NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #18

[Mrs G Norris]

Long post alert (maybe it will help you get sleepy!):

Here's something that bugs me about the whole ransom note/discovering Zahra missing thing. If both EB and AB were in on it and wanted her to be discovered missing when authorities came for the fire and the ransom note was found, why wouldn't they have colluded about that and been prepared? Why didn't one of them say, "OMG, our daughter!" and make a beeline to check on her, then come out screaming that she was gone?

That seems like a fairly simple and reasonable (in a criminal way) means of having her discovered missing while authorities are on scene. The whole waiting several hours to report it thing is just so incredibly dumb, even for super dumb criminals.

It makes absolutely no sense. One or both go to all this trouble with the setup -- the fire, the ransom note -- but they can't somehow work into the conversation that they have a daughter sleeping in the house? Can't feign concern for a second to have an excuse to find her missing?

I can't quite put my finger on it, but there is something within that scenario that we are missing. Sometimes I wonder if maybe EB didn't want to be the one to say check on Zahra for fear that she might be scrutinized if she were the one to suggest it or to find her missing. And then either AB was just his apparently oblivious usual self (if not in on it) or was too chicken to start the ball rolling (if he was in on it).

Something is just so wrong about that whole scenario...and not just that they were too stupid to at least appear to be concerned about her safety. One or both knew she was gone, so one or both should have somehow alerted authorities, and it would have been SO easy to do. Was it simply a loss of courage to follow through? Did they chicken out and have to concoct another story afterward?

I can't seem to think of an explanation that makes any sense. I believe their failure to alert to her disappearance at that time is a major big deal in the overall picture. What am I missing? What reasons would one or both of them have for not allowing (or maybe even not wanting) the discovery to happen while police were on scene?

Great. I've just hopped back up on the fence regarding AB......it's possible that EB 'did what she did' during the day and that night he only looked in her room and saw a pile of pillows on the bed (or similar) and thought it was Zahra. Then EB lit the fire at 5am, put the ransom note on the car etc and alerted the police hoping someone AB or LE would discover Zahra missing. When this didn't work and AB blundered along into the next day she pulled off the little act of 'discovering' Zahra missing so that he would make the 911 call.

Doesn't explain his mixed stories (ie was he out and came home and EB came out hysterical about a missing Zahra, or was he asleep?) but it's a possible scenario. I am prepared to keep an open mind about AB, but that doesn't get him off the hook regarding ongoing abuse of Zahra, which he must have known about.

Not sure.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

They saw the guy at the doughnut shop and thought he might have seen them light the fire?

....and had to abandon plan A? Also possible....Hinky 911 on him too....Damn, all this fence hopping is doing my back in.

 

[Curious Me]

Long post alert (maybe it will help you get sleepy!):

Here's something that bugs me about the whole ransom note/discovering Zahra missing thing. If both EB and AB were in on it and wanted her to be discovered missing when authorities came for the fire and the ransom note was found, why wouldn't they have colluded about that and been prepared? Why didn't one of them say, "OMG, our daughter!" and make a beeline to check on her, then come out screaming that she was gone?

That seems like a fairly simple and reasonable (in a criminal way) means of having her discovered missing while authorities are on scene. The whole waiting several hours to report it thing is just so incredibly dumb, even for super dumb criminals.

It makes absolutely no sense. One or both go to all this trouble with the setup -- the fire, the ransom note -- but they can't somehow work into the conversation that they have a daughter sleeping in the house? Can't feign concern for a second to have an excuse to find her missing?

I can't quite put my finger on it, but there is something within that scenario that we are missing. Sometimes I wonder if maybe EB didn't want to be the one to say check on Zahra for fear that she might be scrutinized if she were the one to suggest it or to find her missing. And then either AB was just his apparently oblivious usual self (if not in on it) or was too chicken to start the ball rolling (if he was in on it).

Something is just so wrong about that whole scenario...and not just that they were too stupid to at least appear to be concerned about her safety. One or both knew she was gone, so one or both should have somehow alerted authorities, and it would have been SO easy to do. Was it simply a loss of courage to follow through? Did they chicken out and have to concoct another story afterward?

I can't seem to think of an explanation that makes any sense. I believe their failure to alert to her disappearance at that time is a major big deal in the overall picture. What am I missing? What reasons would one or both of them have for not allowing (or maybe even not wanting) the discovery to happen while police were on scene?

Your post really gets to what's been bugging me, too. Things came about so uncoordinated as a plan of two people. I'm still wondering why they bothered to report Zahra missing at all, and at that particular time when they hadn't worked out a logical plan.

Was only one of them involved, or one of them that wanted to report it more than the other?

