NC - Two Duke Lacrosse Players Indicted

[Floh]

Key Evidence Supports Alibi in Potential Rape Defense for One Indicted Duke Player

Over the last few days, sources close to the defense have given ABC News an exclusive look at the evidence behind one player's alleged alibi — evidence that includes electronic records, photographs and witness statements. If that material is authentic, it could prove that it was practically impossible for him to rape, kidnap or assault the alleged victim.

Seligmann's argument is simple: He is innocent and he has an alibi. He attended the party that night, but documents, photos and witness testimony show that he wasn't there long enough or at the right time to attack the alleged victim.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/LegalCenter/story?id=1858806&page=1

did Seligmann have the time, much less the will, to commit a violent, sexual crime?​

 

[Details]

The will - a lot of rapists seem like ordinary guys - except to their victims. The time - that's more of the question.

 

[Wudge]

Key Evidence Supports Alibi in Potential Rape Defense for One Indicted Duke Player

Over the last few days, sources close to the defense have given ABC News an exclusive look at the evidence behind one player's alleged alibi — evidence that includes electronic records, photographs and witness statements. If that material is authentic, it could prove that it was practically impossible for him to rape, kidnap or assault the alleged victim.

Seligmann's argument is simple: He is innocent and he has an alibi. He attended the party that night, but documents, photos and witness testimony show that he wasn't there long enough or at the right time to attack the alleged victim.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/LegalCenter/story?id=1858806&page=1

did Seligmann have the time, much less the will, to commit a violent, sexual crime?​

Given the absence of DNA evidence, if she cannot be trusted to be a highly reliable eyewitness, the D.A should throw the case right out the window.

 

[Floh]

Accuser ID'd Lacrosse Players By Scratches On Their Bodies

An exotic dancer who says three Duke lacrosse players raped her may have identified two of them based on photographs that show scratches on their bodies, a defense attorney said Wednesday.


http://www.wral.com/news/8820200/detail.html

I'm annoyed i can't find stories from the woman's side, but for the time being this is it. i in no way am flying a flag for the accused.

so far, i'm not flying a flag for the alleged victim either and am awaiting more evidence to arise.

 

[Wudge]

Accuser ID'd Lacrosse Players By Scratches On Their Bodies

An exotic dancer who says three Duke lacrosse players raped her may have identified two of them based on photographs that show scratches on their bodies, a defense attorney said Wednesday.


http://www.wral.com/news/8820200/detail.html

I'm annoyed i can't find stories from the woman's side, but for the time being this is it. i in no way am flying a flag for the accused.

so far, i'm not flying a flag for the alleged victim either and am awaiting more evidence to arise.

It appears that a taxi cab driver will fly the flag for one of the accused. Plus, if he did withdraw money from an ATM, the ATM's camera will likely be able to show his face, timestamped.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/LegalCenter/story?id=1858806&page=1

 

[CordovaMom]

Accuser ID'd Lacrosse Players By Scratches On Their Bodies

An exotic dancer who says three Duke lacrosse players raped her may have identified two of them based on photographs that show scratches on their bodies, a defense attorney said Wednesday.


http://www.wral.com/news/8820200/detail.html

I'm annoyed i can't find stories from the woman's side, but for the time being this is it. i in no way am flying a flag for the accused.

so far, i'm not flying a flag for the alleged victim either and am awaiting more evidence to arise.

I'd feel better about the ID of the accused in this case if I had learned that she picked them out of a photo lineup that included others that were not members of the lacrosse team.

 

[caffeinatd]

She allegedly picked these 2 because they had scratches, seems like it would have been more credible if she had picked from a line-up, all without shirts, that included others, not just pics of the lacrosse team members, I agree. Many people have scrtches, from various things.

http://www.wral.com/news/8820200/detail.html

 

[Wudge]

I'd feel better about the ID of the accusers in this case if I had learned that she picked them out of a photo lineup that included others that were not members of the lacrosse team.

She said that she clawed at her attackers, yet no DNA evidence was recovered from her fingernails -- her fake nails were later found in the bathroom.

In all honesty, given the absence of inculpatory DNA evidence, if the D.A. accepted her identification of these young men via scrath marks she saw on their bodies and he thought that identification methodology would pass for "proof beyond a reasonable doubt", then he should just leave his office now. For, all things considered, to do so would not only represent poor prosecutorial judgment, it would be asinine.

 

[Wudge]

She allegedly picked these 2 because they had scratches, seems like it would have been more credible if she had picked from a line-up, all without shirts, that included others, not just pics of the lacrosse team members, I agree. Many people have scrtches, from various things.

http://www.wral.com/news/8820200/detail.html

Typically, lacrosse players would have scrathes, bumps, bruises et al.

 

[caffeinatd]

Typically, lacrosse players would have scrathes, bumps, bruises et al.

