NE NE - Chance Englebert, 25, Gering, 6 July 2019 (new father) #2

[Songbird1973]

Or could have the person fallen from much higher up?

Someone could fall off the top. Or be dumped off, I guess. The following are just facts, I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything...

The park, hiking trail, and entrance to the road is closed at sundown, so no one driving up there the night Chance went missing.

The lightning was likely gone by the time Chance could/would have walked there. He was last on camera a mile away at 10 pm.

If Chance walked into the park that night, (from the back side), and if for some reason he decided to go to the top of the bluffs, the chances of him locoating and making it up the hiking trail in the darkness, after a torrential rain, with no light (his phone stopped prior to 10pm) are slim. It's steep enough that marathon athletes use it to train on. (Like, it's really annoying when you're gasping with each little step, and this guy charges past you running full speed, and before you drag yourself much farther towards the top, he's been there and breezes past on the way down. Don't ask how I know. )

It appears the skeletal remains were found on the side of the extreme northern bluff, and l'm not sure area above it accessible by trail.

 

[Songbird1973]

Am I correct then, to say that Chance could have been taken to the spot where the unidentified body was found in a car?

The available pictures of the recovery scene do not show vehicles anywhere near the site, so probably not from below.

Its possible to drive to the top of the bluffs, but not the one above the remains. You can walk in that direction, but not sure if you could get exactly above the remains. And it not a sheer drop off, so I don't think a person/body would go very far down.

 

[Songbird1973]

Another map:

Red line: Road to top of bluffs.
Yellow line: Hiking trails to top.
Orange line: trail on top between overlooks.
Red pin: "Back gate" where law enforcement vehicles were seen parked.
Red X: General area of skeletal remains.

 

[Songbird1973]

Same photo, upside down.

Red line: Road to top of bluffs.
Yellow line: Hiking trails to top.
Red pin: "Back gate" where law enforcement vehicles were seen parked.
Red Xs: possible places where skeletal remains were.
Yellow highlighted line: Dry irrigation ditch. Likely along here where Photographer stated he took the photo of people with shovels "from the ditch road."

 

[Kittybunny]

Someone could fall off the top. Or be dumped off, I guess. The following are just facts, I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything...

The park, hiking trail, and entrance to the road is closed at sundown, so no one driving up there the night Chance went missing.

The lightning was likely gone by the time Chance could/would have walked there. He was last on camera a mile away at 10 pm.

If Chance walked into the park that night, (from the back side), and if for some reason he decided to go to the top of the bluffs, the chances of him locoating and making it up the hiking trail in the darkness, after a torrential rain, with no light (his phone stopped prior to 10pm) are slim. It's steep enough that marathon athletes use it to train on. (Like, it's really annoying when you're gasping with each little step, and this guy charges past you running full speed, and before you drag yourself much farther towards the top, he's been there and breezes past on the way down. Don't ask how I know. )

It appears the skeletal remains were found on the side of the extreme northern bluff, and l'm not sure area above it accessible by trail.

Based on your first-hand knowledge of the area, what do you think is the most likely scenario of how his body got there?

1. He walked there himself and succumbed to the elements.
2. He walked there, but to the area above, lost his way and fell to where his body was, with potential predation or water shifting his body to where it is.
3. He was killed there and left there.
4. He was killed elsewhere, and his body dumped there - either down there or from above - at a later time.
5. Other (I can’t think of any other scenarios right now besides alien abduction but please highlight any others!)

Thank you, really appreciate your local knowledge!

 

[Songbird1973]

I suppose they won't

I'm surprised there was no mention of clothing with the remains as that could provide an early preliminary identification if it might be him or not.
Yes, a country boy would know about high ground (away from flash floods) and low ground (away from greater lightening risks) but he sure seemed to be in a hot-headed mood that day and that can sometimes override logic.

That's probably not something that they'll release to the public at this point.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I suppose they won't

That's probably not something that they'll release to the public at this point.

Actually in one of the articles they did mention ítems of Chance’s were found at the site. Im at work or id dog for that link. I think it was from Cowboy News IIRC.

Amateur opinion and speculation only

 

[Songbird1973]

Based on your first-hand knowledge of the area, what do you think is the most likely scenario of how his body got there?

1. He walked there himself and succumbed to the elements.
2. He walked there, but to the area above, lost his way and fell to where his body was, with potential predation or water shifting his body to where it is.
3. He was killed there and left there.
4. He was killed elsewhere, and his body dumped there - either down there or from above - at a later time.
5. Other (I can’t think of any other scenarios right now besides alien abduction but please highlight any others!)

Thank you, really appreciate your local knowledge!

I wish I had a good answer. The Park was in line with his last known direction of travel. He wasn't thinking very clearly. He could have encountered some flash flooding and tried to get to higher ground. But what would have caused his death?

Foul play is a real possibility, but how did someone find him to harm him? His last location was pretty close to the edge of town so after a few more blocks, he would have vanished into the darkness. Had he turned north into Scottsbluff (the way to Torrington where he told his friend he was going) or turned back the way he had come, there was a much higher chance of running across a would be attacker, but he would have been seen on cameras also, and he wasn't. An encounter with a homeless person camped along the North Platte River, maybe? I really don't know what to think.

