NC - Shaniya Davis, 5, Fayetteville, 10 Nov 2009 - Allegedly sold by mother #26

[lbminnesota]

Clearly, neither DCF, nor the school, nor LE, nor any other appropriate channels had been made adequately aware of the deplorable conditions under which Shaniya--and her brother--were living. Werre they notified again once Shaniya was no longer attending school eg... or wasn't anyone even aware of this. Even if DCF failed to take action or address all the issues the first time, more than one call to a social worker was needed.

arrot:

Kiki: I'm not defending any of this, but I'm trying to set aside my own personal values and beliefs and stay focused on how DSS defines acceptable. "Deplorable" is subjective - You and I would never willingly allow a child to live in those conditions but DSS can't operate in the subjective.

I am curious if AD was actually there for the home visit. DSS may have been investigating BD and didn't see AD. I'd assume DSS has a formula for the # of people vs. square footage that's considered acceptable.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Excellent posts today with different perspectives; I have a somewhat different take on the assumptions being made.

IMO - Seems redundant since we know little facts at this point.

Carey was primary caregiver
Don't believe it. Until recently, Shaniya went back and forth between AD and Brad's home in the care of one of his girlfriends. I don't doubt Carey was involved but she was one of many caretakers.

Aunt Carey refers to Shaniya like "one of her own" kids, and characterized herself as a "mother figure" for Shaniya--even she did not attempt to minimize her involvement in this way. :waitasec:

What changed recently was Ty leaving and enrolling Shaniya is Carey's school district. Carey's unemployed without health insurance; tells me she needed to get a job and couldn't provide full-time caretaking to Shaniya. Sad thing is I don't hear any comments about how AD was going to secure daycare while she worked. That to me would be a bigger concern at that time.

If Aunt was seeking work and had no intention nor made no commitment to care for Shaniya, then why was Shaniya enrolled in CDL's school district? Whose decision was that?

Carey was aware of abuse and was forced to hand over Shaniya
Don't believe it. I've only heard defensive comments such as "I wouldn't raise my kids in that way." Since Shaniya has been spending time with AD for the past four years in similar neighborhoods, plenty of opportunities to raise concern.

Exactly. She wouldn't think of her bio kids raised in that manner--but it was good enough for Shaniya. :waitasec:

Carey should have called DSS/Did her own inspection
Why? She never mentioned specific concerns; just vague impressions after the fact. And if she had went inside, what exactly would she have seen. Since we now know DSS conducted a home visit within last two months, she probably would have seen the same as DSS. Messy, cramped, not a place we'd like to live - not enough to remove a child.

Aunt described a history of mistrusting AD specifically because AD "NEGLECTED HER CHILDREN." What did she--or BL--ever do about it?

Brad should have never let this happen
I don't think he let this happen. The visual of the two homes is what this is about. Since he's home maybe once a month, he'd probably spend the same amount of time with Shaniya no matter where she was living. And if DSS had informed him of their visit, he'd be guiltless as they gave the OK.

It's rather legalistic to say, "well DFS gave the green light and said it was cool" Funny how everybody else in that family--even Carey--admits knowing AD wasn't fit to raise Shaniya. And if neither BL nor CDL wanted to, they should have at least raised #ell until she could be placed into a safer more suitable environment--w a caregiver who they didn't know "NEGLECTS her CHILDREN."

(snip, bbm) Hey lbm, please see my responses in green. JMO

arrot:

 

[Bobbisangel]

I thought about BL's time away from Shaniya. It looks like BL was with Shaniya 6 months out of the year. I am basing this on "working one month on and one month off from work."

He still had the responsibility of raising a little girl whether he was gone for a month or more and then back home. He would have to make arrangements with Carey and hopefully he paid her something for keeping Shaniya and for the things she would need. Carey is a single mother with three of her own kids and her finances might have been strained. Without any kids he wouldn't have had any responsibilities at all as far as children are concerned.

I don't understand why he didn't go for total custody when the mother handed Shaniya over to him when she was a baby. I would have wanted that set in stone. I would imagine he knew that the mother wouldn't come back wanting Shaniya or maybe he just didn't bother to make it legal.

I have a hard time believing that the father didn't know the lifestyle the mother lived. What kind was she living when he met her? It probably hadn't changed. The only thing that he seemed to ask was that she be working now.
His stories change so often there is no way we can tell exactly what was what. Seems like he is always trying to make himself look better where giving Shaniya to her mother is concerned. I believe that he had every intention of giving Shaniya to her mother and never going back to pick her up. He had a new woman who possibly didn't want to raise someone elses child and he wanted to be foot loose and fancy free. Remember, his daughter said that his girlfriends did most of the raising of Shaniya....like Ty did. Maybe the new one wasn't going to be a built in babysitter. So it was good bye Shaniya and hello honey. What a dad!