My thoughts exactly

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm trying to keep an open mind here, but if it turns out that one of the guys she is accusing has a pretty solid alibi with ATM photograph, etc., I'm going to have a pretty darn hard time believing this is anything more than a big fat scam. I'm still trying to figure out why she'd do it though. I still don't believe the money angle.

 

[Summerskye1]

I don't know how much credence to give this article. The article basically only says that one of the defense attorneys says that it is possible that the accuser based her positive ID's on bodily scratches on the players.

I personally am not that interested in this anonymous defense attorney's guesses about how the AV ID'ed the defendants.

(This is not meant as a knock on the person who posted the link to the article...it's only my opinion about the significance of the article itself)

 

[Masissy]

I'm trying to keep an open mind here, but if it turns out that one of the guys she is accusing has a pretty solid alibi with ATM photograph, etc., I'm going to have a pretty darn hard time believing this is anything more than a big fat scam. I'm still trying to figure out why she'd do it though. I still don't believe the money angle.

I am right there with you JeanaDP. This case is really complicated.

 

[Wudge]

I'm trying to keep an open mind here, but if it turns out that one of the guys she is accusing has a pretty solid alibi with ATM photograph, etc., I'm going to have a pretty darn hard time believing this is anything more than a big fat scam. I'm still trying to figure out why she'd do it though. I still don't believe the money angle.

We do not have corroboration for the reported scrath identification methodology, nor do we have corroboration for defense truly having proof of absence at the time of the alleged rape -- via taxi car driver testimony, ATM receipt, etc. -- but, given what we do know, if such were to be true, only a politics oriented D.A, and a biased jury could carry the day for the State.

Nonetheless, in my mind, a politics oriented D.A. appears to be present and accounted for, and Durham could easily seat a biased jury.

 

[Floh]

I don't know how much credence to give this article. The article basically only says that one of the defense attorneys says that it is possible that the accuser based her positive ID's on bodily scratches on the players.

I personally am not that interested in this anonymous defense attorney's guesses about how the AV ID'ed the defendants.

(This is not meant as a knock on the person who posted the link to the article...it's only my opinion about the significance of the article itself)

And i don't take it as a knock - question, question, question is what must be done.

i most certainly agree the anonymous defense attorney's 'statement' is questionable.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

We do not have corroboration for the reported scrath identification methodology, nor do we have corroboration for defense truly having proof of absence at the time of the alleged rape -- via taxi car driver testimony, ATM receipt, etc. -- but, given what we do know, if such were to be true, only a politics oriented D.A, and a biased jury could carry the day for the State.

Nonetheless, in my mind, a politics oriented D.A. appears to be present and accounted for and Durham could easily seat a biased jury.

We don't have "corroboration" for anything - yet. If they can show photographs of her arriving all banged and bruised up and if they can show photographs of one of the accused standing in front of an ATM machine far enough away that it was impossible for him to be back at the frat house raping a dancer, then I think it would be pretty tough for the DA to convict. Of course, I already know how you feel about the race angle here and while I think that you've got a point, I still try and think above all that, at least until its impossible not to. Okay by you?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

DURHAM, North Carolina (CNN) -- Duke University has suspended two of its lacrosse players who were arrested Tuesday on rape and kidnapping charges, a source familiar with the investigation said Wednesday.

The suspension is effective until the case is resolved, the source said.

Reade Seligmann, 20, and Collin Finnerty, 19, are charged with raping an exotic dancer the Blue Devil lacrosse team hired to entertain at an off-campus party on March 13. Seligmann and Finnerty are each charged with first-degree sexual offense, first-degree forcible rape and first-degree kidnapping. (Watch what neighbor says about suspect -- 2:26)

Attorneys for Finnerty and Seligmann have maintained their clients are innocent.


more at:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/19/duke.arrests/index.html

 

[close_enough]

party photos...this may have been posted already

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4091290

 

[IdahoMom]

party photos...this may have been posted already

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4091290

http://www.nbc17.com/news/8830631/detail.html

 

[Wudge]

We don't have "corroboration" for anything - yet. If they can show photographs of her arriving all banged and bruised up and if they can show photographs of one of the accused standing in front of an ATM machine far enough away that it was impossible for him to be back at the frat house raping a dancer, then I think it would be pretty tough for the DA to convict. Of course, I already know how you feel about the race angle here and while I think that you've got a point, I still try and think above all that, at least until its impossible not to. Okay by you?

Hold to the presumption of innocence, corroborate all, then assess, guage and decide.

Still, before issuing an indictment, the D.A. should certainly have known about this alleged proof of absence. That makes a part of me wonder and say: No prosecutor could be that stupid. However, the better part of me says: Have you learned nothing, never trust a prosecutor; they do not wear white hats -- especially in North Carolina.