NC NC - Kyle Fleischmann, 24, Charlotte, 9 Nov 2007 - #1

[Blink34]

Hi everyone-
I am new to this site, unfortunately as a necessity as a research tool for another missing person: Michael Barbiere.
Thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60192

Our websites: www.helpfindmike.com , www.bringmikehome.com

I am putting this on here as I have read some of your work on other missing persons cases and we would sincerely appreciate any help you could offer on the thread above. I will gladly answer any questions via private message as well. We are desperate. The circumstances are very similar to Kyle's except that Mike was not a local to Breckenridge, Co, he was on vacation, so unfortunately it has a different level of priority for LE.
If you could give it a look and give your thoughts or any resources, we would be forever greatful.

 

[LittleRNB]

Welcome Blink!
I recently saw Michael's mom on tv and visited his website. That is terrible that their annual trip to Colorado turned so tragic!
I live about 20 mins South of where Kyle disappeared and have followed his case closely. In a nutshell, Kyle and a group of friends went out to see the Dane Cook show in downtown Charlotte and then walked over to the Buckhead Saloon for a little while. I heard that his friends (a lot of his close, long-time friends) left around midnight, but it wasn't until later that Kyle left by himself. Kyle's dad has said he has no idea why he left alone. The bar was closing, Kyle's car was a few miles away at his friends house. It wasn't until very recently that I heard about Kyle being at the Fuel Pizza. His cell phone showed activity in the downtown area for quite some time after he left Buckhead...this is what his dad was talking about in the radio interview when he said "something" or "someone" kept Kyle in the area because he was the type of person who was "always moving." Kyle's dad believes Kyle is dead, which is probably true at this point. I just hope they get to the bottom of what happened so his family gets closure.
About Mike....I will keep his family and friends in my thoughts and check his site to check on updates. Best of luck!

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to WS, Eyl and Blink.

Blink, sorry it has to be under these circumstances, but you came to the right place. The people here are genuinely concerned and helpful. Good luck finding answers and finding Mike. (I just posted on Mike's thread.)

EYL, this case is quite baffling as are other cases like Mike's where they were last seen in a bar setting. The mix of people, alcohol, and other factors play into unreliable witnesses and people who may have been from outside the area. It does make them more difficult to track down for information. I hope there is a break on Kyle's case soon. His family deserves to find out what happened and to bring Kyle home. Bless their hearts.

 

[EYL]

Thank you for the welcome SeriouslySearching. I have been following a lot of the cases similar to Kyle, which, as you say, are truly baffling. Because I am in NC, Kyle's case is close to home. I hpe to be able to do something of value for the case or the Fleischmann family.

Blink, If you need anything for Mike, please ask, I will do anything I can.

Glad to be here!

 

[Blink34]

Hi All-
Your compassion and offers of help are in a word, renewing to our search for Mike. I have to check with family as to what specifics I can give you for your input and "sleuthing" but will do so tomorrow. Additionally we are working on some theories that I might send privately vs. posting. That being said I look forward to your responses and feedback.

As I said I am the somewhat unwilling participant in the realm of missing persons but the research I have dug up in the last 2 months, is astounding- this is EXACTLY what you think will never happen to you or anyone you love and once is does it throws even the smartest and most intuitive of us into almost a kind of incapacitated state. More on my research another time, but as you have kindly taken the time to evaluate Mike's case, I intend to help others in the same situation while we try to locate Mike.

Regarding Kyle's case, I think there needs to be an explanation as to why Kyle's friends either left before him, or he without them. I would think that to be pivotal in understanding where he might have or "expected" to be headed. Could that reason explain why he walked out without his jacket- the timing is right for the bar to close and not allow him back in, which he might not have known. Additionally I feel strongly the calls are important, both the order, timing, and the recipient. I think the fact that was not disclosed until Mr. Fleischmann's radio interview means either LE or his PI thought so too. I am imagining a scenario where you are secretly dialing your cell phone to get someone to answer and then "work into the conversation" where you are without letting on that you might be scared. Or conversely, he knew he was in danger and knew his cell could be pinged as he called the same number the last 4 times at his dad's office a few minutes apart. As I understand he never left a message on any of the machines he got- if I were trying to reach someone, and was unsuccesful a few times, I think most people start talking into the machine as it is realistic to think that people might either screen or wake when I spoke at that hour.
Last theory- someone was intentionally making calls to cover up where he may have been or trying to buy more time before people began missing him.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Hmmm..interesting about the phone calls, Blink. It reminds me of something I heard not too long ago about why you don't list your family members on your cell phone as "wife, mom, dad, etc." and should list them by name. If someone else were using his cell phone to establish a fake "ping" to throw people off...was his father's office simply listed under "Dad" and the number might be the one to pop up as last one called instead of his father's home or cell number?