 

[not_my_kids]

Kiki: I'm not defending any of this, but I'm trying to set aside my own personal values and beliefs and stay focused on how DSS defines acceptable. "Deplorable" is subjective - You and I would never willingly allow a child to live in those conditions but DSS can't operate in the subjective.

I am curious if AD was actually there for the home visit. DSS may have been investigating BD and didn't see AD. I'd assume DSS has a formula for the # of people vs. square footage that's considered acceptable.

Usually it's number/age/gender of people combined with number of bedrooms.
I think the standard is two people per bedroom, unless there is an infant.
Two children per bedroom, over a certain age, different genders can't use the same bedroom in some states. Usually, adults may sleep in a common room, no more than one or two, and so can younger children, teens and older children cannot, usually, as they need privacy.
Must be appropriate fire exits (at least two ways out, unobstructed).

But, if the house looked the way it did in those photos that we briefly saw, clear cut environmental neglect.

 

[kiki the parrot]

I'm trying to stay focused until we can get some new info on the real perps here, but the more I hear about BL there was just some sort of disconnect there. Geez, when asked what Shaniya liked to do and what his memories of his beautiful daughter are, all he could come up w (besides scooter scratching his car) was how when HE was watching tv, she would come behind recliner to watch him watch tv... probably hoping for some attention. I mean did he ever do anything w her? I'm sorry, but I'm really just getting the impression BL wasn't involved at all--and could care less where Shaniya was or what she was doing when she wasn't there. JMO

arrot:

 

[adtwah]

I certainly hope the scenario of BL wanting Shaniya out of the picture because GF didn't want to raise her is not true. In that case, GF would look almost as bad as BL would;when you marry a man who is at least in his mid-thirties children by prior marriages are usually part of the deal. It would be very cold for her to say something like "either the kid goes, or I do." Keep in mind I am just speculating, and we don't know what happened. All I can say for sure is that I am curious as to why BL was so determined to get Shaniya out of the picture, even when others offered to care for her. For some reason, he was determined that Shaniya end up with AD.

I do wish BL would quit with the TV appearances because I am not impressed by him. He seems a little too eager to make God responsible for Shaniya's tragedy, although God is not the one who sent Shaniya over to that nest of druggies and felons. He may have been in shock or sedated last night on NG, but in general he does not come off as very sincere to me, since he refuses to take responsibility for what happened to Shaniya. I hope he is sincere about becoming a Children's Advocate, and I hope he is not doing it to start a new career or to make himself look better.

 

[not_my_kids]

I'm trying to stay focused until we can get some new info on the real perps here, but the more I hear about BL there was just some sort of disconnect there. Geez, when asked what Shaniya liked to do and what his memories of his beautiful daughter are, all he could come up w (besides scooter scratching his car) was how when HE was watching tv, she would come behind recliner to watch him watch tv... probably hoping for some attention. I mean did he ever do anything w her? I'm sorry, but I'm really just getting the impression BL wasn't involved at all--and could care less where Shaniya was or what she was doing when she wasn't there. JMO

arrot:

Where did you get that? Just curious, because although I am not defending BL, that was nowhere near the whole story on his favorite memory.

 

[Oriah]

not my kids-

I understand entirely- don't think she is there or that's where her life necessarily ended or any of that. The value is absolutely at this point- in remembering her, helping her find justice, and protecting other children from the same. It just saddens me that there is quite literally, a 3 foot piece of torn and flapping in the wind crime scene tape left behind as a marker... and nothing else.

I personally would like to see a picture of her smiling face big enough for all drivers passing by (it's is a VERY VERY heavily populated highway with few acutal homes- not a neighborhood in that sense at all- but in a very prominent and easily visable spot) with perhaps a printed reminder to keep ones eyes open at all times for the innocent in this world.

Thanks,
Oriah
p.s.- I am a GAL- so do work w/neglected and abused children. The things that some children endure...well. I have no words for.

 

[Patty G]

(snip, bbm) Hey lbm, please see my responses in green. JMO[/COLOR]

arrot:

It's so hard to read the green ...

 

[Patty G]

Where did you get that? Just curious, because although I am not defending BL, that was nowhere near the whole story on his favorite memory.

BL said it on Nancy's Show last night.

 

[not_my_kids]

BL said it on Nancy's Show last night.

Yes, but the version posted was only a tiny part of what he said...it makes it sound like his favorite memory was when she stood there watching, which was not even the first full sentence of the story.

ETA: And if anyone had interpreted it that way, I want it to be based on what he said, not the tiny snippet that I posted in notes last night. Meant to edit that, but I haven't gotten back to it yet.

