NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

[Jeana (DP)]

In my opinion, the reason I can't wrap my brain around an accomplice is because I still believe this was a rage killing that was touched off that night by something.... I don't know what, but something. I think he was more than a little cranked up on some type of speed or whatever his drug of choice was and there was a boiling rage that spilled over and he went after the object of his rage - his wife.....then during a struggle and fight one of the babies woke and from then on - his mission had to be kill them and kill them all and make it look like an intruder. I believe he could kill his own children - he was trained in the military to survive and at that point his life was at stake and he did what it took to survive being ruined and sent to prison for the murder of his wife. He seriously thought it would pass muster following on the heels of the Sharon Tate murders by Charlie Manson and his crew. And it almost worked - but his narcissistic self just couldn't shut up and that got Freddy thinking and working, thank God.

I agree Less.

 

[Jules]

Exactly less! I don't believe it was 'planned' but rather set off by rage, too. Something made him snap that night. Whether it was one of the daughters' peeing in his bed, or something with his wife, I don't know. But I don't believe it was premeditated. And I don't think he came up with the 'Manson' link until AFTER the murders when he had time to think about things. I think he killed them and then went and sat in the living room and the magazine on the coffee table caught his eye. On the cover was info about the Manson murders. I think that's when he made the decision to try to copy that. Then I think he staged the living room scene - flipping over the coffee table, etc. - went back to the kitchen to call 911 and then finally lay down next to his wife's body before the MPs got there.

 

[less0305]

Exactly less! I don't believe it was 'planned' but rather set off by rage, too. Something made him snap that night. Whether it was one of the daughters' peeing in his bed, or something with his wife, I don't know. But I don't believe it was premeditated. And I don't think he came up with the 'Manson' link until AFTER the murders when he had time to think about things. I think he killed them and then went and sat in the living room and the magazine on the coffee table caught his eye. On the cover was info about the Manson murders. I think that's when he made the decision to try to copy that. Then I think he staged the living room scene - flipping over the coffee table, etc. - went back to the kitchen to call 911 and then finally lay down next to his wife's body before the MPs got there.

Yeppers - my same thoughts!

 

[nanandjim]

...Why would it be too far fetched to believe he got a druggie to help him?

If I recall correctly, the prosecution theorized that MacDonald started a fight because he found his bed wet by his older daughter, Kimberly. Collette and he struggled and eventually Collette was hit with a board (or something). This board also hit/killed his daughter, Kimberly, who was behind him as he was preparing to strike Collette.

In any case, he beat and stabbed Collette to death, returned a dead/dying Kimberly to her bed and then went into the baby's room, Kristen, and stabbed her to death.

Collette, who was not dead, went into the baby's room trying to protect her. I believe that Jeffrey delivered the final blow there.

The details are fuzzy, but this is kind of how it happened. I think that Jeff flew into a rage. They said that he was taking amphetamines, and this may have contributed to his rage.

The prosecution think that Kimberly's death was an accident and Collette's death was the result of an argument gone bad. They believe, however, that Kristen's death was premeditated. There were hesitation wounds as if he was forcing himself to kill her. He had to kill her because he was going to stage the scene as if intruders came in and killed his family.

It's amazing how the intruders viciously killed all of the weaker sex (females). Yet, he only received a few strategically placed wounds.

There was also a lot of evidence presented explaining how it was obvious that the crime scene was staged.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

In my opinion, the reason I can't wrap my brain around an accomplice is because I still believe this was a rage killing that was touched off that night by something.... I don't know what, but something. I think he was more than a little cranked up on some type of speed or whatever his drug of choice was and there was a boiling rage that spilled over and he went after the object of his rage - his wife.....then during a struggle and fight one of the babies woke and from then on - his mission had to be kill them and kill them all and make it look like an intruder. I believe he could kill his own children - he was trained in the military to survive and at that point his life was at stake and he did what it took to survive being ruined and sent to prison for the murder of his wife. He seriously thought it would pass muster following on the heels of the Sharon Tate murders by Charlie Manson and his crew. And it almost worked - but his narcissistic self just couldn't shut up and that got Freddy thinking and working, thank God.

I can tell you one thing, even back then, no hippie (drug-crazed or not) would ever write something as lame (and out of date , slangwise, at that point) as "Acid is groovy".

And this wouldn't be the first time a convicted killer has demanded DNA that has 100% sealed their fate once and for all. In some way, I suspect they talk themselves into believing their own crap.

 

[Jules]

In some way, I suspect they talk themselves into believing their own crap.

I think that's definitely part of it. I think they convince themselves things happened just as they said. There's a name for that and I can't remember it.

He obviously believed he was home free and it was over. He had moved on and thought everyone else had too... wasn't he mistaken.

 

[michelle]

I am watching this on LKL right now and Collette's brother is on now. LKL just told the brother it was his show and let him talk. It seems heated.

 

[Jules]

I am watching this on LKL right now and Collette's brother is on now. LKL just told the brother it was his show and let him talk. It seems heated.

Is his wife whacked or what??? :loser:

 

[michelle]

Is his wife whacked or what??? :loser:

LOL, I tell ya. I just dont know what to think about this case, I swear it reminds me of darlie routier.

