NC - Keith Scott, 43, killed by LEO, Charlotte, 20 Sept 2016 #1

[bluesneakers]

Absolutely, they should have listened to his wife. If the police don't have different methods of engaging with the mentally ill, or the sick, or panicked versus the garden variety criminal, then this is an absolute failure of policing. The fact that this guy had a TBI could have had everything to do with why he didn't drop his weapon, or respond in the manner in which he was being ordered. How could they not take that into account? The police culture has veered away from "protect and serve" into some kind of militaristic, autocratic, impersonal, unthinking machine. This heightens the danger for all of us. People are not machines, and sometimes require finesse and manipulation. If you are a police officer and the only weapon you bring to the table is a gun versus your intellect and ability to assess a situation, you're in the wrong business.

Too often an interaction between LE and a person with a mental illness ends up with the death of the sick person. Whatever their policy is it needs work.

Half of People Killed by Police Have a Disability: Report

Almost half of the people who die at the hands of police have some kind of disability, according to a new report, as officers are often drawn into emergencies where urgent care may be more appropriate than lethal force.

The report, published by the Ruderman Family Foundation, a disability organization, proposes that while police interactions with minorities draw increasing scrutiny, disability and health considerations are still neglected in media coverage and law enforcement policy.

 

[animlzrule]

He did pose an imminent threat. He had a cocked gun in his hand that he didn't want to part with. I doubt seriously they would just let him walk away.

Having a cocked gun in one's hand is not an imminent threat. He wasn't pointing it at anyone. And they didn't bother to talk to him about the reality of the situation. Repeatedly screaming to drop a weapon to a person with a TBI is not an attempt to deescalate or resolve the situation. There was no imminent threat here.

 

[escape2sc]

BBM But that wasn't the case! That's what I mean, the police need to have the ability to assess a situation for risk, and at least attempt non lethal means of deescalation before shooting someone. Noncompliance with a police order isn't, and has never been, until lately, grounds for the police to kill. And yes, he had a gun, but he wasn't pointing it at the officers. Each situation has to be approached individually. They knew that they were dealing with someone with a brain injury. And the fact that NC is an open carry state complicates things. For instance, in your example, that doesn't permit LE to kill that individual either. He hadn't yet done anything. He had a loaded weapon, which is legal there. He was whispering "praise Allah." So? Wearing a military jacket, raggedly dressed...so? Is he pointing his weapon at people, threatening people, well, then that's different. Yes, of course police should be expected to use discernment when engaging with the public. Surely, police training is more than about how to use the weapons.

I am sorry we disagree but if someone stands on a public street .. at a school bus stop with a loaded gun in their hand ...I would see that as an imminent threat to himself, to the public , to LE. it only takes a split second to point a gun and shoot it..

 

[human]

Does anyone know if the open carry law in North Carolina allows a person to engage in illegal activity while carrying a gun?

I,posted the discussion by the univ prof of NC addressing this very issue

 

[Caffeine]

Does anyone know if LE knew he was a felon with a gun before they shot him?

He was seen with marijuana and a gun, how much more probable cause do they need to approach him?

The fact that it was out of the holster and in his hand becomes brandishing a weapon which is illegal anyway.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

So open carry laws mean that LE should ignore people who brandish a gun and are engaged in illegal activity's. They should not check to see if the person breaking the law is allowed to posses the gun. Just let them continue in doing whatever they were doing.

This is nuts . JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

He was seen with marijuana and a gun, how much more probable cause do they need to approach him?

The fact that it was out of the holster and in his hand becomes brandishing a weapon which is illegal anyway.

So.... no?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

He was seen with marijuana and a gun, how much more probable cause do they need to approach him?

The fact that it was out of the holster and in his hand becomes brandishing a weapon which is illegal anyway.

Apparently none of those facts matter. Open carry means that LE has to ignore illegal actions by anyone. I guess people should make sure they brandish a gun while committing any kind of crime.
It's a "get out of jail free" card.
JMO

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

So open carry laws mean that LE should ignore people who brandish a gun and are engaged in illegal activity's. They should not check to see if the person breaking the law is allowed to posses the gun. Just let them continue in doing whatever they were doing.