Walking out without his jacket is curious, but I know plenty of people who have put their coat, jacket, etc. on the back of a chair in a warm bar and simply walked out without realizing it until back at their vehicle or even home. Body heat from a crowd doesn't wear off instantly and until you are chilled, you might not miss it. However, walking out without your credit/debit card is another thing entirely. Unless you are drunk, you don't leave it behind.

 

[Blink34]

SS-
I believe the Dad said he thought that Kyle had a phone that lists all Dad's numbers under Dad, and then scroll for work, home, etc, but it has not been recovered so can't be sure. Would be a good question to ask if Mr. Fleischmann recalls what number he spoke to Kyle from last.
My instincts tell me that after the call to Noelle, the calls beginning 3-3:30 were made by Kyle in distress. The timing and the rest of the circumstances look more like a failed robbery or wrong place wrong time.
Agreed about the jacket, but if he had cash seperate from that in his pocket, and ONLY his debit card in the jacket, it would seem he was sensitive enough to not carry a wallet around in his jacket pocket so it would not get stolen. I mention that as kind of an indication he was cognizant about that sort of thing..
Just thought of another thing- were the friends he called after Noelle ( I believe 2) the same friends he was out with that evening? Might not have realized he had been seperated from them until then?

Your correct about the programming of your cell these days I believe- I just saw a blurb that you should only use names, and the initials ICE for In Case of Emergency..

 

[LittleRNB]

http://www.ncwanted.com/episodeguide


Here is a link to a recent episode about Kyle.
Blink, I think that Kyle's friends that he called were there w/him that night. It was on a week night, so I believe they went on home and Kyle chose to stay because he was talking to a female or two. He was seen dancing on a camera shortly before closing time.

About Mike, I thought I read that he was walking the opposite way of the condo to possibly meet up with a female that he met at an earlier stop. Any more on this?

It is terrible that these folks just disappeared and there doesn't seem to be a lot families can do to get them back. I do know this, it appears that there are plenty of people walking around among us who are literally getting away with murder. How scarey is that?!?!?!

 

[Blink34]

In a word, it's a waking nightmare that you can't turn off.
We are assuming based on Mike's gesture to his friend when he was walking North that is what he was doing. I dont know how to forward you the post I put on Mike's thread earlier but it is more specific if you can get a chance to view it, sorry I'm sure it's a rookie error. Let me know what you think. Gotta say it makes the theory that he at least carried a money clip as he knew he would need a cab home?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I know a lot of guys that age that stuff money into their pants pocket and carry their DL and Debit card in their breast pockets of jackets etc. I think it is a habit left over from High School. So to think that he may have had cash on him for a cab ride could be accurate.

I have learned a whole other world exists in NC. Gangbanging isn't new, but I didn't realize the extent of the stronghold there until the recent murder of the student in Chapel Hill, NC and began to research the gangs. To me, this could play a factor in Kyle going missing and the reason the leads are very few.

 

[Blink34]

I must say I am not that familiar with the area, but I have a friend there that says in certain parts it's really bad. I read somewhere that the original search for Kyle underwent gunfire from what they thought was gang activity- Could that be related to where his body was?
The only positive to that scenario is that they usually brag about these types of crimes within their gangs, somebody always gets pinched and may try to save their skin.
I hope LE is working their informants

 

[SeriouslySearching]

We would hope so at least. Yes, the gunfire scenario was quite troubling. It does make you wonder if they were getting too close or simply targets because they were there. Who knows what gangs will do?! They don't value anything or anyone.

 

[Hucklepie]

There's definitely a gang problem in NC, particularly in the bigger cities - of which Charlotte definitely is one. I live just outside Charlotte and haven't heard anything new about Kyle Fleishmann in several weeks, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was a gang tie-in somehow. I wouldn't speculate that Kyle himself had gang ties, but it's common enough and prevalent enough that I wouldn't rule out a gang tie to the majority of disappearances and murders in general.

 

[LittleRNB]

Hi Hucklepie! We are neighbors!
Unfortunately, Charlotte is a BEAUTIFUL but dangerous city. When you watch the local news, all you hear is about one shooting or another locally. The last news I heard about Kyle was the radio interview that his dad did. But I do know that America's Most Wanted is coming to Charlotte this month to re-trace Kyle's steps and get his story on the air again. I don't know his dad personally, but I can tell you he is not going to give up until he has answers...