 

[Patty G]

He still had the responsibility of raising a little girl whether he was gone for a month or more and then back home. He would have to make arrangements with Carey and hopefully he paid her something for keeping Shaniya and for the things she would need. Carey is a single mother with three of her own kids and her finances might have been strained. Without any kids he wouldn't have had any responsibilities at all as far as children are concerned.

I only posted about BL being away 6 months out of the year as this is a lot of time away from family. I am sure that BL provided financially for the care of Shaniya.

 

[not_my_kids]

not my kids-

I understand entirely- don't think she is there or that's where her life necessarily ended or any of that. The value is absolutely at this point- in remembering her, helping her find justice, and protecting other children from the same. It just saddens me that there is quite literally, a 3 foot piece of torn and flapping in the wind crime scene tape left behind as a marker... and nothing else.

I personally would like to see a picture of her smiling face big enough for all drivers passing by (it's is a VERY VERY heavily populated highway with few acutal homes- not a neighborhood in that sense at all- but in a very prominent and easily visable spot) with perhaps a printed reminder to keep ones eyes open at all times for the innocent in this world.

Thanks,
Oriah
p.s.- I am a GAL- so do work w/neglected and abused children. The things that some children endure...well. I have no words for.

I understood, I just have a hard time seeing emotion, time, and money go to things that will be destroyed on the side of the road instead of to help for the living.
I wasn't putting you down, but there is nothing good there, there never will be. I can't see any child wanting their picture posted in the spot where their body was dumped. It's almost like a cruel joke, and it has seemed that way for a long time, to me. That's not just aimed at you, Oriah. The memorial in the trailer park literally makes my stomach turn, so it's just my general opinion.

 

[kiki the parrot]

I think the main difference here with me, is that I don't trust the child welfare system at all.
You can call every day, CPS won't act unless they want to. The workers have discretion, the ones that go to houses and the ones that take the reports. A good deal of reports go straight into the "round file" the minute they are made.

ETA: I guess what I'm getting at is that Carey seems the private type and I don't think she would or will ever say what reports she made and how many times, least not publicly. I know she has reveled some personal things, but that was teh day after the funeral, even I can cut some slack there for her and BL.
I'm not going to hang a woman for protecting her children and following the law. MOO.

Ya know nmk, it gets a little old having another perspective mischaracterized in such extreme, or desparaging, terms. First we're having "illusions," now we want to "hang someone..."

There is something short of that, isn't there? Like learning what we can? I've never suggested hanging or holding her solely responsibile and in fact to the contrary, have emphasized repeatedly that the "real perps" bear the majority of responsibility here. At least one ruthless, treacherous felon who took poor Shaniya to her brutal death. But how did she get there? A bio mom--w at best, no judgment, no proven track record, no demonstrated change of ways, no business having any children in the squalor w her whatsoever, w no housing of her own, nowhere even tenable or habitable for the four already living there, no intention or plan for continuing Shaniya's schooling, no proven history of fit mothering nor responsible choices--allegedly handed her over. How did this beautiful sweet child get there? Her loving dad entrusted her to her caring aunt, it seems, who in turn delivered her to the egg donor who did drugs, consorted w felons, w whose family Shaniya had more than once returned from visits w questionable burns a number of times. I could care less about "hanging" them, I'm just tracing back the endless poor choices which pre-date MAM and even AD, and to which, in all truthfulness, there seems to be no end.

arrot:

 

[Patty G]

Yes, but the version posted was only a tiny part of what he said...it makes it sound like his favorite memory was when she stood there watching, which was not even the first full sentence of the story.

What was previously posted was a "condensed" version.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0911/30/ng.01.html

GRACE: Mr. Lockhart, they really do. They need your voice. And that is something that you can latch onto, something to make you strong.

I remember when my fiance was murdered, I was -- I could hardly even remember the scenario around it. But I knew that I had to represent crime victims. And it changed my whole life.

What is your most vivid memory of Shaniya?

LOCKHART: I used to sit in my recliner all the time and flip through the channel, and Shaniya would always come to the left side of it and just put her hands on the top of the recliner and look over my shoulder and would always give me a kiss and jump on my lap, and just tell me she loved me and just lay there for a little while before it was time for her to go play with her Barbies or something else of interest came across.

GRACE: What were her favorites things to do?

LOCKHART: She liked to color. She was a typical little girl. She had a little tomboy in her. So she was learning how to ride her scooter. Running into the cars, of course, scratching them up. Just real energetic. She loved to play dress up and Barbie and have girl time. Like my son said, you know, she`s really welcome into women, not as welcome into men, of course.

