Found Deceased ND - Savanna Lafontaine-Greywind, 22, pregnant, Fargo, 19 Aug 2017 #2 *Arrests*

[cvaldez1975]

I doubt it. Once she is home as long as they give her the love and stability that she needs, she will be just fine.

This is my hopes. I believe RAD happens after prolonged neglect.


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[Oregonmama]

I feel for this guy, this is critical bonding time he's missing out on w the baby. I know it's procedure but it's wrong.


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The public does not know if the father and relatives have not seen the baby yet. They could have already had visits. This case is different from other cases that take kids away from neglectful and abusing parents where parents need to wait for a court hearing to find out how the reunification process will work and what services they need to get their children back. I am going to side with social services on this one because they did not step in initially, LE put the baby in protective custody which then notified social services. I use to work for social services a long time ago so I am familiar with procedures.

 

[cvaldez1975]

""Fetal abduction" cases

1974 in Philadelphia, Pa. Baby survived, mother died.

1987 in Albuquerque, N.M. Baby survived, mother died.

1995 in Addison, Ill. Baby survived, mother died.

1996 in Tuscaloosa, Ala. Baby survived, mother died.

1998 in Fresno, Calif. Both baby and mother died.

2000 in Ravenna, Ohio. Baby survived, mother died.

2003 in Okemah, Okla. Both baby and mother died.

2004 in Skidmore, Mo. Baby survived, mother died.

2006 in East St. Louis, Ill. Both baby and mother died.

2008 in Kennewick, Wash. Baby survived, mother died.

2008 in Wilkinsburg, Pa. Baby survived, mother died.

2009 in Worcester, Mass. Baby survived, mother died.

2009 in Washington, D.C. Both baby and mother survived.

2011 in Bowling Green, Ky. Baby survived, mother died.

2011 in Milwaukee, Wis. Both mother and baby died.

2011 in Oakdale, La. Both baby and mother died.

2015 in Longmont, Colo. Baby died, mother survived."

Fetal abduction' rare but possible in pregnant Fargo woman's disappearance
http://www.inforum.com/news/4318342...-possible-pregnant-fargo-womans-disappearance

I clearly remember the Fresno case in 98.

I don't recall which one else but after that one, maybe in Illinois, a woman was pregnant and the father was not with her, and his sister and her SO took the baby from her. They also killed her two children who was not offspring of the brother and left the brother's toddler child in the alt w a dead sibling and a dead mother. Her other child was found dead in an alley. Absolutely horrific.


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[gitana1]

The public does not know if the father and relatives have not seen the baby yet. They could have already had visits. This case is different from other cases that take kids away from neglectful and abusing parents where parents need to wait for a court hearing to find out how the reunification process will work and what services they need to get their children back. I am going to side with social services on this one because they did not step in initially, LE put the baby in protective custody which then notified social services. I use to work for social services a long time ago so I am familiar with procedures.

The father stated they had not been allowed to see the child. Not even a photo. Under the circumstances, I say F procedures. This is inhumane and bad for everyone.

 

[Oregonmama]

The father stated they had not been allowed to see the child. Not even a photo. Under the circumstances, I say F procedures. This is inhumane and bad for everyone.

Perhaps that is a LE decision. They know more than us. Safety comes first in regards to the baby's well being

 

[Leader6518]

Fargo Police and volunteer search parties investigate new leads in the search for Savanna Greywind

http://www.valleynewslive.com/conte...the-search-for-Savanna-Greywind-441830083.htm

'The tips lead searchers back to a more specific location within Buffalo State Park and a park in the Moorhead area. They also continued to focus on the leads they had in the Trollwood park area. Despite the leads and tips gathered, there are still no official signs of Savanna.'

Is there a difference between 'no signs of Savanna' and 'no official signs of Savanna'?

IMO when there is a missing person case there are always people who call in sightings of the missing person. They get checked out, but most of the time it is not the person. I think that may be the difference.

 

[SuperTmo]

Perhaps that is a LE decision. They know more than us. Safety comes first in regards to the baby's well being

I fully agree, and I'm surprised so many posters disagree. I think it may also have to do with the baby's parents not being married, so his paternity isn't assume and needs to be determined. They have probably determined by now with DNA from the mom's toothbrush that it is her baby. They probably did that first before taking Ash's DNA because he isn't the priority, no matter how we feel about it. Determining if it is Savanna's baby so they know if they are looking for one victim or two is the priority. Just because the kidnappers said it is doesn't make that a proven fact. These people are nuts; who knows what other unscrupulous activities they were involved in. Now they need to make sure he is the father. They can't just give custody of the baby to a person they aren't sure is the father. What if she got pregnant by someone else? Happens every day.

