NC - Two Duke Lacrosse Players Indicted

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William N said:
There is a difference between the Duke case and the other rape cases involving athletes. In the Kobe Bryant case, for example, Bryant admitted from the start that he had sex with the girl. He claimed it was consensual, as he knew that DNA would show this.

Last year's Navy quarterback (and a much more prominent athlete than Duke lacrosse players) has undergone the military equivalent of a grand jury hearing over a rape of a female cadet. He was in her room, but claims it was consensual.

The Duke lacrosse players, however, claim there was no contact with the AV. There was no DNA found of the players, but there was for the AV's boyfriend. So, there isn't proof that any of the Duke players had sex with the AV, or of rape.

Last weekend, a former NYC detective was on Kimberley Guilfoyle's Lineup show. He said that if he sent this case to the DA, it would be thrown out. He even said that Kimberley, herself, wouldn't file it in her days as a prosecutor. She did not dispute him.

As I recall, initially, Kobe denied even having sex, but, after they asked him to give his DNA, Kobe changed his tune to "consenual sex". On several ocaasions, Kobe's defense team really outflanked the prosecutor. Otherwise, given the witnesses and supporting evidence, if the case had gone to trial, I think he might well have been convicted.

Nifong has neither DNA nor any resemblance of a quality witness in the form of alleged victim, nor does he have quality evidence from elsewhere. His only ace-in-the-hole would be a Durham jury (not to be taken lightly).

As for Kimberely, she often argues like Wendy Murphy and Nancy Grace, i.e., arguments for the braindead only. I discount most anything they say.
 
A one minute call to her escort service. Neither defense or prosecution would discuss the phone records for the AV cellphone. Call occurred at 12:26 AM.

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall during that phone conversation.

http://www.newsobserver.com/122/story/459759.html

Sorry,interesting spelling of misdemeanor in my previous post :(

Sherlockmom
 
>If this doesn't knock the whole thing out of the water......<<



Unless she was calling the escort service for "Help!! Help!!! I'm being raped by 20, er make that 10, no, on second count it's only 3 guys!!!"

Of course she wouldn't want to call the police. Nah, that would be too easy.

It seems that she worked for more than one escort service as well. Hadn't seen this one mentioned before. I thought she worked for the Bunnyhop or something like that.

Sherlockmom
 
Jeana (DP) said:
very interesting . . .


As I think you have discovered, D.A.s in North Carolina have a problem with following their Brady obligations, and they often keep exculpatory/exonerating evidence from the defense . And because the assessment of what is exculpatory/exonerating evidence resides with the D.A.'s office, I can picture Nifong saying that this alleged phone call would not favor the defense. (just a thought)
 
Wudge said:
As I think you have discovered, D.A.s in North Carolina have a problem with following their Brady obligations, and they often keep exculpatory/exonerating evidence from the defense . And because the assessment of what is exculpatory/exonerating evidence resides with the D.A.'s office, I can picture Nifong saying that this alleged phone call would not favor the defense. (just a thought)


Well I know this one does. I don't know about all of them. He needs to assign this case to someone else. I'd like to know what the judge is thinking about all this.
 
Jeana (DP) said:
Well I know this one does. I don't know about all of them. He needs to assign this case to someone else. I'd like to know what the judge is thinking about all this.

None of the defense lawyers, at any time, have commented on this alleged phone call as evidence that favors the defense. If this is significant new news, I have to wonder: Why are they not hitting the airways?
 
Wudge said:
None of the defense lawyers, at any time, have commented on this alleged phone call as evidence that favors the defense. If this is significant new news, I have to wonder: Why are they not hitting the airways?


Because we don't yet know if it does. They don't know why she tried to call her company. As someone else mentioned, it could have been to try and get help. Maybe she just hit redial. Of course, I don't personally believe that, but you can see that until they talk to the person who answered that phone, if anyone, its an unknown. Why get up and say something that may come back to haunt them? So far, they're doing pretty good at making Nifong look like the biggest jackass we've seen in sometime.
 
Jeana (DP) said:
Because we don't yet know if it does. They don't know why she tried to call her company. As someone else mentioned, it could have been to try and get help. Maybe she just hit redial. Of course, I don't personally believe that, but you can see that until they talk to the person who answered that phone, if anyone, its an unknown. Why get up and say something that may come back to haunt them? So far, they're doing pretty good at making Nifong look like the biggest jackass we've seen in sometime.


Yes, that's similar to my thinking that this may not be worth much, if anything, to the defense. Because, if it were, I would expect that at least one of the defense lawyers would be using it to beat Nifong senseless, yet again.
 
