NC - Keith Scott, 43, killed by LEO, Charlotte, 20 Sept 2016 #1

[Deleted member 39678]

After reading all the posts regarding "open carry" of guns, I have to make a comment.

In my 35 years of living in NC, I did not know about this law or have never seen anyone carrying a gun in plain sight. Reading the comments makes it sound like guns are out in the open, freely carried by people. This is not the case.

It is extremely important to get a "concealed carry" permit and to have it with you at all times.

In my opinion open carry or concealed carry gun laws don't have any bearing to this case because Scott was a convicted felon who had no right to possess a gun at all.

Shows us how well gun control works doesn't it? JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

Black men have legitimate reason to run from police, Supreme Court rules

The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court just threw out the 2011 gun conviction of Jimmy Warren

Black men running from police have a legitimate reason to do so, a supreme court in the US has ruled.

The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court has ruled threw out the 2011 gun conviction of Jimmy Warren after ruling police did not have a legitimate reason to stop him and the fact he ran away should not be used against him.

In doing so, the court cited police data and a 2014 report by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) which found black men were disproportionately likely to be stopped by police in Boston

“Rather, the finding that black males in Boston are disproportionately and repeatedly targeted for FIO [Field Interrogation and Observation] encounters suggests a reason for flight totally unrelated to consciousness of guilt.

“Given this reality for black males in the city of Boston, a judge should, in appropriate cases, consider the report's findings in weighing flight as a factor in the reasonable suspicion calculus.”

The 2014 ACLU report found that black men in Boston were subject to 63 per cent of police's stop and searches despite only making up 24 per cent of the population.

Matthew Segal, the legal director of the ACLU in Massachusetts, said it was a “powerful ruling” for ethnic minorities.

“So this is an opinion that looks at those encounters through the eyes of a black man who might justifiably be concerned that he will be the victim of profiling."

 

[K_Z]

The Mass Supreme Court finding is not at all applicable to Keith Scott's crimes, or resistance of arrest (and KS was in NC, not MA).

The ruling by Mass Supreme Court was explicitly about the vagueness of the description of the suspect's clothing, and no other evidence of felony in progress, when the suspect ran. They subsequently found an illegal weapon on him, and that specific charge was thrown out. It simply means that a black man running is not automatic consciousness of guilt. It does not at all mean that any, or every running black man is innocent, or should not be pursued by police. It depends on the circumstances as to WHY police are pursuing. A felony in progress, for example. This was not a "stop and frisk" case-- the Keith Scott encounter.

“Given this reality for black males in the city of Boston, a judge should, in appropriate cases, consider the report's findings in weighing flight as a factor in the reasonable suspicion calculus.”

BBM.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ng-charlotte-keith-lamont-scott-a7322151.html

 

[Deleted member 39678]

No, but it helps us to understand the suspects behavior and reactions during the incident. People wanted to go with the initial narrative---kind, doting father waiting at the bus stop, reading a book---but this fills in the story in a different way.

Knowing he has a lengthy criminal history makes it more likely that he would be very concerned about being detained and questioned this time--aND makes it more likely that he thenresisted and was non-compliant.

It makes more sense why he would be so worried about being caught with some pot and a weapon too.

I totally agree with your post. I think that Scott using a gun in the past to solve a problem he had means that it's very possible that he felt it would be the right thing to do in this situation.

He had this kind of attitude in the last shooting he was involved in. Quote below.

But I figured I would be less of a man if I didn’t stand up for my family.

To which the judge replied: “You shot at him ten times.”

He needed to stand up and be a man and using a gun was how he did it in the past and in this situation.

The first time it cost him seven years away from his family. This time it cost his family more. Something final. His death.

http://www.chron.com/news/local/article/Keith-Scott-killed-by-Charlotte-police-had-9242836.php

 

[Doghairrules]

Owned by Rupert Murdoch. There is no other report of this anywhere that I can find.

Quote feature not working, but this is in response to the beat street link.

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[Deleted member 39678]

The point, to me is, how does one know who is a good guy with a gun and who is a bad guy?