I can see where EB started the fire and was much more aggressive in wanting this reported for some reason. AB was either not involved, or unaware yet that EB had done something, or he was very involved and aware but EB had jumped the gun when she wrote the ransom note, etc.,

Just wanted to say, I think you're on the right track in your questioning the events.

 

[cleo612]

I do want to add a couple more thoughts to my earlier posts.

I think that with Adam working extra long hours (it has been stated that he went to work early in the morning and didn't come home till quite late at night), it is very possible that EB was, indeed, keeping Zahra locked in her room during the days, or at the least, not permitting this vibrant child to venture outdoors. This would/could explain the fact that none of the neighbors had ever seen Zahra.

I think that Adam was likely quite oblivious to a lot of things that were going on in that household. I have a feeling he probably came from a traditionally old-fashioned background wherein women take care of the home and the children, and the men go out and are the breadwinners for the family.

I think that he probably/possibly was raised in a home where the women handled all childcare matters, including doling out punishments. Maybe EB's punishment/abuse of Zahra was not "over the top" in Adam's presence, and that the really bad abuse only occurred when he was at work.

I think that EB had Zahra so frightened that if Adam ever questioned Zahra as to any bruises or black eyes, that she had been instructed by EB to give some BS story as to what had happened. It wouldn't be the first time a scared little child had lied about the truth behind their injuries, out of sheer fear as to what might happen to them if the truth came out.

That is where my thinking is, and has been since this whole thing started. I have an open mind, though, and if I see evidence that Adam definitively WAS involved in causing little Zahra's demise, I will be the first in line to light the fire under him to cook his goose, just as I believe EB's goose has been cooked.

(I never dreamed when I opened this thread last Saturday night, that we would still be sitting here sifting through such a tragic and sad mess after all this time. I was sure when the Amber Alert crossed my screen and I came on here to post about it, that we would soon learn that little Zahra had spent the night at a friend's house without permission, or some such. I am literally sick to my stomach to think of all that Zahra endured in her short life, and with such grace and dignity, and such a bright positive attitude. To think that she suffered for even a moment at the hands of a person who should have been loving her and doting on her, simply disgusts me.)

 

[Sherbie]

I agree, Mrs. G. There is no way he couldn't have known about the abuse. Even if he never witnessed it (thought it's been claimed he did, and did nothing to stop it), I would think at least some of the many people who did see it would have told him about it. For whatever reason, he turned a blind eye to it, and that makes him just as guilty of the abuse as the one doling it out, IMO.

 

[Sherbie]

Your post really gets to what's been bugging me, too. Things came about so uncoordinated as a plan of two people. I'm still wondering why they bothered to report Zahra missing at all, and at that particular time when they hadn't worked out a logical plan.

Was only one of them involved, or one of them that wanted to report it more than the other?

I can see where EB started the fire and was much more aggressive in wanting this reported for some reason. AB was either not involved, or unaware yet that EB had done something, or he was very involved and aware but EB had jumped the gun when she wrote the ransom note, etc.,

Just wanted to say, I think you're on the right track in your questioning the events.

Thank you, Curious. I hope LE gets to the bottom of it all soon. I have a feeling it's a very, very tangled web they have to unravel.

 

[madelyn]

Have never posted here before. Lurker for looong time. More detailed, better authenticated news re this case here than anywhere else inclucing major media outlets. Poster Agatha amazes me, as do many others of you all. That said, it's truly sickening that such evil exists to do whatever was done to beautiful little Zahra. That child deserved a wonderful life.
I have 3 thoughts about how this played out:

One, someone struck her "too hard" thus killing her, then concocted a drug-brained plan to cover it up. Her body is buried deep, deep, deep in the woods. They left hearing aids at home, dumped the leg in trash, so as to have no problem with LE metal detectors.

Two, (God help us) Zahra was sold, traded, or "given" to someone whose evil quotient approximates EB's. For what? Money? Drugs? To settle a drug debt? Sold to some child predator EB met online, who lives overseas? Who knows? Since it appears EB was ready to take off anyway, apparently has no soul or scruples, had access to a child, why not make a fast buck before bolting?
Three: Zahra died of something other than direct physical abuse. Something akin to "natural" causes, but not so natural. Perhaps medical neglect that prompted heart or other major organ failure. Subsequently, well... morons make moronic plans. These folks aren't "genius-psychopaths." From what we've seen, they are both pretty thick-headed, likely substance abusers, creepy way into virtual world stuff, selfishness incarnate. The fire, 911 call, note, etc., were all part of their room-temp IQ plan to throw off the cops after disposing of Zahra's body (see "One," above).

Again tonight, I'll be praying extra for Zahra, the LE teams who are looking for her, and all children currently in harm's way. Good night WS folks. I've truly come to admire your intelligence and perseverance in the face of modern cultural evil. You're fighting the good fight. I hope my first post wasn't too long , too depressing, or too off the mark.