 

[Gardener1850]

I fully agree, and I'm surprised so many posters disagree. I think it may also have to do with the baby's parents not being married, so his paternity isn't assume and needs to be determined. They have probably determined by now with DNA from the mom's toothbrush that it is her baby. They probably did that first before taking Ash's DNA because he isn't the priority, no matter how we feel about it. Determining if it is Savanna's baby so they know if they are looking for one victim or two is the priority. Just because the kidnappers said it is doesn't make that a proven fact. These people are nuts; who knows what other unscrupulous activities they were involved in. Now they need to make sure he is the father. They can't just give custody of the baby to a person they aren't sure is the father. What if she got pregnant by someone else? Happens every day.

I don't see anyone arguing the father should get custody BEFORE tests are complete. I think most of us just don't see what harm there could be in showing him a picture of his baby or letting him hold the child for a few minutes in a supervised setting. He's not a suspect in Savanna's disappearance and everyone believes he is the father. Social Services could use their discretion to allow a visit in this case IMO.

 

[georgiajean]

https://www.facebook.com/fargopolicedepartment/posts/10155594365648334

We have received approximately 150 tips from the public since Friday when the tip line went active. Investigators have followed up on many and the remaining tips have been prioritized for follow up.

Hoping that there is a break in this case very soon.

 

[georgiajean]

The situation with the baby girl is so heart wrenching, and I think everyone would like to see her in the arms of her loving family. However, given the insanity of the two people who are charged with kidnapping, I am glad she is safe in the hospital. Until they know where the baby had been kept in the days before she was rescued, I will suspect someone else is involved.

Knowing many nurses, I can imagine that baby is being completely doted on and loved. Especially given the outpouring of support for this family. I was reading about attachment for premature babies who end up spending extended time in hospitals. Here's a good article: http://www.aboutkidshealth.ca/En/Re...reBabies/AtHome/Attachment/Pages/default.aspx Though this situation isn't the same (the baby is entirely dependent on non-relatives for care right now), this makes me hopeful that any disruption in her bonding with her family will be overcome quickly.

 

[meanmaryjean]

The situation with the baby girl is so heart wrenching, and I think everyone would like to see her in the arms of her loving family. However, given the insanity of the two people who are charged with kidnapping, I am glad she is safe in the hospital. Until they know where the baby had been kept in the days before she was rescued, I will suspect someone else is involved.

Knowing many nurses, I can imagine that baby is being completely doted on and loved. Especially given the outpouring of support for this family. I was reading about attachment for premature babies who end up spending extended time in hospitals. Here's a good article: http://www.aboutkidshealth.ca/En/Re...reBabies/AtHome/Attachment/Pages/default.aspx Though this situation isn't the same (the baby is entirely dependent on non-relatives for care right now), this makes me hopeful that any disruption in her bonding with her family will be overcome quickly.

The baby is a crime victim. From my background in Pediatric ICU- children who are crime victims are kept away from EVERYONE in protective custody until LE completes their investigation and can vet interested parties. It sounds cruel- but is THE safest option. Trust me- this little one has plenty of nurses giving her warmth, affection and attention.

 

[SuperTmo]

I don't see anyone arguing the father should get custody BEFORE tests are complete. I think most of us just don't see what harm there could be in showing him a picture of his baby or letting him hold the child for a few minutes in a supervised setting. He's not a suspect in Savanna's disappearance and everyone believes he is the father. Social Services could use their discretion to allow a visit in this case IMO.

But on the off chance that it isn't Savanna's baby or isn't his baby, imagine the criticism the police and CPS will receive if they let them hold and bond with the baby. Then we would hear about how heartless it was for them to get the family's hopes up and how cruel it was for them to make the family think it was their baby. Imagine if this is actually some baby that the kidnappers swapped drugs for and that Savanna's baby didn't survive. They could have said it was hers to avoid having two murder charges vs 1. Of course it's a stretch but this entire case is bizarre so I can't say it wouldn't happen... but LE and CPS would be crucified for letting the family think that was their baby.