 

[Jules]

LOL, I tell ya. I just dont know what to think about this case, I swear it reminds me of darlie routier.

I will always believe it was Jeff and Jeff alone that commited these murders.

HOWEVER, I also believe that the Army botched this case and made some mistakes in the beginning.

Seems the Fourth Circuit has ordered a new hearing on this case. I hadn't heard that before.

 

[michelle]

I will always believe it was Jeff and Jeff alone that commited these murders.

HOWEVER, I also believe that the Army botched this case and made some mistakes in the beginning.

Seems the Fourth Circuit has ordered a new hearing on this case. I hadn't heard that before.

Yea i just heard that tonight too. I have always been on the fence about these murders, however I do not know that much to really say why. I have just always been unsure. I am quite interested in the DNA they have tested this time around.

 

[txsvicki]

After watching Nancy Grace talking earlier about the brown hair in or on Collette's hand turning out to be Jeffrey's, I went to crime library and it sort of suprised me to see how much this site seems to believe in Jeffrey's innocence. I had thought that crime library mainly just told the facts.

 

[michelle]

After watching Nancy Grace talking earlier about the brown hair in or on Collette's hand turning out to be Jeffrey's, I went to crime library and it sort of suprised me to see how much this site seems to believe in Jeffrey's innocence. I had thought that crime library mainly just told the facts.

I go there alot and read the different stories. I am on the fence about the Macdonald case/ I watched LKL last night and they said the hair wasnt in her hand but on the hand somewhere and was from him giving her mouth to mouth, so who knows.....

 

[Blondieskatz]

Usually a lurker- but have become interested in this case even though it is so old, but still in the news.
I agree about The Crime Library- it seems to be very biased in this case.

But, a question or a thought about the hypnosis McDonald had. What do you think- if you commited the murders would you be able to make yourself believe something else for the sake of being under hypnosis? Or do you think he fooled the examiner.

Blondieskatz

 

[michelle]

Usually a lurker- but have become interested in this case even though it is so old, but still in the news.
I agree about The Crime Library- it seems to be very biased in this case.

But, a question or a thought about the hypnosis McDonald had. What do you think- if you commited the murders would you be able to make yourself believe something else for the sake of being under hypnosis? Or do you think he fooled the examiner.

Blondieskatz

I dont think you could fool that. JMO.

 

[Jules]

Usually a lurker- but have become interested in this case even though it is so old, but still in the news.
I agree about The Crime Library- it seems to be very biased in this case.

But, a question or a thought about the hypnosis McDonald had. What do you think- if you commited the murders would you be able to make yourself believe something else for the sake of being under hypnosis? Or do you think he fooled the examiner.

Blondieskatz

Hi Blondie. Welcome to WS!

To answer your question - yes, I do think it is possible to convince yourself things happened a different way. In particular, I think that is exactly what Mac has done. It can also effect hypnotic testing. There is a name for this (technical name), but I can't remember what it is.

That said, I also think he is quite cunning and could have easily fooled the examiner.

 

[concernedperson]

I believe MacDonald to be cunning and responsible for the death of his family but I have to say I was hynotized once. It was the oddest thing. I had no memory at all of it happening and I would have never thought I could be. The only proof for me was the clock, I knew what time I went in and I completely lost 2-3 hours.

 

[michelle]

I believe MacDonald to be cunning and responsible for the death of his family but I have to say I was hynotized once. It was the oddest thing. I had no memory at all of it happening and I would have never thought I could be. The only proof for me was the clock, I knew what time I went in and I completely lost 2-3 hours.

Thats weird....

 

[AdoraBlue]

It's amazing how the intruders viciously killed all of the weaker sex (females). Yet, he only received a few strategically placed wounds.

He was a Green Beret, let's don't forget that. If there had been "hippie attackers," wouldn't a Green Beret have been able to at least make one of them bleed a little, thus leaving someone else's blood at the scene? (Although I do concede, with the ABO system used to categorize the blood evidence in this trial, that an attacker could have had the same blood type as Collette, Kimberly and/or Kristen, or even MacDonald himself. Does anybody know if the blood evidence is still preserved and if so is DNA testing a possibility?)

And as for his wounds, he was a surgeon, for crying out loud!!! The very people on this earth trained to "wound" human beings without killing them!!!

I have never believed MacDonald's BS.

 

[Jules]

He was a Green Beret, let's don't forget that. If there had been "hippie attackers," wouldn't a Green Beret have been able to at least make one of them bleed a little, thus leaving someone else's blood at the scene? (Although I do concede, with the ABO system used to categorize the blood evidence in this trial, that an attacker could have had the same blood type as Collette, Kimberly and/or Kristen, or even MacDonald himself. Does anybody know if the blood evidence is still preserved and if so is DNA testing a possibility?)

And as for his wounds, he was a surgeon, for crying out loud!!! The very people on this earth trained to "wound" human beings without killing them!!!

I have never believed MacDonald's BS.

Very true! As for the DNA testing on the blood found, I don't know the answer to that. However, I'd be willing to bet they'd find no one else was there.

I don't believe Mac's BS either.