The way LE officers can tell who the "good guy" is from the "bad guy" with a gun is simple.

The good guy immediately complies with an officers command to "drop the gun".

The bad guy refuses to cooperate and ignores the officers multiple commands to "drop the gun".

 

[bluesneakers]

The way LE officers can tell who the "good guy" is from the "bad guy" with a gun is simple.

The good guy immediately complies with an officers command to "drop the gun".

The bad guy refuses to cooperate and ignores the officers multiple commands to "drop the gun".

human was asking about regular citizens, not about LEOs. How does one know?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

human was asking about regular citizens, not about LEOs. How does one know?

I didn't realize that human was posting off topic. I was replying in regards to this case only.

If we want to discuss open carry and other gun control issues we need to get approval from Tricia. She usually doesn't allow gun control discussions.

 

[Jax49]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/u...-police-warily-learn-to-de-escalate.html?_r=0

Interesting article about deescalation techniques and the pros and cons.

At the forefront are de-escalation tactics, the variety of methods officers use to defuse potentially violent encounters, such as talking and behaving calmly and reasonably with sometimes unreasonable people.

Officers at police academies have always been trained in de-escalation, but there has been less emphasis on such methods over the past 20 years. A recent Police Executive Research Forum survey of 281 police agencies found that the average young officer received 58 hours of firearms training and 49 hours of defensive tactical training, but only eight hours of de-escalation training.

 

[mister happy]

FWIW.. I've watched the police videos in slow motion, and I did see Keith Scott's right pant leg pulled up exposing his ankle holster, and it did appear that he had an object in his right hand.

 

[Elde Fruit]

FWIW.. I've watched the police videos in slow motion, and I did see Keith Scott's right pant leg pulled up exposing his ankle holster, and it did appear that he had an object in his right hand.

The bloke was murdered, outright. Shoot first, ask later. The Police in the USA are gun whipped. Get rid of the guns.

 

[mister happy]

The bloke was murdered, outright. Shoot first, ask later. The Police in the USA are gun whipped. Get rid of the guns.

Well, the cops did in effect ask first. They told him a dozen times to drop the gun.

 

[Elde Fruit]

What gun? Show me the gun. If it existed, where was it......at the scene after the bloke was murdered?

 

[karen302]

What gun? Show me the gun. If it existed, where was it......at the scene after the bloke was murdered?

I guess the ankle holster was to hold his cell phone which contained his ebook?

 

[Dogface]

What gun? Show me the gun. If it existed, where was it......at the scene after the bloke was murdered?

Thats an easily searchable thing. There are pictures of it all over the Internet, he was wearing an ankle holster for it, other witnesses have corroborated what the police have said.

 

[silverkitty]

You can read the conversation here, it makes for a more informed opinion.

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[silverkitty]

What gun? Show me the gun. If it existed, where was it......at the scene after the bloke was murdered?

It was at the scene before he was shot, yes. Multiple people saw it. There's no magic involved here, it didn't just appear after the fact although that would fit the agenda.

There are easily-found photos of the gun and holster earlier in the thread.

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[Kimberlyd125]

I've been busy the past couple of days and just got to see the press conference and the videos.

First off, I love this police chief. Very well spoken, informed, and fair. Charlotte should be very proud to have him IMO.

The videos... While you don't see the gun, you see something in his left hand that he's refusing to drop. The cops are obviously concerned for their safety, they are taking cover. He is not complying.
This was all in very close proximity. I have no doubt it was a gun and those cops did what they had to do.

And the words we heard from the wife... "Don't do it Keith, KEITH don't do it" were screamed at the exact time he was walking backwards and refusing to drop the gun. IMO she knew what he was doing was going to cause them to shoot. She saw the danger. So if she saw it, how can we question what they saw?

Bottom line, he was a huge threat. All he had to do was drop it.

JMO

 

[ohreally]

I really worry for the witnesses.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Watching the Panthers/Vikings game.
No visible protests during the playing of the national anthem.
Both sidelines were full of standing players. The announcers even mentioned it as they scanned down both sidelines.

Being that the game is in Charlotte, I was wondering how that would go.

I'm proud of both teams!