 

[Mazey11]

Based on your first-hand knowledge of the area, what do you think is the most likely scenario of how his body got there?

1. He walked there himself and succumbed to the elements.
2. He walked there, but to the area above, lost his way and fell to where his body was, with potential predation or water shifting his body to where it is.
3. He was killed there and left there.
4. He was killed elsewhere, and his body dumped there - either down there or from above - at a later time.
5. Other (I can’t think of any other scenarios right now besides alien abduction but please highlight any others!)

Thank you, really appreciate your local knowledge!

This wasn't addressed to me, but I spent some of every summer in the area when I was growing up and have been on the monument many times. My guess would be #2. He could have walked up the main trail and fallen off in the dark. Or he could have been trying to climb up from the bottom and then fallen - probably more likely. Predation and erosion could definitely disturb or cover any remains. As I recall, Scotts Bluff is a lot of sandstone, not really solid rock.

Just my opinion.

 

[Songbird1973]

Actually in one of the articles they did mention ítems of Chance’s were found at the site. Im at work or id dog for that link. I think it was from Cowboy News IIRC.

Amateur opinion and speculation only

You are correct. LE told Chance's family there were clues at the scene indicating it could be connected to Chance. (As cautious as LE has to be about identifying someone, it seems like they must have found some very specific items for them to have said that!) It was the family who chose to share it with the public.

"Englebert’s mother Dawn received a call Saturday morning from Brian Eads, lead investigator on the case for the Gering Police Department, saying that the body may to be tied to Englebert based on clues found at the scene."

Body Discovered In Nebraska May Be Missing Moorcroft Man Chance Englebert

A body found Saturday near rural Gering, Nebraska, may be that of Moorcroft man Chance Englebert, who has been missing for more than six years, say his…

cowboystatedaily.com

 

[Songbird1973]

This wasn't addressed to me, but I spent some of every summer in the area when I was growing up and have been on the monument many times. My guess would be #2. He could have walked up the main trail and fallen off in the dark. Or he could have been trying to climb up from the bottom and then fallen - probably more likely. Predation and erosion could definitely disturb or cover any remains. As I recall, Scotts Bluff is a lot of sandstone, not really solid rock.

Just my opinion.

Yes the Bluffs absolutely erode. The entire valley eroded away. Only areas like the bluffs, where there was a cap of rock, didn't erode. But the walls are just a crumbling mess.

 

[ClB007]

The remains found have enough evidence to show this is Chance so I will discuss this like they did find Chance Englebert. There is no reason for Chance to have walked this direction or ended up on the North side of the monument.
The North side is rugged terrain and a canal to cross if entering from a rd or path. It was storming heavily that night with high winds up to 65 miles per hr. Dark out of course. Chance had called for someone to meet him while he started to head toward Torrington but his ride could not come and Chance turned his phone off. It makes no sense at all he would end up at the base of this Monument on the North side which is less traveled and found deceased 6 years later. Many searches were conducted in this area also and nothing was found. Everything pretty much points to his remains were dumped there or put there to make it seem he had an accident there. Also possibly moved recently from another place. This is a place where the public goes and hikes, I've heard partying in this area so why did anyone dump him here, I would think to try and make it look like he jumped or fell off the top of this Monument by accident. The Police are not giving out any info and it will take a long time to investigate these skeletal remains for the cause of death. If he came off from the top his bones should show he fell from a high place. Thankful he has been found but really horrible we still have to speculate on why this young man lost his life.

 

[tarabull]

Human remains found in Nebraska could be missing man Chance Englebert

Detectives revealed that they investigated two major theories about Englebert’s disappearance

www.the-independent.com

 

[ClB007]

Human remains found in Nebraska could be missing man Chance Englebert

Detectives revealed that they investigated two major theories about Englebert’s disappearance

www.the-independent.com

More than a skull was found and they referred to what they found as a body. This is the only report I have read on this and the information given referring to a skull. Also the two theories mentioned could not be confirmed and are only theories. The sighting at BB's came from a clerk who thought this was Chance he waited on. There is no camera footage from this convenience store to prove this was Chance the clerk waited on. Also this clerk was very vague on this man that was seen in the back of the store supposedly talking to Chance. Don't even know if this was Chance in the convenience store, only a possibility. The two women theory was given out to the public to try and identify these two women in case they had seen anything relating to Chance.

 

[K9Enzo]

I'm still of the opinion this will not be a foul play case. That Chance walked off on foot, was also seen on outside video walking. If this is indeed Chance that has been recovered, he went to the recovery site on his own accord. Why? Who knows. IMO I do not think he intended to pass away but I'll call it death by misadventure right now. I don't think any outcome will steer Chance's family away from blaming B, the mother of his child. Chance's mom did not like her. I still go back to the episode of The Vanished podcast where B gave an interview to host Marissa, as well as Chance's mom and friend. If I only heard the series of events from Chance's mom I would think foul play. Luckily, I believe it was a well rounded interview with both sides presented. This was a young immature couple with a small child. Hurtful/disrespectful things were said and Chance walked off on foot agitated and passed away from an injury, or the elements/environment. IMO