 

[kalekona]

Great. I've just hopped back up on the fence regarding AB......it's possible that EB 'did what she did' during the day and that night he only looked in her room and saw a pile of pillows on the bed (or similar) and thought it was Zahra. Then EB lit the fire at 5am, put the ransom note on the car etc and alerted the police hoping someone AB or LE would discover Zahra missing. When this didn't work and AB blundered along into the next day she pulled off the little act of 'discovering' Zahra missing so that he would make the 911 call.

Doesn't explain his mixed stories (ie was he out and came home and EB came out hysterical about a missing Zahra, or was he asleep?) but it's a possible scenario. I am prepared to keep an open mind about AB, but that doesn't get him off the hook regarding ongoing abuse of Zahra, which he must have known about.

Not sure.

I have to lean a bit toward the innocent side of that fence just a bit- There are explanations as to why AB didn't stop the abuse- (because he didn't see it and Zahra never said anything)

I think the man got hooked up with this crazy woman and was at a loss how to get himself and his daughter out of the snake pit.

I believe it is more than possible that his changing stories are because he wasn't there and when he was he was to high to remember.

As to the 911 call- perhaps there was no urgency to his call because he suspected from the beginner that EB knew where his daughter was.

AB will forever live with what he got them into, and what he couldn't get them out of.

As for the mattress- if it is a mattress they are looking for in the landfill and they would have to think Zahra never slept on the one they removed from the house- so why tell reporters it is for the scent dogs?

this case is simply FUBAR- beyond belief.

 

[rbrnmw2]

I think that EB's abuse escalated for some reason either right before or right after that phone call on Friday, October 8th, to BS asking that the communicating threats charges be dropped. I feel that she likely became incensed that BS refused to comply with her request and that she took her anger out on little Zahra.

It is possible that EB was already considering leaving Adam and Zahra. She had, after all, just received monies that week from the gentleman in England. I think she was tired of her "new" husband and with another man sending her money from a land far away, she probably was fantasizing about a new life with said foreign gentleman.

I think that she knew her time was running out as to being able to get out of the country with all of the charges that were building up against her for writing so many bad checks and not living a life within the confines of the law.

I am not even sure that Adam knew about the bad checks that had been written on their account. In most states, and I believe it is so here in NC, any and all parties to a bank account are responsible for ensuring that there are sufficient funds to cover any outstanding checks.

Even if it was EB writing the checks without Adam's knowledge, he was still liable for them. Most states will charge all parties associated with the account if a check is returned for insufficient funds, and I think that is exactly what happened in this case. I have not compared Adam's bad check charges with EB's, but I would almost bet a donut that they are identical.

Although I am officially still very slightly on the fence as to Adam's involvement, I tend to believe he had nothing to do with Zahra's demise (other than the rumored sitting back and watching as EB punished her).

That being said, I think that EB got cold feet during the fire incident and didn't want to be the one to point out that there was supposed to be a sleeping child in the house. I don't think she wanted to draw that much attention to herself. I fully believe that EB is responsible for Zahra's demise, and for having removed her from the home. I have already stated in an earlier post that I believe she is also the one who set the fire and raised the alarm for said arson.

After Adam had gone back to work that Saturday morning, and then returned home, she realized that she had to do SOMEthing to raise the alert that Zahra was not in the house, because Adam was sure to be interested in seeing his daughter. It was, after all, 2pm on a nice Saturday afternoon, and he was presumably home for the weekend. He would have expected to see Zahra at some point that afternoon.

I think that Adam made some very poor judgment calls about EB during his online courtship of her, and came to a rude awakening after moving back here to the States.

After having left his homeland on bad terms with his family, he would have lost face to admit that he made a mistake and that he wanted to go back home. This would have been a hard pill for a man's man to swallow. Unfortunately, I think that in his inaction to remove both he and Zahra from the life he so poorly chose, he inadvertently put Zahra in harm's way, and it has had tragic consequences.

I think that EB's goose is cooked. Stick a fork in her - she's done.

I do think she had him all twisted in his thinking, He appears to be a little slow. Also with all the lies she told it is hard to tell what she told him as far as the bad checks go. Maybe she cashed all his paychecks for him and used the money for things he didn't know about. He may have thought based on how much he was paid that the money was actually in the account. When the notices from the bank or the store came she would get rid of them before he saw them. I had a cousin who was married to someone like that he was pulled over for a turn signal and was arrested on the spot for bad checks. He had written them but his paycheck was never deposited.

 

[Sherbie]

Cleo, again....spot on. I think you have it nailed down very well. Thank you!

