t hear much from them (which I fully understand because it would not bring her home).

Yet, even as a parent who is very, very close to my kids, once in a while they would baffle me with their behavior. They would do things unpredictably and totally out of character, often after a major life event, when moving schools or starting puberty, some some kind of big shift in their lives. Something like a huge disappointment losing a basketball game seems small to us as adults, but it could have triggered uncharacteristic behavior from Asha. Just speculation.

 

[Shade13]

yeah its a lot.

I wonder about the sports game that Asha played in.
Usually there is a lot of people floating around team sport activities.
I wonder if she was lurred at the game by these girls for some kind of late night fun?

That's actually what I think. They told her they would meet her late that morning, to get herself up and meet that at the road. Then once they got there, I think Asha got weary and knew something wasn't right. Which led to the people in the vehicle dragging her in the car, as noted by the 2 witnesses.

As far as the truck driver that seen her, I think that fits in as well. The daughter (or someone) told her it wouldnt take long, they would meet her at 4:10 am on the dot (just as an example). so she didnt bother taking a coat or anything...maybe her coat was in the living room, and she didnt want to risk waking her parents. Regardless, she sneaked out; went to the spot and the truck driver seen her, where she was calmly waiting on the daughter to pick her up. And she ran away, and maybe this caused a delay in actually meeting up with them.

Regardless when she did eventually find them, something in her gut told her to not get in that car. Was an unidentified man riding along with them? Maybe their father...a pervert? Or maybe some younger man that was friends with the daughter. Maybe someone around 19 or 18...and he was a perv...or maybe he just had a cruel joke he wanted to play. Or...maybe there was no male at all...high school girls are just capable as being mean cruel as young men...and maybe it was the daughter behind the whole thing.

Whatever the case, she was either accidentally or intentionally killed...the girl panicked and then the dad buried the body.

I know that's a lot of if's....but that makes so much more sense than a 9 year old girl sneaking out on a random night in the middle of awful weather only to get hit by a random driver.

 

[caribou_birdie]

Just finished reading this thread. No idea why Asha left home that night, not even going to speculate.

Still can't wrap my head around whether dad did it and daughters covered it or daughters did it and dad covered it. Text messages lead me to dad and daughters covered it up. Guy at the party throws a wrench in that theory.

One thing I feel for sure. Mom knows exactly what happened and she is the best angle LE have to crack the case.

 

[scrimpies]

If i remember correctly, the picture was found at the shed not in the backpack. I think the latest (from a couple of years back) was that the shed evidence which was found was not conclusive it was Asha's. There was also a hair tie and some candy wrappers found there.

As far as I can remember the little girls picture was never identified. However, her likeness to Asha is definitely curious.

To add to your point, the shed was huge and it was part of an upholstery business. It could have fallen out of a couch that was being recovered.

 

[sunflowermomma]

Another random thought. Ever seen the funny tiktok videos of kids taking a nap after school, then waking up at 6 PM in the winter months super confused because they have nap brain and think it's the next morning?

Wasn't the power out at some point that night so the clocks on the stove and microwave could've been off?

What if Asha didn't necessarily sleep walk, but woke up confused about what time it was and thought she had to meet the bus or something?

 

[cckp72]

Another random thought. Ever seen the funny tiktok videos of kids taking a nap after school, then waking up at 6 PM in the winter months super confused because they have nap brain and think it's the next morning?

Wasn't the power out at some point that night so the clocks on the stove and microwave could've been off?

What if Asha didn't necessarily sleep walk, but woke up confused about what time it was and thought she had to meet the bus or something?

I've thought this too, but then why not wake the brother up too since they shared a room and he would also be late for school.

 

[scrimpies]

Another random thought. Ever seen the funny tiktok videos of kids taking a nap after school, then waking up at 6 PM in the winter months super confused because they have nap brain and think it's the next morning?

Wasn't the power out at some point that night so the clocks on the stove and microwave could've been off?

What if Asha didn't necessarily sleep walk, but woke up confused about what time it was and thought she had to meet the bus or something?

Someone on Reddit had a similarish "out there" idea that others thought was dumb but I found interesting. The user said that if the Degrees were using a generator then Asha could have had carbon monoxide poisoning and been confused.