 

[SeriouslySearching]

My son lived there and when I visited, I didn't see anything except the airport and the area around where he lived which was lovely.

 

[LittleRNB]

SS, I am telling you...I have been all over the world and Charlotte is really one of the prettiest cities I have seen. It looks very clean, has lots of beautiful old homes, old trees, nice streets....but an ugly crime scene that is getting out of control. Now Charlotte's mayor has decided to run for Governor. I don't know who or what will get the criminals in check, but just a few weeks ago, a police officer shot a robber as he exited a dollar store. I support the use of guns just to scare them into better behavior.
I'm sorry I am rambling, just finished my 12 hour shift!

I had my 100th post tonight

 

[Blink34]

My son lived there and when I visited, I didn't see anything except the airport and the area around where he lived which was lovely.

Don't know the area, but I understand it is really difficult to coneal a muder, wish we could find him

 

[LittleRNB]

Don't know the area, but I understand it is really difficult to coneal a muder, wish we could find him

I thought about what you said for a long time and I wish that I could agree. There are some unique things about our area (Charlotte) that are actually ideal for concealing a murder. We have 2 very large lakes close by (Lake Norman and Lake Wylie), we have thousands of acres of parks, lushly populated areas with trees, and 2 major interstates that run right through Charlotte. Another disadvantage that we have that may have lead to Kyle's trouble is lack of public transportation. We recently got a small "train" system that runs on a 10 mile track (north and south), but we don't have the greatest transit system and thus makes people vulnerable for rides when they need to get around a city that is rather spread out. There are plenty of people who live in the uptown area (which other cities call "downtown"), but the vast majority of people who go to Charlotte for dinner or entertainment live 10-45 minutes away from center city.
Also, we have so many rural areas that are an easy drive from the spot that Kyle was last seen. He could have been in South Carolina within 15-20 minutes easily. And we have an ever-growing number of gangs which include blacks, hispanics, whites....not to mention a homeless problem. But I think it's impossible to believe that this was a local homeless person who harmed Kyle because they couldn't have concealed him the way he has been. My guess is Kyle was taken a long way out of Charlotte.

 

[Blink34]

I thought about what you said for a long time and I wish that I could agree. There are some unique things about our area (Charlotte) that are actually ideal for concealing a murder. We have 2 very large lakes close by (Lake Norman and Lake Wylie), we have thousands of acres of parks, lushly populated areas with trees, and 2 major interstates that run right through Charlotte. Another disadvantage that we have that may have lead to Kyle's trouble is lack of public transportation. We recently got a small "train" system that runs on a 10 mile track (north and south), but we don't have the greatest transit system and thus makes people vulnerable for rides when they need to get around a city that is rather spread out. There are plenty of people who live in the uptown area (which other cities call "downtown"), but the vast majority of people who go to Charlotte for dinner or entertainment live 10-45 minutes away from center city.
Also, we have so many rural areas that are an easy drive from the spot that Kyle was last seen. He could have been in South Carolina within 15-20 minutes easily. And we have an ever-growing number of gangs which include blacks, hispanics, whites....not to mention a homeless problem. But I think it's impossible to believe that this was a local homeless person who harmed Kyle because they couldn't have concealed him the way he has been. My guess is Kyle was taken a long way out of Charlotte.

sorry, let me clarify, I did not mean that based on your area it is hard to conceal an unplanned murder, I meant in general, the working theory that in an average (ridiculous sounding I know) unplanned murder, there is an average of 25 errors potentially exposing the perp, following that theory, there would be more in an unplanned homicide, which I believe this was, so somewhere, with someone is alot of evidence here making it difficult to conceal, regardless of the area.

 

[LittleRNB]

sorry, let me clarify, I did not mean that based on your area it is hard to conceal an unplanned murder, I meant in general, the working theory that in an average (ridiculous sounding I know) unplanned murder, there is an average of 25 errors potentially exposing the perp, following that theory, there would be more in an unplanned homicide, which I believe this was, so somewhere, with someone is alot of evidence here making it difficult to conceal, regardless of the area.

phewww! I will have to re-read that again in the morning with fresh eyes, but I get the msg. That is VERY interesting and makes a lot of sense. That's the frustrating thing...someone had to make some sort of mistake that will get them caught. I keep thinking someone will slip up and talk about something that will lead authorities to them. And I hope the same for Mike, too. I just left you a reply on Mike's thread.