This is nuts . JMO

They saw the drugs and gun and went back to their vehicle to put their vests on. I'll bet they ran his tag at that time and knew exactly what they were dealing with.

 

[Caffeine]

Apparently none of those facts matter. Open carry means that LE has to ignore illegal actions by anyone. I guess people should make sure they brandish a gun while committing any kind of crime.
It's a "get out of jail free" card.
JMO

Apparently we need more people holding loaded handguns smoking blunts at school bus stops. But, its cool as long as he doesn't point it at anyone.

 

[Doghairrules]

I don't care that he's kneeling. I think it's disgusting but it's his right.
I was reacting to him speaking to the High School team.
He can have his opinions, but a school
System letting him push his agenda there is nonsense IMO.

The school system has pushed the white agenda since it began. I think it's wonderful for kids to hear another point of view.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 39678]

They saw the drugs and gun and went back to their vehicle to put their vests on. I'll bet they ran his tag at that time and knew exactly what they were dealing with.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if that turn's out to be true. I really don't understand why open carry keeps being brought up. This miscreant was observed engaging in an illegal activity while brandishing a gun. Both of those facts are backed up by evidence recovered at the scene of the shooting.

LE acted within the law and prevented others from being harmed. They should be commended. JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

Apparently we need more people holding loaded handguns smoking blunts at school bus stops. But, its cool as long as he doesn't point it at anyone.

???

Did the officers know who he was or that he was a felon when they first approached him? What is wrong with wanting an answer to that particular question?

 

[Tillicum]

???

Did the officers know who he was or that he was a felon when they first approached him? What is wrong with wanting an answer to that particular question?

We don't know it for a fact, hasn't been confirmed by LE AFAIK. I do think there's a very good chance they checked out the plate number while calling for back up and putting on their vests. JMO

 

[animlzrule]

I am sorry we disagree but if someone stands on a public street .. at a school bus stop with a loaded gun in their hand ...I would see that as an imminent threat to himself, to the public , to LE. it only takes a split second to point a gun and shoot it..

But why? It's an open carry state. I don't like it, I think the open carry laws are dangerous and ridiculous, and I'd be apoplectic if I saw anyone with a gun around my child, but it's not against the law to have one in NC. People were wandering all around the RNC with semi-automatic guns and assault rifles strapped to their chests...why wasn't that considered an imminent threat? They proudly proclaimed it was their right under the Constitution and state law to be doing it. It only takes a split second to point a gun and shoot, as you said.

 

[bluesneakers]

We don't know it for a fact, hasn't been confirmed by LE AFAIK. I do think there's a very good chance they checked out the plate number while calling for back up and putting on their vests. JMO

They certainly had time, and if nothing else they had the plates and a description. But in the end, as of right now, as far as we know they might not have had any idea who he was or what his record was.

It's just funny how this one question gets turned into we should let felons get stoned and run around on playgrounds waving loaded weapons. I'm not sure who is advocating for that here, but maybe I missed something.

 

[animlzrule]

Apparently none of those facts matter. Open carry means that LE has to ignore illegal actions by anyone. I guess people should make sure they brandish a gun while committing any kind of crime.
It's a "get out of jail free" card.
JMO

But he wasn't brandishing his weapon. Holding, not pointing it at anyone, is not the same thing as brandishing.

 

[Caffeine]

???

Did the officers know who he was or that he was a felon when they first approached him? What is wrong with wanting an answer to that particular question?

I have no idea if they ran his tags and surmised if he was beforehand.

Certainly the combination of weed and a handgun in a vehicle is going to pique the interest of police, regardless if the handgun is lawful or not. Even if it's decriminalized, marijuana is still illegal in NC.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

LOL seriously???????????????

Yes! It looks like he WAS found wearing an ankle holster, after all.

 

[Tawny]

Yes! It looks like he WAS found wearing an ankle holster, after all.

When I saw this I was like "wth did I question?" and realized I thought you said "ankle bracelet" bahaha