Once it was announced that EB had admitted writing the note, I thought this thing would immediately unravel and be solved. I also think there's a lot more to this that we've not been made aware of, specifically what was turned up with the sealed search warrants. I'd love to get a gander at those!

 

[Sherbie]

Madelyn, so glad you decided to de-lurk and join us! Excellent post. Don't be shy...keep it coming! :hug:

:Welcome-12-june:​

 

[agathawannabe]

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000036481999#!/profile.php?id=100000036481999&v=wall

On facebook

6 hours ago
AY posts video of bond hearing, notes EB looks evil and emotionless

5 hours ago
Bio daughter BS responds it's because SHE's GUILTY

 

[Curious Me]

:Welcome-12-june: Madelyn. You got your voice.

 

[rbrnmw2]

I agree, Mrs. G. There is no way he couldn't have known about the abuse. Even if he never witnessed it (thought it's been claimed he did, and did nothing to stop it), I would think at least some of the many people who did see it would have told him about it. For whatever reason, he turned a blind eye to it, and that makes him just as guilty of the abuse as the one doling it out, IMO.

Not if she manipulated the situation enough maybe she would do things to make sure they were never alone long enough to tell him anything

 

[Sherbie]

I have to lean a bit toward the innocent side of that fence just a bit- There are explanations as to why AB didn't stop the abuse- (because he didn't see it and Zahra never said anything)

I think the man got hooked up with this crazy woman and was at a loss how to get himself and his daughter out of the snake pit.

I believe it is more than possible that his changing stories are because he wasn't there and when he was he was to high to remember.

As to the 911 call- perhaps there was no urgency to his call because he suspected from the beginner that EB knew where his daughter was.

AB will forever live with what he got them into, and what he couldn't get them out of.

As for the mattress- if it is a mattress they are looking for in the landfill and they would have to think Zahra never slept on the one they removed from the house- so why tell reporters it is for the scent dogs?

this case is simply FUBAR- beyond belief.

BBM. That is something I have been considering, too, kale. Maybe he thought his crazy wife had taken Zahra to a friend or family member just to cause a big to-do (she obviously thrives on drama and he had to know she was a habitual liar). I think if he didn't know, he had to at least suspect that his wife was responsible for the ransom note/fire, too. Drama, drama, drama.

Of course, he may well be in on the whole thing. There are some inconsistencies and some of his actions (or inaction) tend to go toward having some knowledge. I am trying to keep an open mind where's he concerned until we learn more. He doesn't make it easy sometimes to do that!

 

[darnudes]

DB, Adam's brother has just started posting on FB.

Very top of the page.

He wants people to turn their anger and hostility into a positive and go to a children's hospital and spend time with sick kids as that's what Zahra would have wanted. Zahras compassion and love for others was one thing more beautiful than her smile.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Love-4-Zahra-Clare-Baker/124056834314060

 

[cleo612]

Cleo, again....spot on. I think you have it nailed down very well. Thank you!

Once it was announced that EB had admitted writing the note, I thought this thing would immediately unravel and be solved. I also think there's a lot more to this that we've not been made aware of, specifically what was turned up with the sealed search warrants. I'd love to get a gander at those!

I agree, Sherbie, I think that there is a lot more than we know. I also would love to see the search warrants, the investigative reports, video of the jailhouse visits between EB and Adam and the others who went to see her. I would love to know precisely what it is that they are searching for at the landfill, and what led them there.

I want NC to sign into law, first thing tomorrow morning, a Sunshine Law such as they have in Florida, and I want it to be retroactive to October 9, 2010! These little bits and pieces of information only fuel the speculation and rumors.

I want the cold, hard facts, please!

I hope that we get more information in the morning, but mostly, I hope that precious little Zahra is found tomorrow. She deserves that - to be laid to rest with dignity. I would love to think that she is still alive, but I think that bell has tolled. How I would love to spend 5 minutes alone with EB. :furious:

I am finally going to bed. My little granddaughter is spending the night with me and has a bad head cold, so we have been up and down most of the night. This old Nana is tuckered out!

 

[Peliman]

It's late night right? I've not come to any solid conclusions yet except I do believe EB is one person responsible for Zahras disappearance.

<speculation here> I'm beginning to get the feeling and it won't surprise me if it turns out EB was an online Dom and AB was her submissive. This may have carried over into real life.

I'm not excusing AB, I haven't heard enough yet but I do believe he's guilty of negligence.

I'm thinking if he went against EB's wishes she would make him pay BIG time. <punished>

Remember this is late night speculation only.

 

[darnudes]

Welcome madelyn - not too long at all.

 

[Sherbie]

Not if she manipulated the situation enough maybe she would do things to make sure they were never alone long enough to tell him anything

Also, there's the very real possibility that they may have very much feared retribution from EB if they said anything to AB.