 

[cckp72]

Someone on Reddit had a similarish "out there" idea that others thought was dumb but I found interesting. The user said that if the Degrees were using a generator then Asha could have had carbon monoxide poisoning and been confused.

That is an interesting theory but I would definitely expect that the others in the home would be impacted, not just Asha. It's good thinking outside of the box!

 

[ninesevenpotatoes]

Here's some of my quick input on some of the most common theories:

"She ran away from home on her own will." The one police concluded, yet the one most doubt. The Degree family sounds nice, safe, and comforting. I doubt there would be anything shady going on at home that would drive her to run away. I also don't think she'd be so upset after losing the basketball game. Some mention the fact she and her class read a book where a main character runs away around the time of her disappearance, but I don't think she'd be that influenced by it. What 9 year old would run away, miles away from her home, in a dark storm?

"She was sleepwalking." Admittedly, this actually could be a decent theory. There are plenty of cases where sleepwalkers do insane or peculiar things during their trance state. However, I feel this theory would need more weight behind it. Did Asha have a history of sleepwalking beforehand? Why would it randomly start now? Did Asha wake up from sleepwalking when the truck driver noticed her?

"She thought she had to get ready for school." This also could be plausible, but needs more evidence. She only brought her backpack with limited supplies. Also, why would see leave home by herself without her family if she thought she had to go to school? I also find it interesting because if you look at the map regarding significant locations in her disappearance, you'll see she was walking in the opposite direction of her school. Was she disoriented and took a wrong turn? Her backpack was found farther away in the opposite direction as well, suggesting someone had placed it there after the fact.

(Map credit: Murdered: Asha Degree | Shelby, NC | Uncovered)

"She was lured out of the house." This is one of the main theories I believe, despite the lack of evidence. We know of the car Asha may have gotten into, and it just feels reasonable. It might've been someone Asha was familar or comfortable with, as most kidnappings are actually done by close people rather than complete strangers. It still doesn't explain why she went without much preparation. Some also believe one of the truck drivers who witnessed her might've been responsible for her abduction, and I do admit it could be plausible.

Which theory sounds most reasonable? What other ones do you have? I hope the Degree family is able to get justice some day.

 

[MamaSleuth5]

Here's some of my quick input on some of the most common theories:

"She ran away from home on her own will." The one police concluded, yet the one most doubt. The Degree family sounds nice, safe, and comforting. I doubt there would be anything shady going on at home that would drive her to run away. I also don't think she'd be so upset after losing the basketball game. Some mention the fact she and her class read a book where a main character runs away around the time of her disappearance, but I don't think she'd be that influenced by it. What 9 year old would run away, miles away from her home, in a dark storm?

"She was sleepwalking." Admittedly, this actually could be a decent theory. There are plenty of cases where sleepwalkers do insane or peculiar things during their trance state. However, I feel this theory would need more weight behind it. Did Asha have a history of sleepwalking beforehand? Why would it randomly start now? Did Asha wake up from sleepwalking when the truck driver noticed her?

"She thought she had to get ready for school." This also could be plausible, but needs more evidence. She only brought her backpack with limited supplies. Also, why would see leave home by herself without her family if she thought she had to go to school? I also find it interesting because if you look at the map regarding significant locations in her disappearance, you'll see she was walking in the opposite direction of her school. Was she disoriented and took a wrong turn? Her backpack was found farther away in the opposite direction as well, suggesting someone had placed it there after the fact.

View attachment 565601
(Map credit: Murdered: Asha Degree | Shelby, NC | Uncovered)

"She was lured out of the house." This is one of the main theories I believe, despite the lack of evidence. We know of the car Asha may have gotten into, and it just feels reasonable. It might've been someone Asha was familar or comfortable with, as most kidnappings are actually done by close people rather than complete strangers. It still doesn't explain why she went without much preparation. Some also believe one of the truck drivers who witnessed her might've been responsible for her abduction, and I do admit it could be plausible.

Which theory sounds most reasonable? What other ones do you have? I hope the Degree family is able to get justice some day.

Good thoughts IMO. Welcome to Websleuths, @ninesevenpotatoes !

