NC - Two Duke Lacrosse Players Indicted

[Jeana (DP)]

don
Not seeing anyting, but having a really strong gut feeling doesn't count for much.

This whole thing seems to me like another example of the consequences of sleaziness on everybody's part -- rich or poor, black or white, equal opportunity sleaziness. Do they EVER consider that when there's drinking and promiscuity bad things are more likely to happen?
Am I just too old fashioned in wishing that parents would tell their kids that getting wasted with the boys/girls at a party and/or becoming a stripper increases your risk of trouble?
How many of them will be right back partying, talking trash, and ending up talking with the police next weekend?
JMO, but it bothers me when parents say "What can I do? Kids do what they want."
Would it make a difference if parents were more involved or are most parents in the same weekend party haze themselves?
Of course the lacrosse guys are all lawyered up and the families are publicly supporting them - there are reputations at stake --
I hope they get to the truth in this one...

This kind of thing definately is a good learning tool for the rest of us who are trying to tell our kids that you can get into trouble just being at the wrong place at the wrong time. If I was spending about $60K a semester for my kid to be at Duke, I think a butt kicking would be in order . . . .

 

[Jeana (DP)]

"Although I am no celebrity and just an average citizen, I've found myself in the center of one of the biggest stories in the country," Roberts wrote in an e-mail to 5W Public Relations obtained by FOX News. "I'm worried about letting this opportunity pass me by without making the best of it and was wondering if you had any advice as to how to spin this to my advantage."

* * *

Roberts, 31, was arrested on March 22 — eight days after the party — on a probation violation from a 2001 conviction for embezzling $25,000 from a photofinishing company in Durham where she was a payroll specialist, according to documents obtained by the AP.

On Monday, a judge agreed to a change so that Roberts would no longer have to pay a 15 percent fee to a bonding agent. District Attorney Mike Nifong signed a document saying he would not oppose the change.

"It seems she is receiving very favorable financial treatment for what she is now saying," Thomas said.



More at:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192565,00.html

 

[CordovaMom]

On Abrams Report -- Accuser only shown photos of Duke Lacrosse players to identify suspects.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have a real problem with this.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

For a variety of reasons, the clear majority of Americans "want" to believe that people are guilty. That's why crimetainment sells so amazingly well; it gives "wanting" Americans exactly what they desire, a surely "guilty" person(s) they can scum over with or without reliable, valid and sufficient incriminating evidence.

Watch high-profile cases on TV and you will find that "guilty" sells; but "innocent" means channel changing is taking place. Watch internet crime forums, and you will find that if exculpatory evidence comes out, "guilties" start to quickly disappear.

Innocent will not sell National Enquirers; guilty will clear the shelves in nanoseconds.

Wanting "guilt" destroys our presumption of innocence standard. Today, presumed guilty has become our cultural standard, because guilt is desired, not innocence.

Like drugs, nothing good comes of "wanting guilt", nothing. It is a pox on our society.

I totally agree with you.
It's easy to want to have a villian to blame, loathe, pin up and shout vulgar things at. But then, that is doing just what the accused is being accused of!
It makes no sense.

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and keep an open mind. When emotions are involved, that's tough to do.
But I don't like the way the media is handling this one bit. They are going after the young men as if they know - as you mentioned - what noone but the accused and the accuser know for sure.
That's just wrong.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

"Although I am no celebrity and just an average citizen, I've found myself in the center of one of the biggest stories in the country," Roberts wrote in an e-mail to 5W Public Relations obtained by FOX News. "I'm worried about letting this opportunity pass me by without making the best of it and was wondering if you had any advice as to how to spin this to my advantage."

More at:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192565,00.html

Ok ... that sentence in bold concerns me.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Ok ... that sentence in bold concerns me.

You just said a cotton pickin mouthful there. I'm glad all this is coming out before a judge issues a gag order, but honestly that should have been done a LONNNNGGGGG time ago.

