NC - Two Duke Lacrosse Players Indicted

[angelmom]

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. — Kirk Osborn, a lead defense attorney in the Duke lacrosse sexual assault case, died early Sunday, a fellow defense attorney in the case said.

Osborn had a massive heart attack on Friday and died shortly before 1 a.m. Sunday, attorney Joe Cheshire said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,261127,00.html

this is so sad. He was really young. My dad will be 64 in May!

He really worked hard to prove these guys were innocent.

 

[Paladin]

I'm calling this guy Nifong guy Nithong from now on. Maybe he saw the stripper in hers and went gaga for her by pushing this case as far as he has.

 

[calus_3]

I am going to have to bulk reply because there were too many to counter.

This crap about still considering this a victim and no prosecuting her is crap. I am sorry.

If a man rapes a woman, he should have his balls cut off. No question about it.

However, I can't believe me eyes that someone would just choose to ignore this victim's behavior....instead looking to punish nifrog only. How clearly ignorant is that position? You guys say that if nifrog hadn't been pursuing a personal agenda, none of this would have happened. Yeah, sure....but there would still be the case where this accused innocent men of rape. What say ye about that? Oh, well she's just miguided and .... nonsense.

The woman lied because apparently the boys didn't like a drugged up, drunk stripper arriving bleeding from falling down or being beat down by her pimp and apparently refused to pay her. She lied, first saying it was almost all of the players and then thought better of that. She then said it was only three, but misidentifed one that wasn't even there at the time and said that one was missing his moustache that he had at the party (yet pictures of him before the strippers arrived shows no moustache). When her story didn't mesh on timelines, she changed that. When the investigators started putting the screws to her, she changed the story about actually being raped and the charges were dropped. When nifrog was removed after the DNA evidence showed without a doubt she was lying, and the new team of DA's started asking pointed questions about her inconsistencies, she clammed up as did the other .

I understand the point some are TRYING to make with regards to nifrog....and I wholeheartedly agree. It should have stopped with him. However, this isn't a case of some woman recanting and saying "no, I was drunk when I made that accusation, nothing ever happened". No, she let this go on and on and on and let the reputations of these men be dragged through the mud, ruined their college careers, cost a coach his job, cancelled the Duke Lacross season, cost the college millions in tickets, concessions, etc. All because she got mad at these boys because they were apparently not happy....she was overheard saying something to the effect that "I am going to get my money from them white boys".

Seems that some want to just let this off because....well, because WHY? Why wouldn't you prosecute her if you were the DA making the decisions?

Well, I guess those players were men so they deserved it, right? They don't deserve to be free from false charges, do they? They are rich so they deserve what they got on some level? Men have been raping women for centuries, so it is okay that these three didn't actually do it because so many got away with it prior to them.

Both of those are just as culpable as nifrog and ALL of them should be convicted. Don't forget there is a little known statute called obstruction of justice.

WOW, my opinion of some people here just was downgraded.

Cal

 

[angelmom]

No no no, cal, please don't think so badly of me! I really, really feel for these boys, and think both of these women are pretty horrible.

My point was that I am not as worried about them being prosecuted - they both should be for making false statements, but what kind of misdemeanor crap is that? - but that they are not what really worries me.

Read your own post:

The woman lied because apparently the boys didn't like a drugged up, drunk stripper arriving bleeding from falling down or being beat down by her pimp and apparently refused to pay her. She lied, first saying it was almost all of the players and then thought better of that. She then said it was only three, but misidentifed one that wasn't even there at the time and said that one was missing his moustache that he had at the party (yet pictures of him before the strippers arrived shows no moustache). When her story didn't mesh on timelines, she changed that. When the investigators started putting the screws to her, she changed the story about actually being raped and the charges were dropped. When nifrog was removed after the DNA evidence showed without a doubt she was lying, and the new team of DA's started asking pointed questions about her inconsistencies, she clammed up as did the other .

All this, and yet Nifong and the police still went forward. How many other women who do the same thing with an accused rapist much less "sexy" to the media machine than the Duke Lacrosse Team - for Heaven's Sake! - would have gotten past the front door! As soon as she was questioned hard by someone besides Nifong, she stopped throwing accusations around.

We are making the same point! These guys got dragged through all of this for who they are. But while you are saying it is her fault, that she saw money, I am saying it is the police and Nifong who scare me b/c they saw it as a chance to score political points.

People do sometimes make false accusations for whatever reason. We pay taxes and elect officials not to find people guilty, but to find truth justice. Nifong and LE in this dept were willing to forget about that b/c of an upcoming election. I am not afraid of someone making a false allegation about me. I am very afraid of the authorities who would hide evidence of my innocence, lie to a judge, and abuse the media to smear my reputation for political favor.

Sure, charge those women with whatever petty BS lying to the police brings. But get Nifong and his thugs behind bars where they belong.:behindbar

 

[calus_3]

No no no, cal, please don't think so badly of me! I really, really feel for these boys, and think both of these women are pretty horrible.

My point was that I am not as worried about them being prosecuted - they both should be for making false statements, but what kind of misdemeanor crap is that? - but that they are not what really worries me.

Read your own post:



All this, and yet Nifong and the police still went forward. How many other women who do the same thing with an accused rapist much less "sexy" to the media machine than the Duke Lacrosse Team - for Heaven's Sake! - would have gotten past the front door! As soon as she was questioned hard by someone besides Nifong, she stopped throwing accusations around.

We are making the same point! These guys got dragged through all of this for who they are. But while you are saying it is her fault, that she saw money, I am saying it is the police and Nifong who scare me b/c they saw it as a chance to score political points.

People do sometimes make false accusations for whatever reason. We pay taxes and elect officials not to find people guilty, but to find truth justice. Nifong and LE in this dept were willing to forget about that b/c of an upcoming election. I am not afraid of someone making a false allegation about me. I am very afraid of the authorities who would hide evidence of my innocence, lie to a judge, and abuse the media to smear my reputation for political favor.

Sure, charge those women with whatever petty BS lying to the police brings. But get Nifong and his thugs behind bars where they belong.:behindbar

Okay, now I see.

I want the entire gammet of people prosecuted. Nifrog for virtually everything he did from his pre-election pressers where he declared them guilty to withholding DNA evidence that clearly exonerated the defendants to refusing to meet with defense attorneys to hear alibi information, and so on. But in my mind equally guilty are the women who have repeatedly lied about this entire case. As far as I am concerned, the guilt of nifrog and the are equally and separately responsible for what happened here.

However, I sense that some here still consider this woman to be some sort of a victim and that is as far from the truth as Mars is from Venus.

There is no justification for raping a woman nor any justification for claiming someone raped you because you are mad at them for some reason or because they wronged you in some other way (called names, refused to pay, etc.).

Lastly, I understand what you are saying about nifrog being the gatekeeper to preventing unwarranted prosecution. No doubt. However, some things are so egregious in their nature that once you are accused of it, someone will believe it. Even if this came out and said "ah hell, I made it all up" there would be many people out there that would believe it going forward. You think that any dad is going to be happy seeing one of these boys drive up to pick up their daughter? You think that anyone outside of the Duke supporters will be happy to see one of these kids walk through their door for a job interview?

There are apparently some that think these boys got what they had coming because they were jocks, arrogant, felt they are above the law, etc. Sorry, but that is a shallow argument. I doubt I would probably like any of these guys if I knew them personally, that doesn't give me the right to be happy to see their name dragged through the mud with a patently false charge.

Cal

Cal

 

[Paladin]

Geez Calus, tell us how you really feel.

You must really like the words "" and "."

 

[angelmom]

Actually, Cal, I think we are closer to the same page than you would think. The only twinge of feeling I have for these girls is that I think they had Scott Peterson-itis. I think they thought they'd tell this story and the boys' families and Duke would pay them to go away. But then Nifong jumped in and all of the sudden people started paying attention and scrutinizing the story. Suddenly people are using words like "" and "" and slipping hints about their identities into the press.

If LE had done their jobs this would have gone nowhere. The boys' reps would not have been ruined, the press wouldn't have heard about it, no girl's father would be looking down his nose at them. I mean, how many rape cases do you hear about in your town? In another town? I've read the AJC cover to cover this morning and can't find a single one. Does that mean there weren't any? Does that mean there wasn't a single accusation? I doubt it. I think it means none of them involved people who sell papers.

I'm just glad that Nifong has been exposed. I hope that the police who were involved are punished appropriately as well.

 

[calus_3]

Geez Calus, tell us how you really feel.

You must really like the words "" and "."

Not really, they are degrading and inflammatory.

But in this case, they fit really REALLY well.

Cal

 

[Nova]

Oh, please, Cal, don't "downgrade" your opinion of me. How ever will I bear it?

No one here has said the men "deserve" whatever they get. Everyone agrees the charges should have been dropped long ago.

No one here has said the accuser is the "victim" in this case. Everyone agrees false accusations of rape are wrong.