>Yes, that's similar to my thinking that this may not be worth much, if anything, to the defense. Because, if it were, I would expect that at least one of the defense lawyers would be using it to beat Nifong senseless, yet again<


It sure does narrow down the window of time that can be allowed for 3 guys to rape this woman. One of the accused, I believe it is Reade, is on videotape somewhere else at 12:24 so he wasn't at the party when she made this call. The photographs taken of the girls dancing are time stamped sometime after midnight but before this phone call. What would be interesting to know is what was said during this conversation. If she made no mention of any rape and just asked for a ride home?

What was really interesting about the article was that it mentioned that the phone call was not investigated by the police. Why not?

The phone calls made by the AV, the other dancer and the boys are all critical to the time line I believe. There is alot of documentation for the calls, the photos, the security camera at the ATM machine etc.

Notice that neither the defense or pros. is talking about these phone calls. I think it may be because of the timeline. Nifong knows this rape never occurred. He is hard pressed to come up with a timeframe for which this rape may have occurred. The victim claimed it went on for 30 min.

Okay.. She arrives between 11:40 and midnight. There are photos with the time stamped on them for around midnight. She claims she only danced a few minutes and left the room to go to the bathroom at 12:04. At 12:24 Reade is gone and photographed by a security camera. So that leaves 20 minutes. Between 12:05 and 12:24 Reade made 8 cellphone calls. When did he rape the AV? While talking on the phone? The victim never mentioned any of the accused talking on his cellphone during the rape. The taxi driver picked him up at 12:19 and phone records show he called for the taxi at 12:15. Do most rapists call for a taxi during the crime?

Most of the times I got from the WRAL website that has an interactive section on the case with a timeline.

Finnerty's parents also have stated that phone and dorm records will prove that their son is innocent.

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/14945785.htm

The defense has also stated that the timeline and phone records are important to proving their client's innocence but since I believe that this will be crucial to the case they are not going to reveal all of their stratergy. Nifong, on the other hand has not specified a timeframe for when he believes the alleged rape occurred.

The defense has so much going for it between the lack of DNA evidence, the timeline and an AV who would never withstand cross examination (that's if anyone thinks she'll actually ever appear in court).

I would so hate to be the prosecutor in this case.

Sherlockmom
 
I knew that the accuser had previously also accused her ex-husband of "rape," but I hadn't heard that she had also previously accused a "group" of men of raping her as well - when she was 14 years old. Here's a link to the police report:

APRIL 28--A decade before accusing three Duke University lacrosse players of rape, a North Carolina woman claimed to have been sexually assaulted by a trio of men when she was a teenager. In 1996, the woman, now 27, told police that three attackers had assaulted her several years earlier, when she was 14. The woman's first rape claim was recorded in August 1996 by police in Creedmoor, N.C., though none of the men she identified as her assailants were ever charged. A copy of the Creedmoor Police Department report can be found below

here:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0428061duke1.html
 
Sherlockmom said:
>If this doesn't knock the whole thing out of the water......<<



Unless she was calling the escort service for "Help!! Help!!! I'm being raped by 20, er make that 10, no, on second count it's only 3 guys!!!"

Of course she wouldn't want to call the police. Nah, that would be too easy.

It seems that she worked for more than one escort service as well. Hadn't seen this one mentioned before. I thought she worked for the Bunnyhop or something like that.

Sherlockmom
A lot of escort services will have 3 or four different names and different numbers, but essentially be the same service.
 
Jeana (DP) said:
Because we don't yet know if it does. They don't know why she tried to call her company. As someone else mentioned, it could have been to try and get help. Maybe she just hit redial. Of course, I don't personally believe that, but you can see that until they talk to the person who answered that phone, if anyone, its an unknown. Why get up and say something that may come back to haunt them? So far, they're doing pretty good at making Nifong look like the biggest jackass we've seen in sometime.
A lot of times girls will callthe service to let them know they have arrived, gotten paid up front and are offically starting the meter for the hour.
 
>I understand pre-trial motions are happening today. Anyone hear anything yet?<


"The cards can be used to purchase items and gain access to campus buildings. Attorneys for the uncharged players argued Monday that information is protected by federal privacy laws and that Nifong's May 31 subpoenas seeking the records were flawed.


The subpoenas also sought a list of the uncharged players' home addresses, which Nifong said he needed to ensure he could call the players to testify at a trial unlikely to begin before spring 2007."

http://www.wral.com/news/9530187/detail.html
 
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