GUILTY NC - Kathy Taft, 62, Raleigh, 6 March 2010 - #6

[borndem]

It was such a disturbing thing, the towels and vegetables, so they never *told* any of the doctors??? That makes no sense at all. Why bother even going to therapy if one isn't going to detail, disclose what the problems are???

Seems like that activity would be very important since it sounds so aberrant. Depression and impulse control are pretty common, as psych problems go, but the other....

It could have been a manifestation of self-loathing (hurt the person you hate), and that sounds pretty serious to me. But I'm an English major, and I only had 2 psych courses in college.

 

[NCEast]

Seems like that activity would be very important since it sounds so aberrant. Depression and impulse control are pretty common, as psych problems go, but the other....

It could have been a manifestation of self-loathing (hurt the person you hate), and that sounds pretty serious to me. But I'm an English major, and I only had 2 psych courses in college.

I'm a psych major and I feel that the parents should have talked openly and honestly about everything they knew about--including the vegetables. If they were disgusted by it as Mrs. W. stated today, they could have perhaps discussed it privately with the therapist outside of JW's presence. The mom stated today they they, the parents, didn't because they thought JW would approach it himself with the various therapist(s). And obviously he didn't.
There is no reason to see a medical doctor or a phych doctor or any kind of doctor if the whole truth (and nothing but the truth) is shared so that a complete evaluation can be obtained. Again, I suppose this is parental hindsight but it was an abnormal issue that should have been addressed by Mr. and Mrs. once they discovered it.

 

[gracielee]

I'm a psych major and I feel that the parents should have talked openly and honestly about everything they knew about--including the vegetables. If they were disgusted by it as Mrs. W. stated today, they could have perhaps discussed it privately with the therapist outside of JW's presence. The mom stated today they they, the parents, didn't because they thought JW would approach it himself with the various therapist(s). And obviously he didn't.
There is no reason to see a medical doctor or a phych doctor or any kind of doctor if the whole truth (and nothing but the truth) is shared so that a complete evaluation can be obtained. Again, I suppose this is parental hindsight but it was an abnormal issue that should have been addressed by Mr. and Mrs. once they discovered it.

Thanks NC. That's exactly what I meant. When he saw the first guy, the mother should have had a session alone with him, explaining all the issues they observed, giving him a heads up as to where this therapy needed to go. A therapist isn't a mind reader, nor are regular doctors. When one goes in with a problem, one doesn't tell your doc, 'guess what's wrong with me?' You say "I'm having heart palpatations' or 'my back is killing me'. Most therapist's, at least the ones I've seen, have 'seen it all'. Just about nothing shocks them. JW obviously had some deep-seated issues involving sexual identity, and perhaps his mother. Who knows. But perhaps KW could be alive today if one of those doc's had been advised as to what kind of problems they were dealing with.

 

[gracielee]

I'm a psych major and I feel that the parents should have talked openly and honestly about everything they knew about--including the vegetables. If they were disgusted by it as Mrs. W. stated today, they could have perhaps discussed it privately with the therapist outside of JW's presence. The mom stated today they they, the parents, didn't because they thought JW would approach it himself with the various therapist(s). And obviously he didn't.
There is no reason to see a medical doctor or a phych doctor or any kind of doctor if the whole truth (and nothing but the truth) is shared so that a complete evaluation can be obtained. Again, I suppose this is parental hindsight but it was an abnormal issue that should have been addressed by Mr. and Mrs. once they discovered it.

And I didn't realize you were a psych major, NC! Now I know where to come with my problems. :fence: lease::rollercoaster::dance::razz::boohoo::back:

 

[NCEast]

Thanks NC. That's exactly what I meant. When he saw the first guy, the mother should have had a session alone with him, explaining all the issues they observed, giving him a heads up as to where this therapy needed to go. A therapist isn't a mind reader, nor are regular doctors. When one goes in with a problem, one doesn't tell your doc, 'guess what's wrong with me?' You say "I'm having heart palpatations' or 'my back is killing me'. Most therapist's, at least the ones I've seen, have 'seen it all'. Just about nothing shocks them. JW obviously had some deep-seated issues involving sexual identity, and perhaps his mother. Who knows. But perhaps KW could be alive today if one of those doc's had been advised as to what kind of problems they were dealing with.