Given that LE is being criticized as it is for not finding the baby sooner, for not locating Savanna yet, and for not swabbing the dad's cheek until Friday, I don't blame them for following every policy to a T. It isn't going to hurt the baby to be away from her family for a few more days.

 

[margarita25]

Sigh...it appears that everyone, family, LE, volunteers, is trying so hard. It is absolutely heartbreaking. For Savanna's family's sake most of all I hope she can be found, and this doesn't turn out to be one of the many (thousands?) of unresolved Missing Persons cases here...(How many people are currently listed as missing here right now on WS, I wonder...?).

I know nothing will ever "bring her back", assuming this is a recovery mission, but she needs to be brought home (obviously)...(I had to learn the value of such "closure" the hard way recently in regards to the personal loss of a deeeeply loved loved one and having to "bring them home" ...no condolences please so as to not derail Savanna's thread). Savanna needs to brought home, as do all victims here. (Obviously, just saying/venting...the thought of her lying out there somewhere, all cut up...discarded like a piece of trash ...she deserves Respect, Dignity, everything these monsters tried to take from her. Again, I wish this for all families that have to endure this...Jo Ann Lowitzer, Jessica Heeringa's family...the list is Infinite...

Re: the discussion about the baby and the father, I see both sides, and hope Daddy and baby will be united soon. I think they are doing what's best right now overall, moo.

 

[Eileen730]

The father stated they had not been allowed to see the child. Not even a photo. Under the circumstances, I say F procedures. This is inhumane and bad for everyone.

Maybe they need to be sure its his child before they let him see the baby.

 

[citigirl]

The ICWA specifically states that the tribe of the minor child's parents and their family have adoption rights. Turtle Mountain will not be in any way involved unless all members of spirit lake who are related wave their right to adoption. Assuming the child has enough blood quantum to be enrolled in the tribe on their own, this is even more true.

http://www.narf.org/nill/documents/icwa/faq/placement.html

As seen in the above link, the tribe has ultimate jurisdiction about the succession of custody, if the child is shown to be Savannas.

The father is not a member of the baby's extended family, which is what that law is talking about. The father is the father.

 

[JetsFan24]

Maybe they need to be sure its his child before they let him see the baby.

Exactly. The baby is unfortunately a part of an active police investigation.

 

[citigirl]

The father stated they had not been allowed to see the child. Not even a photo. Under the circumstances, I say F procedures. This is inhumane and bad for everyone.

I completely agree. Unless there is something we don't know.

 

[citigirl]

Sigh...it appears that everyone, family, LE, volunteers, is trying so hard. It is absolutely heartbreaking. For Savanna's family's sake most of all I hope she can be found, and this doesn't turn out to be one of the many (thousands?) of unresolved Missing Persons cases here...(How many people are currently listed as missing here right now on WS, I wonder...).

I know nothing will ever "bring her back", assuming this is a recovery mission, but she needs to be brought home (obviously)...I had to learn the value of such "closure" the hard way recently in regards to the personal loss of a deeeeply loved loved one and putting them to rest (no condolences please so as to not derail Savanna's thread). Savanna needs to brought home, as do all victims here. (Obviously, just saying/venting...the thought of her lying out there somewhere, all cut up...discarded like a piece of trash ...she deserves Respect, Dignity, everything these monsters tried to take from her.)

Re: the discussion about the baby and the father, I see both sides, and hope Daddy and baby will be united soon. I think they are doing what's best right now overall, moo.

Does anyone here know what is involved in identifying DNA? Why does it take a week?

 

[margarita25]

https://www.facebook.com/fargopolicedepartment/posts/10155594365648334



Hoping that there is a break in this case very soon.

Also,

Savanna Greywind Tipline Brings In 150 Tips
http://www.kvrr.com/2017/08/27/savanna-greywind-tipline-brings-150-tips/

"FARGO, ND — Investigators continue to work through the weekend following up on leads from the public and evidence gathered so far."

 

[Oregonmama]

Since we are outsiders to this case, there might be more going on than we know. I dislike taking sides but the baby is the main priority and I need to trust LE. Jmo, the investigation is far from over. LE does not just ppl in protective custody unless there is an ultimate need for it. They could have called social services to obtain emergency custody but they didn't. LE acted first.