Edited to add, I don't think I'd be going with a PR firm who let that email from me get out. :doh: :doh: :doh:

 

[caffeinatd]

On Abrams Report -- Accuser only shown photos of Duke Lacrosse players to identify suspects.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have a real problem with this.

That is true, when they came in for DNA, they were all photographed from the waist up, without clothing. I heard that 1st names were with the pics, but that may or may not be true. Seems like a lot of speculation around here in Durham..depends on where you are, what you hear. I also heard that she probably knew the families financial staus before she ID'd...seems a little odd that she would pick the 2 wealthiest, altho, they were the two that had scratches I heard.

 

[caffeinatd]

On Abrams Report -- Accuser only shown photos of Duke Lacrosse players to identify suspects.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have a real problem with this.

Here is a news link to the photo lineup..it was just on the 6pm news...

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4104459


"Eyewitness News was allowed to look at the 15-page document describing the process. The accuser looked at pictures of 46 lacrosse players on April 4 in a police department Powerpoint presentation. She would look at a picture, then see a blank screen before looking at the next image. "
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?????:waitasec:

 

[Jeana (DP)]

That is true, when they came in for DNA, they were all photographed from the waist up, without clothing. I heard that 1st names were with the pics, but that may or may not be true. Seems like a lot of speculation around here in Durham..depends on where you are, what you hear. I also heard that she probably knew the families financial staus before she ID'd...seems a little odd that she would pick the 2 wealthiest, altho, they were the two that had scratches I heard.

I think we need to call Colonel Mustard and find out where the missing DNA is. I mean its possible, I guess, but whoda thunk that in this day and age, someone could put up a 30 minute struggle with more than one person and not one shred of DNA could be found anywhere, including the left behind fingernails that supposedly did the scratching. :twocents:

 

[Masterj]

Do you think they ran a toxology test on her at the hospital? I am just curious as to whether or not she was tested for any kind of drugs or anything. I guess I am wondering if 1. she may have been slipped something or 2. she was already on something.

 

[caffeinatd]

tox screens are not part of a rape kit. Blood maybe collected and put in the kit for DNA match. There are fairly new guidlines for what can and cannot be collected and tested in emergency rooms as standard tests. It would depend how she was acting, it no longer is ok to collect a MBA if you just smell alcohol, they pretty much have to be unconscious to be allowed to send one, and it has to make a difference in the care that would be provided. SOme physicians still order various tests...hope they did that night.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

tox screens are not part of a rape kit. Blood maybe collected and put in the kit for DNA match. There are fairly new guidlines for what can and cannot be collected and tested in emergency rooms as standard tests. It would depend how she was acting, it no longer is ok to collect a MBA if you just smell alcohol, they pretty much have to be unconscious to be allowed to send one, and it has to make a difference in the care that would be provided. SOme physicians still order various tests...hope they did that night.

Some date rape drugs don't show in those tests, I think. But for the ones that do, would they also show up in a hair strand test?

 

[Wudge]

I think we need to call Colonel Mustard and find out where the missing DNA is. I mean its possible, I guess, but whoda thunk that in this day and age, someone could put up a 30 minute struggle with more than one person and not one shred of DNA could be found anywhere, including the left behind fingernails that supposedly did the scratching. :twocents:

The second stripper writes a PR firm asking if this can be spinned, -- $$ in her eyes, obviously. What a witness for the State she would make.

The D.A., Michael Nifong, is a complete moron for bringing this case to the Grand Jury. He is an even bigger dodo for not cutting his loses short. Still, he may remain the favorite to win the election, for Durham officials represent dodo central.

 

[Wudge]

Some date rape drugs don't show in those tests, I think. But for the ones that do, would they also show up in a hair strand test?

As best I know, hair strand tests reveal minerals. All of the minerals in your body would show up in a hair strand test, but I doubt that most drugs would, unless they left a toxic residue.