Absolutely again. Had the therapists known exactly what was what, there is a possibility that one of them could have reached JW's most deeply rooted problems and given him the help he needed long before he turned into a murderer. If we drink excessively or eat too much, or smoke weed 15 times a day, we should always let our doctors know so they can get a complete picture in order to treat us properly.
If there is anything good for us who watch these trials, I suppose it's that we can learn from the mistakes others make; ie, parents, therapists, friends, etc. It's too late for my children but perhaps I can glean something from all of the bad by which to help my grandkids.

 

[borndem]

Okay, well I feel the whole story, the entire picture is a sad one. Motherhood doesn't come with a handbook telling what will happen if you do this, what will happen if you do that....Even if she HAD told every detail to the therapists, would the outcome have been different? Maybe yes, maybe no. We will never know, however the news is filled with stories of people who got help, and people who slipped through the cracks of social service and mental health services - I would be cautious about judging too fiercely here....Remember Kathy and her sister tried to do all the right things that night....it didn't matter. All we can do now is try to see that justice is done.
I am glad that the defendant's mother has a loving daughter at her side.

My thoughts exactly, laces. Look at all the times SHE (not his father) tried to talk to him -- how she tried to make it better; and the doctors they found for him... and how much of that worked? Very little and for a very short time. He!!, even his father wouldn't broach the produce problem with his son. That was tuff, but even his dad had to know what a time-bomb they were living with...

This said, I am really skeptical that more therapy or a psych for very seriously mentally injured patients -- knowing everything -- would have made that much difference. In-patient might have been better, but that would have crippled that family financially & then the money would have run out... We've all heard stories about anorexics, or suicidal patients, for two examples, who are in-patient and manage to out-manipulate their care-givers and succumb to the disease anyway. They fight against the therapy, etc., and do it their way. JW strikes me as one of these -- certainly I could be wrong, but he fought it or simply ignored it time after time.

And how many, "If only..." statements does she have every day?

You can lead a horse to water....

 

[NCEast]

And I didn't realize you were a psych major, NC! Now I know where to come with my problems. :fence: lease::rollercoaster::dance::razz::boohoo::back:

LOL, I am OLD psych major whose training and experience have probably been replaced by a bunch of newfangled thinking!

 

[NCEast]

My thoughts exactly, laces. Look at all the times SHE (not his father) tried to talk to him -- how she tried to make it better; and the doctors they found for him... and how much of that worked? Very little and for a very short time. He!!, even his father wouldn't broach the produce problem with his son. That was tuff, but even his dad had to know what a time-bomb they were living with...

This said, I am really skeptical that more therapy or a psych for very seriously mentally injured patients -- knowing everything -- would have made that much difference. In-patient might have been better, but that would have crippled that family financially & then the money would have run out... We've all heard stories about anorexics, or suicidal patients, for two examples, who are in-patient and manage to out-manipulate their care-givers and succumb to the disease anyway. They fight against the therapy, etc., and do it their way. JW strikes me as one of these -- certainly I could be wrong, but he fought it or simply ignored it time after time.

And how many, "If only..." statements does she have every day?

You can lead a horse to water....

I agree with a lot of what you are saying Born. But he should have been treated as an inpatient for whatever length of time it took to try to resolve at least some of his issues, which were major from an early age.
I don't think he stayed with any one therapist long enough to reach a level of making progress. I can't remember how many different doctors Mrs. W. named today. She couldn't remember. So sad that even his therapy seemed unstable. There are funds available in this state for god knows everything else, they perhaps could have received help financially had they tried. Again, this is Monday morning quarterbacking and I'm not blaming his parents. Gosh, I feel just awful for them, but I can see a path of enabling that really did him more harm than good since we're at the point we are now, with a beautiful woman whose life wasn't worth a darn thing to JW.

 

[borndem]

Good grief. I don't think I'll live long enough to watch the subsequent trials that are on hold. I'm anxiously awaiting the Hayes/Haze trial that is slated for May, 2013.
By the way, I was under the impression that the Raven Abaroa trial was set for the fall of last year. Does anybody have an update on it?

Here's a little something about abaroa, but you've probably already seen it. It was a while back -- 2005, but it took them 5 years to arrest him. Sounds Young-ish, doesn't it?

At least this one is not here in Wake County, but it's close!!

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/abc11_investigates&id=8574128

 

[NCEast]

Here's a little something about abaroa, but you've probably already seen it. It was a while back -- 2005, but it took them 5 years to arrest him. Sounds Young-ish, doesn't it?

At least this one is not here in Wake County, but it's close!!

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/abc11_investigates&id=8574128

Thank you Born! That's a pretty recent update about the case that I had not seen. The Durham DA situation just can't get any worse. They need to hire somebody from 3000 miles away and start with a clean slate. And since we're on the topic of mental issues I am firmly convinced that newly fired DA from Durham has a few problems herself.