 

[horselightning]

I do not believe she was lured out. Asha's brother said on Find out missing Asha was again upset about the ball game at church. She did not want to face her friends because she was blaming her self for the loss and ran away. Something happened to her when crossed paths with these folks. By the way it was not raining straight through or she soaked when people saw her walking on the road. Matter of fact the first man who saw her said it start to rain again and she ran off into the trees. The stuff n shed could be Asha's or could not. That she was full of couches and chairs were stored that upholstered and they could have fallen from it. I'm sure the pieces will come together. The Dedmon's are involved some how.

 

[RoseTree]

What a tell that picture is now. Maybe --- someone wanted the backpack to be found and connected to Asha, for reasons unknown. Not having a picture of her and the software from 25 years ago would not allow them to make one. So, they found a stock picture of a similar girl.

Iirc the girl has been identified and wasn’t related to the case. They believe the photo fell out of the cracks of a couch (shed owner has a furniture store)

 

[RoseTree]

I do not believe she was lured out. Asha's brother said on Find out missing Asha was again upset about the ball game at church. She did not want to face her friends because she was blaming her self for the loss and ran away. Something happened to her when crossed paths with these folks. By the way it was not raining straight through or she soaked when people saw her walking on the road. Matter of fact the first man who saw her said it start to rain again and she ran off into the trees. The stuff n shed could be Asha's or could not. That she was full of couches and chairs were stored that upholstered and they could have fallen from it. I'm sure the pieces will come together. The Dedmon's are involved some how.

Someone at some
Point said that police have evidence that she had been planning this for days which would make it even more of a mystery

 

[scrimpies]

Someone at some
Point said that police have evidence that she had been planning this for days which would make it even more of a mystery

I read that too and I'm curious what leads them to believe that. The topic of lured/not lured is difficult because everyone relies on their own experience as a child to make sense of it. No one could have lured me out at that age, so I think she was not lured. Anyone who could have been persuaded out might say she was definitely lured. It is all conjecture as we don't know what the investigators know.

 

[bearfossils]

Just my 2¢: From the information that law enforcement released, the most logical sequence of events to me seems to be that Asha, for whatever reason, decided to pack her backpack with a few personal belongings and left her home willingly in the early morning hours on the day of her disappearance. I don’t believe she was sleepwalking based on the complexity of her actions: a person might walk or talk in their sleep, but they aren’t going to pack a bag with various items, lock doors, see and respond to witnesses approaching them, etc. Without any kind of proof of grooming or enticement by an outsider, it seems most likely that Asha made preparations and left the home on her own accord, for her own reasons. She ended up on or near Highway 18, where she was seen by at least two different witnesses, one of whom attempted to make contact only to have her run away. It’s possible she took shelter in the shed where some of her items, including discarded candy wrappers, were found. At some point, most likely while she was again on or near Highway 18, she was severely injured or killed by one of the teenage girls, probably accidentally, while in the process of transporting a patient (hence Underhill’s DNA) that night on the same road. Instead of reporting the incident, the parents of said girl participated in a conspiracy to conceal it, along with Asha and her belongings.

Whether this was to cover up irresponsible or illegal actions on the part of the family and their facility, along with the death of Asha, or merely to protect their daughter(s?) from legal ramifications of causing her death, isn’t entirely clear to me, but I lean toward the former. I don’t believe this is a case of grooming and abduction; I think this is a confluence of events that resulted in Asha’s death, most likely without forethought or malice, but certainly with serious negligence— and in the case of the adults, a total absence of basic human morality. Again, this is only my opinion. My mind is very much open to change as more information becomes public.

Hopefully more of what happened that night will become clearer soon, and someone who knows something will grow a spine and admit the truth to authorities. Asha deserves to be brought home and given a proper burial, and her family deserves to know what happened to her. My heart goes out to them.

 

[horselightning]

Iirc the girl has been identified and wasn’t related to the case. They believe the photo fell out of the cracks of a couch (shed owner has a furniture store)

i tried to say that before but people didnt believe me.

 

[DS2021]

she was severely injured or killed by one of the teenage girls, probably accidentally

Wouldnt there have been some sign of that in the roadway, like blood, or hair?