 

[caffeinatd]

drugs can be detected in hair strands. Many of the date rape drugs have been dected (in studies) up to 28 days after ingestion. So I don't think that it proves anything...could have been slipped to her the night before or weeks before...there are some articles on the web, that many employers are drug testing with hair b/c it does show past abuse better than blood/urine

 

[Wudge]

drugs can be detected in hair strands. Many of the date rape drugs have been dected (in studies) up to 28 days after ingestion. So I don't think that it proves anything...could have been slipped to her the night before or weeks before...there are some articles on the web, that many employers are drug testing with hair b/c it does show past abuse better than blood/urine

My recollection is that the half-life of date rape drugs is very short, so that surprises me. The body's metabloic process must leave a unique marker; though I doubt it would be toxic residue, very interesting.

Are you talking about detection via hair strand analyses or otherwise?

 

[caffeinatd]

Excerpt from an article with the link...​

​

"Benzodiazepines are the most common so-called “rape​

drugs” with flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) mentioned most
​

frequently. Negrush and coworkers​

​

53 designed a study in
​

which 10 volunteers, 8 women and 2 men, with various
​

hair pigmentation and treatment participated. The aim
​

of the study was to ascertain whether flunitrazepam and
​

its major metabolite 7-aminoflunitrazepam could be detected
​

in hair collected from volunteers after receiving
​

a single 2 mg dose of Rohypnol using GC/MS/NCI. The
​

hair samples were collected from volunteers just before
​

administration and then 1, 3, 5, 14, 21, 28 days after. For
​

analysis of each sample were used 1.5 cm lenghts from
​

the root side, pulverized and 50 mg aliquots digested. The
​

metabolite was detected after 24 hours in five volunteers
​

and remained in hair throughout the entire study period
​

(0.6–8.0 pg/mg). In two volunteers the metabolite appeared
​

in hair 14 days after the drug intake (0.5–5.4 pg/
​

mg) and in other 2 volunteers 21 days after the intake
​

(0.5–2.7 pg/mg)"
​

http://publib.upol.cz/~obd/fulltext/Biomed/2005/2/199.pdf

 

[Wudge]

Excerpt from an article with the link...​

​

"Benzodiazepines are the most common so-called “rape​

drugs” with flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) mentioned most
​

frequently. Negrush and coworkers​

​

53 designed a study in
​

which 10 volunteers, 8 women and 2 men, with various
​

hair pigmentation and treatment participated. The aim
​

of the study was to ascertain whether flunitrazepam and
​

its major metabolite 7-aminoflunitrazepam could be detected
​

in hair collected from volunteers after receiving
​

a single 2 mg dose of Rohypnol using GC/MS/NCI. The
​

hair samples were collected from volunteers just before
​

administration and then 1, 3, 5, 14, 21, 28 days after. For
​

analysis of each sample were used 1.5 cm lenghts from
​

the root side, pulverized and 50 mg aliquots digested. The
​

metabolite was detected after 24 hours in five volunteers
​

and remained in hair throughout the entire study period
​

(0.6–8.0 pg/mg). In two volunteers the metabolite appeared
​

in hair 14 days after the drug intake (0.5–5.4 pg/
​

mg) and in other 2 volunteers 21 days after the intake
​

(0.5–2.7 pg/mg)"
​

http://publib.upol.cz/~obd/fulltext/Biomed/2005/2/199.pdf

So even with an extremely short half life, a metabolic marker is created.

(salute)

 

[Jeana (DP)]

So even with an extremely short half life, a metabolic marker is created.

(salute)

Good work. Thanks!!

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

On Abrams Report -- Accuser only shown photos of Duke Lacrosse players to identify suspects.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have a real problem with this.

That's enough to get the ID thrown out in the court of appeals. Or it would if if the police had shown a victim a phot ID line up composed entirely of members of the same gang, wihout some ringers/cops thrown in.