 

[lbminnesota]

I'm trying to stay focused until we can get some new info on the real perps here, but the more I hear about BL there was just some sort of disconnect there. Geez, when asked what Shaniya liked to do and what his memories of his beautiful daughter are, all he could come up w (besides scooter scratching his car) was how when HE was watching tv, she would come behind recliner to watch him watch tv... probably hoping for some attention. I mean did he ever do anything w her? I'm sorry, but I'm really just getting the impression BL wasn't involved at all--and could care less where Shaniya was or what she was doing when she wasn't there. JMO

arrot:

Kiki: He is what he is; last night confirmed it for me (many thanks Patty for taping Nancy Grace show). He doesn't change colors - try to be what we want him to be.

If I could ask Brad a question, it would be...Tell me about Antoinette. Maybe she is this one-dimensional momster from h*ll but he gets very uncomfortable placing direct responsibility on her. The obvious reason is that would imply direct knowledge, but I sense there is more to it.

Still so many things that don't add up. Look forward to some facts.

 

[kiki the parrot]

It's so hard to read the green ...

I'm so sorry Patty :blushing: I've always had to do that because I have memory issues (due to cns lupus) and colored text makes it a little easier to find my posts when I'm in search of them. Please forgive me, I don't mean to make it hard for anyone.

arrot:

 

[not_my_kids]

Ya know nmk, it gets a little old having another perspective or characterized in such extreme, or desparaging, terms. First we're having "illusions," now we want to "hang someone..."

There is something short of that, isn't there? Like learning what we can? I've never suggested hanging or holding her solely responsibile and in fact to the contrary, have emphasized repeatedly that the "real perps" bear the majority of responsibility here. At least one ruthless, treacherous felon who took poor Shaniya to her brutal death. But how did she get there? A bio mom--w at best, no judgment, no proven track record, no demonstrated change of ways, no business having any children in the squalor w her whatsoever, w no housing of her own, nowhere even tenable or habitable for the four already living there, no intention or plan for continuing Shaniya's schooling, no proven history of fit mothering nor responsible choices--allegedly handed her over. How did this beautiful sweet child get there? Her loving dad entrusted her to her caring aunt, it seems, who in turn delivered her to the egg donor who did drugs, consorted w felons, w whose family Shaniya had more than once returned from visits w questionable burns a number of times. I could care less about "hanging" them, I'm just tracing back the endless poor choices which pre-date MAM and even AD, and to which, in all truthfulness, there seems to be no end.

arrot:

No, you twisted that statement a bit. I said I wasn't going to hang her for it. Speaking to my own tendency to go a bit overboard when I believe something. MY tendency, not yours. If I had meant you or anyone on the board, I would have said it. If that was disparaging, it was disparaging towards myself.
I respect your opinions and I always have . The whole board stops when you post, because we all respect you and pay attention to what you have to say.

And I do believe that the idea that the child welfare system will react when called is an illusion. I didn't say delusion which would have been disparaging. I retyped that three times to find the word I thought fit. I was in foster care, on and off, for 15 years, and I know that they don't always come when they're called.

As to why she was there, I would like to know that too, because I fully believe that she should have never been.

 

[Oriah]

not my kids,

Hmm, doesn't seem like a cruel joke to me but I think I do understand what you are saying. Could seem that way to some. The vigil at the trailer park bothered me also, but I also think I understand how those (innocent) residents might feel. Graveyards also bother some. Guess I'm one of those that find comfort in knowing that at least she was found...and for me, a reminder everyday of how just the slightest extra bit of attention might save or change a childs' life.

I'll just keep putting flowers there, if only for the countless volunteers (and dogs) who beat through miles of kudzu looking for her. I know many of them drive by and think the same thing.
And truthfully- there is my one other concern- that there is no memorial not for the reasons you specified (which I do understand) but because she was neglected, and black, and appears to have come from a drug-ridden/trailer-park environment where children simply fall off the radar more easily.

Oriah

Oriah

 

[kiki the parrot]

Kiki: I'm not defending any of this, but I'm trying to set aside my own personal values and beliefs and stay focused on how DSS defines acceptable. "Deplorable" is subjective - You and I would never willingly allow a child to live in those conditions but DSS can't operate in the subjective.

I am curious if AD was actually there for the home visit. DSS may have been investigating BD and didn't see AD. I'd assume DSS has a formula for the # of people vs. square footage that's considered acceptable.

(bbm) Eviction proceedings had begun on what wasn't even her place to begin w. And the conditions were deplorable by anyone's standards. The place had to be evacuated fgs.

Yes, but the version posted was only a tiny part of what he said...it makes it sound like his favorite memory was when she stood there watching, which was not even the first full sentence of the story.

Yes I guess we all have "versions" otherwise known as opinions--but again the word implies this isn't a true assessment. You have your "version" (your opinion and impression) and *I* have mine and I would appreciate being able to express it as that is exactly what I took away from BL interview. Patty posted the link to the NG show. THAT's where I saw it, and THAT's where I got it. JMO

arrot: