NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #12

[cluciano63]

Hi all, I've been "lurking" for awhile trying to catch up and finding that most of my "wonderings" have already been wondered and replied to by others. Thank you all for all the good information and I have to say that I am awed to see so many intelligent and caring people gathered here.
I have a question that maybe is silly or has already been answered but I am hoping someone will be kind enough to clear this up for me: Here goes- If Zahra's leg was not being well tended to at the amputation site...or her prostheses was rubbing...and there was some necrosis, could that necrotic tissue cause a cadaver dog to "hit" on a spot where her leg had rested?
Thanks for your patience with this "newbie".

That is a good question...if there was dead tissue on her leg, perhaps. Someone explained the other day that cadaver dogs are trained very specifically to only hit on scent of "death"- and nothing else.

 

[panthera]

Wow, that report made my hair stand on end. Numerous neighbors are saying the same thing.

Why would her parents go back there weeks after they moved out? In the dark no less. Then people smelled the worst odor ever right after? They never smelled anything like it? I would say a good portion of people go through life not knowing what a corpse smells like. So that would be very memorable when they do. I believe these people.

I hope LE digs into this. This right here is really important. I have faith that they will do so though. LE in my opinion has done an excellent job trying to find this girl. They have left no stone unturned and my hearts go out to them.

I have no reason to believe that more than one person at the mobile home park would lie about something like that either. Seeing both parents there and no sign of Zahra, along with the horrible odor that followed is very troubling. MOO

 

[sweetmop]

Hi all, I've been "lurking" for awhile trying to catch up and finding that most of my "wonderings" have already been wondered and replied to by others. Thank you all for all the good information and I have to say that I am awed to see so many intelligent and caring people gathered here.
I have a question that maybe is silly or has already been answered but I am hoping someone will be kind enough to clear this up for me: Here goes- If Zahra's leg was not being well tended to at the amputation site...or her prostheses was rubbing...and there was some necrosis, could that necrotic tissue cause a cadaver dog to "hit" on a spot where her leg had rested?
Thanks for your patience with this "newbie".

Welcome, LostInTheMyst! That's a really good question, not silly at all. I believe a cadaver dog would hit on such an area. I just hope her leg was not in that kind of horrible shape. But with these 2, AB & EB, I wouldn't be surprised at anything, unfortunately!

 

[westsidefox64]

Ethan (as well as Shaniya) will always be with me. That little fragile baby boy, tortured, murdered and posthumously MUTILATED by those two disgusting, self-absorbed P'sOS...ugh, how can anyone ever comprehend it? Little Zahra has stirred those same feelings inside...WTH?? How can an adult hurt and/or kill a helpless child?:furious:

When I went to check on Ethans case had full intentions of checking on Shaniya too. After this thread and seeing what I did about that poor baby boy I decided my heart couldnt take a third today.

 

[panthera]

Hi all, I've been "lurking" for awhile trying to catch up and finding that most of my "wonderings" have already been wondered and replied to by others. Thank you all for all the good information and I have to say that I am awed to see so many intelligent and caring people gathered here.
I have a question that maybe is silly or has already been answered but I am hoping someone will be kind enough to clear this up for me: Here goes- If Zahra's leg was not being well tended to at the amputation site...or her prostheses was rubbing...and there was some necrosis, could that necrotic tissue cause a cadaver dog to "hit" on a spot where her leg had rested?
Thanks for your patience with this "newbie".

Hi and welcome! It is my understanding that cadaver dogs are trained specifically to hit on the remains of those already deceased. Dead skin cells from rubbing against the prosthesis wouldn't be included, imo. I don't believe that wherever Zahra was disposed of that her prosthesis is with her and would've been disposed of separately.......perhaps in pieces or as garbage. You do have a good point regarding the amputation site not being well tended to and that leads me to wonder if she could've developed an infection which got into her blood stream. MOO

 

[nobodyspecial]

That is a good question...if there was dead tissue on her leg, perhaps. Someone explained the other day that cadaver dogs are trained very specifically to only hit on scent of "death"- and nothing else.

WARNING! Graphic!

"Wet gangrene, in contrast to dry gangrene, usually begins with swelling and a very painful affected area that may be initially red and show signs of decay (sloughing tissue, pus, local oozing of fluid). Often the fluid and the affected area develop a very bad smell, due to the presence of such foul-smelling compounds as cadaverine and putrescine, which are produced as the infectious agent(s) destroy tissue. This dead and dying tissue develops a moist and black appearance. Additional symptoms that are often seen in patients with wet gangrene are fever and other signs of sepsis."

From here: http://www.yousaytoo.com/gangrene/372548


So yes, it would be possible it would seem.

 

[westsidefox64]

Hi all, I've been "lurking" for awhile trying to catch up and finding that most of my "wonderings" have already been wondered and replied to by others. Thank you all for all the good information and I have to say that I am awed to see so many intelligent and caring people gathered here.
I have a question that maybe is silly or has already been answered but I am hoping someone will be kind enough to clear this up for me: Here goes- If Zahra's leg was not being well tended to at the amputation site...or her prostheses was rubbing...and there was some necrosis, could that necrotic tissue cause a cadaver dog to "hit" on a spot where her leg had rested?
Thanks for your patience with this "newbie".

Great question I hadnt thought of that...I have this undying want/need in my heart for her to be alive and held somewhere. I just hope if she is AB knows where and is taking care of her since EB is incapable of it.

 

[TxLady2]

I just don't understand how these two..how shall I say this and be politically correct...well let us just say they aren't mental giants, IMO, can have done something to Zarha and leave basically NO clues for the LE to follow. That child did not simply disappear. I know the LE holds back a lot of information, but they haven't a clue to where Zarah is. I am sure they are doing every thing they can to find her, but really...jumping all over the place searching here and there and finding a whole lot of nothing. It's just mind boggling. She needs to be found and be back with the people who loved her, her family in Oz.
This is just MOO, of course.

Hi, bevichan. IMO, they DID leave clues. LE strongly believes she is dead, so they must have some strong clues to support that belief. LE is trying to follow the clues to find her, and those are not as clear. What the problem is, no one is talking and telling them where she is.
Not every case is quickly solved, as I'm sure you are aware. But LE seems to be doing a good job so far and I believe she will be found, sooner or later.
As for 'jumping all over the place'... not sure what you mean, but it seems they are trying to leave no stone unturned... even looking at the apt. where they lived a year ago. That seems pretty thorough to me!!

 

[nobodyspecial]

Hi and welcome! It is my understanding that cadaver dogs are trained specifically to hit on the remains of those already deceased. Dead skin cells from rubbing against the prosthesis wouldn't be included, imo. I don't believe that wherever Zahra was disposed of that her prosthesis is with her and would've been disposed of separately.......perhaps in pieces or as garbage. You do have a good point regarding the amputation site not being well tended to and that leads me to wonder if she could've developed an infection which got into her blood stream. MOO

bbm

That's something I've been wondering as well. If there was serious tissue death, as would happen with gangrene, that would most definitely get into the blood causing quickly fatal sepsis. Since this would all be the result of neglect, and failure to get her medical care it would get them into a lot of trouble if they outright owned up at the start. Perhaps they hoped her being hidden for a while would hide the evidence, and the ransom note was meant to back up the 'abduction' angle...

jmo...all that.

 

[Kat]

good morning everyone, I'm popping in for a few. I can't stay long. Can someone please give me a rough outline of what has happened today news wise?

What's this about a horrid smell? Do you think it could have been someone cooking meth? I've never smelled it but my Aunt said it is the most ungodly smell she's ever smelled when it was cooked in her neighborhood. TIA!

 

[darlin gal]

WARNING! Graphic!

"Wet gangrene, in contrast to dry gangrene, usually begins with swelling and a very painful affected area that may be initially red and show signs of decay (sloughing tissue, pus, local oozing of fluid). Often the fluid and the affected area develop a very bad smell, due to the presence of such foul-smelling compounds as cadaverine and putrescine, which are produced as the infectious agent(s) destroy tissue. This dead and dying tissue develops a moist and black appearance. Additional symptoms that are often seen in patients with wet gangrene are fever and other signs of sepsis."

From here: http://www.yousaytoo.com/gangrene/372548


So yes, it would be possible it would seem.

She was walking about smiling in the furniture store 2 weeks before she went missing. I doubt she was suffering from gangrene. JMO

 

[wfgodot]

good morning everyone, I'm popping in for a few. I can't stay long. Can someone please give me a rough outline of what has happened today news wise?

What's this about a horrid smell? Do you think it could have been someone cooking meth? I've never smelled it but my Aunt said it is the most ungodly smell she's ever smelled when it was cooked in her neighborhood. TIA!

Police confirmed via a news release that they believe the salespersons's account of having seen Zahra in the furniture store two weeks ago is a credible sighting.

 

[nobodyspecial]

One more article, then I swear I have to leave for a while....


http://www.mdguidelines.com/gangrene

"In the surgical setting, intestinal surgery, especially resection of the bowel and biliary tract, is the most common cause of gas gangrene. Less frequently, gas gangrene is associated with vascular insufficiency in the lower extremities. Sometimes gas gangrene occurs as a complication of burns or amputation and can also occur spontaneously in association with an underlying cancer condition. Other cases have infrequently occurred after injections or gynecological procedures. An estimated 50% of wet gangrene cases result from a severe traumatic injury and 40% occur following surgery (Wright)."

There's a lot more in that relatively short article that's of interest, but the bit about the underlying cancer condition stands out.

If her continued remission was not confirmed it's possible the osteo could have returned to the origin...meaning the stump could have had a recurrence. (a friend's son is having his remaining stump amputated monday because his osteo spread to his femur and pelvis after an amputation of the lower leg 2 years ago.)

That compounded with poorly fitting prosthesis, it's quite possible there could be a medical disaster in there somewhere.

 

[darlin gal]

good morning everyone, I'm popping in for a few. I can't stay long. Can someone please give me a rough outline of what has happened today news wise?

What's this about a horrid smell? Do you think it could have been someone cooking meth? I've never smelled it but my Aunt said it is the most ungodly smell she's ever smelled when it was cooked in her neighborhood. TIA!

Video on the right. Neighbors from trailer park said they saw the parents come back after dark about 3 weeks ago.

http://www.wbtv.com/global/category.asp?c=197806


Witness said it was in the night, and they saw Adam and Elisa, not Zahra. One mentioned a terrible odor back then as well. "I never smelled anything like it."


This would be around the same time period as Sept. 25th date the witnesses spotted Zahra @ the furniture store.

 

[belimom]

Hi, bevichan. IMO, they DID leave clues. LE strongly believes she is dead, so they must have some strong clues to support that belief. LE is trying to follow the clues to find her, and those are not as clear. What the problem is, no one is talking and telling them where she is.
Not every case is quickly solved, as I'm sure you are aware. But LE seems to be doing a good job so far and I believe she will be found, sooner or later.
As for 'jumping all over the place'... not sure what you mean, but it seems they are trying to leave no stone unturned... even looking at the apt. where they lived a year ago. That seems pretty thorough to me!!

(BBM)

My mind keeps going back to the glove the neighbor found with red "goo" in it that smelled bad. I don't think it was just blood... There must've been something else in there (unless they have other evidence that we haven't heard of - it's awfully early to declare a missing child 'dead').

 

[nobodyspecial]

She was walking about smiling in the furniture store 2 weeks before she went missing. I doubt she was suffering from gangrene. JMO

One of the two links I just put up says something about the speed it progresses...I'll go back and look when I get home, but hubby is begging me to walk away and go shopping with him. *sigh* Stupid RL stuff....

 

[panthera]

bbm

That's something I've been wondering as well. If there was serious tissue death, as would happen with gangrene, that would most definitely get into the blood causing quickly fatal sepsis. Since this would all be the result of neglect, and failure to get her medical care it would get them into a lot of trouble if they outright owned up at the start. Perhaps they hoped her being hidden for a while would hide the evidence, and the ransom note was meant to back up the 'abduction' angle...

jmo...all that.

And didn't AB say she had been sick with the flu that week (before she went missing)? The reports of EB making her walk long distances with the prosthesis, which most likely needed refitting and/or replacing, in addition to the likelihood of the amputation site not being properly taken care of really does make me wonder.....:waitasec: MOO

 

[westsidefox64]

bbm

That's something I've been wondering as well. If there was serious tissue death, as would happen with gangrene, that would most definitely get into the blood causing quickly fatal sepsis. Since this would all be the result of neglect, and failure to get her medical care it would get them into a lot of trouble if they outright owned up at the start. Perhaps they hoped her being hidden for a while would hide the evidence, and the ransom note was meant to back up the 'abduction' angle...

jmo...all that.

JMO I think EB likes attention too much for that. I can see her excessivly taking her for medical care to get the" poor mom "attention. That and access to pain pills for Zahra that she herself could take or sell for money to fortify her drug of choice. I would be really suprised to find Zahra wasnt getting a disability check every month, unless they couldnt get one with her being from Aussie. Then I could see her feeling she wasnt getting compensation for her so why not just get rid of her????

 

[panthera]

She was walking about smiling in the furniture store 2 weeks before she went missing. I doubt she was suffering from gangrene. JMO

It wouldn't take too long to be fatal for someone who has already had the amputation due to cancer. MOO

 

[TxLady2]

There could be a hundred different things that point to her being dead and they are just not making it public. We don't know what they know. They declared it a homicide several days ago, but they did not reveal why they classified it as such. Must be something to it.... LE doesn't usually take these things too lightly.