What I said was that when you go to prosecute the accuser, the burden of proof changes and different questions arise. I realize you accept as fact everything said by everyone EXCEPT the women involved. But I'd have to see the results from a serious investigation of that night before I'd agree to add more charges in a case where there have already been too many.

 

[calus_3]

Oh, please, Cal, don't "downgrade" your opinion of me. How ever will I bear it?

No one here has said the men "deserve" whatever they get. Everyone agrees the charges should have been dropped long ago.

No one here has said the accuser is the "victim" in this case. Everyone agrees false accusations of rape are wrong.

What I said was that when you go to prosecute the accuser, the burden of proof changes and different questions arise. I realize you accept as fact everything said by everyone EXCEPT the women involved. But I'd have to see the results from a serious investigation of that night before I'd agree to add more charges in a case where there have already been too many.

Sorry, downgraded!!!!!!

Nah, I was at first one of the 'hang em high' crowd. As time went along, and the OBVIOUS holes in this woman's story showed up, I switched to hang her high. I actually believed her at first.

Any woman that cries rape falsely should face the same sentence that the supposed rapist would have if convicted. If the false rape allegation had stuck and these boys were convicted, do you think that would have set the record straight or enjoyed her gimmies from the race warlords?

Cal

 

[Dark Knight]

ABC Radio News is reporting that, according to their sources, all charges will be dropped as soon as today.

Here is a link:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=3028515

 

[OMama]

Wonderful ! About time !

 

[evelyn24]

woo hoo!

Lets hope so, it's about time!

 

[ljwf22]

Good Morning America said the same, only it probably wouldn't be announced until tomorrow. The families of the accused are in Durham, however.

 

[calus_3]

Yeeehaw, let the lawsuits fly.....

Duke will get one...
Nifrog will get a giant one...
Skanky will end up a downtrodden , so status quo....

Life's good today for these kids.

Cal

 

[kgeaux]

Yeeehaw, let the lawsuits fly.....

Duke will get one...
Nifrog will get a giant one...
Skanky will end up a downtrodden , so status quo....

Life's good today for these kids.

Cal

I agree with you all around....not sure if Nifong can be sued, but surely he can be prosecuted for wrongful prosecution! I really want to see Nifong and the two "victim/accusers" arrested and made to pay for what they've done to these guys......they ought to serve some jail time PLUS Nifong should never be allowed to work in any sort of legal capacity for any city or state ever again. He has proven he will put his own short term desires (winning the black vote to win an election) above the rights of the citizens he served.

 

[angelmom]

And the more we talk about it, the bigger the story goes, the more these boys will have a chance to get their reputations back and the better chance there is of Nifong being prosecuted, disbarred, and publicly humiliated.

BUMP!!!!

 

[nanandjim]

ABC Radio News is reporting that, according to their sources, all charges will be dropped as soon as today.

Surprise...surprise...

I hope that Nifong and the accuser are prosecuted. I hope that a civil suit can be brought against Nifong holding his liable for paying for the boys' attorney as well as other personal damages.

Didn't Duke suspend two of the boys? If so, they need to be prosecuted as well.

ETA: I'm interested to see if Jesse Jackson will issue an apology to the young men. He sure was quick to come to the aid of the accuser, even paying for her college tuition. If he's not too busy lambasting Imus, perhaps, he can jump on a plane to North Carolina and hold a press conference. I'll hold my breath...

 

[calus_3]

Surprise...surprise...

I hope that Nifong and the accuser are prosecuted. I hope that a civil suit can be brought against Nifong holding his liable for paying for the boys' attorney as well as other personal damages.

Didn't Duke suspend two of the boys? If so, they need to be prosecuted as well.

ETA: I'm interested to see if Jesse Jackson will issue an apology to the young men. He sure was quick to come to the aid of the accuser, even paying for her college tuition. If he's not too busy lambasting Imus, perhaps, he can jump on a plane to North Carolina and hold a press conference. I'll hold my breath...

If I were one of these boys, when I hold my press conference, I would publically call out Jessee Jackson. I would find Jessee's quotes that declared me guilty and I would tell the media that I demand a meeting with Jessee Jackson to accept his apology. Then I would wait. But that's me and I am a vendictive, spitful .

Cal

 

[drew]

I want to see CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, MSNBC, and so on calling out to Jesse Jackson. They all gave him airtime the first time around. Give him airtime to issue his apology. MAKE him give an apology.
If I were the 2 boys who were suspended from Duke, I'd give them this ulitmatium, paid tuition at the university of my choice and then go ahead and sue them anyway.