 

[borndem]

And I didn't realize you were a psych major, NC! Now I know where to come with my problems. :fence: lease::rollercoaster::dance::razz::boohoo::back:

Ahem, Get in line, gracielee!!:hand: I've got lots of crazee friends!!:what: ...:crazy::razz: ... :bump: ...anic: ....kay:

 

[wheaten]

been out of town and just checking back in. Bizarre stuff. Why is DH in hospital? What was the testimony about durango being left running until it ran out of gas and then towed to police station?

 

[Madeleine74]

No idea why DH is in the hospital.

DH had locked her car keys in her car. She got confused because she had also taken her sister's car keys with her to use KT's Vic card thingie while at Harris Teeter grocery. Why she didn't turn off her car hasn't been explained, but she didn't. When she came out from the store she realized she had locked the keys in the car and she didn't have AAA and didn't have KT's AAA card with her, so she decided to walk back to the house with the few items she bought, leaving her car at HT.

Her car was out of gas when it was found in the HT parking lot the next morning.

 

[Madeleine74]

Borndem, we are going to have to put you on a 12 step program for smilie overdose! And you too, Gracie!

Admitting you have a problem is the first step.

 

[gracielee]

Borndem, we are going to have to put you on a 12 step program for smilie overdose! And you too, Gracie!

Admitting you have a problem is the first step.

I have a problem. :woohoo:
lease: :great: :razz: illowfight2: :silly:

:anguish: :laughcry: :gasp:

 

[wheaten]

the perfect storm, it seems

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm listening to some of the mom's testimony.

Unbelievable @ the level of co-dependency. There's denial and then there was what was going on in this family which is as deep as anything I've heard.

JW should have been shipped off to some institution or camp or something for the emotionally disturbed when he was about 13 or 14. His world should have been regimented and controlled so that he could not access any alcohol, drugs, or ummm...produce. Not that he would have been cured because I don't think he could be, but his rage maybe could have been channeled into hard physical labor and learning life skills. Having his mommy and daddy do all the things they did, taking care of his messes every time, only solidified his behavior.

His trajectory downward was somewhat predictable.

What I'm noticing as I am listening to his mom's testimony is resignation. She doesn't seem horrified at his actions in this rape and murder. It's all kind of matter of fact.

 

[gracielee]

I'm listening to some of the mom's testimony.

Unbelievable @ the level of co-dependency. There's denial and then there was what was going on in this family which is as deep as anything I've heard.

JW should have been shipped off to some institution or camp or something for the emotionally disturbed when he was about 13 or 14. His world should have been regimented and controlled so that he could not access any alcohol, drugs, or ummm...produce. Not that he would have been cured because I don't think he could be, but his rage maybe could have been channeled into hard physical labor and learning life skills. Having his mommy and daddy do all the things they did, taking care of his messes every time, only solidified his behavior.

His trajectory downward was somewhat predictable.

What I'm noticing as I am listening to his mom's testimony is resignation. She doesn't seem horrified at his actions in this rape and murder. It's all kind of matter of fact.

That's what struck me, when the prosecution asked her about the night JW & his wife came for dinner, the night after the murder, and all she recalled was that he was fired from his job at the Mellow Mushroom. No references to the murder at all. No 'he seemed okay, normal' etc.

 

[borndem]

Borndem, we are going to have to put you on a 12 step program for smilie overdose! And you too, Gracie!

Admitting you have a problem is the first step.

:floorlaugh: P

R

O

B

L :shush: E :seeya: M ???:shush:

illowfight2::cheer: WHAT:skip: PROBLEM ??:cheer::crush::seeya::yesss::santahat::greetings::smooch::giggle::great:

 

[borndem]

been out of town and just checking back in. Bizarre stuff. Why is DH in hospital? What was the testimony about durango being left running until it ran out of gas and then towed to police station?

Hi, wheaten -- glad you're here! IIRC, DH had a bad fall, and apparently is still in the hospital. That could be bad info, because I haven't traced it back to its source yet, but I may do just that...

The DT stipulated that it would be okay for the PT to play the recording of her interview with LEO's where she re-enacted what happened in the house that night. Of course, due to the DVD set-up in the courtroom, we could only hear what was said...

The PT could possibly bring her in during rebuttal if they could angle it correctly, I guess, but it doesn't look like we'll see her as a witness, IMO.

This whole trip has been truly bizarre...