Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #5

[missy1974]

I have lost a lot of faith in Zellner. I was a fan of hers because of Ryan Ferguson. But it seems to me she's gotten swept up in the media hype.

If she's so focused on saving the innocent then why did she abandon Charles Erickson after the Ferguson media attention died down.

Sad, but it's no accident that she showed up for this case as well. Representing Avery will get her a LOT of money completely unrelated to the legal aspects of the case.

What about Chuck, Zellner? I thought you only represented innocent people?

Did Zellner represent Charles Erickson?

Found an article from 2014 that reported this:

He is now being represented by Attorney Laura O'Sullivan, a professor at University of Missouri - Kansas City School of Law, and Senior Counsel with the Midwest Innocence Project

But I don't see that she was representing him and dropped him.

I know she represents SA right now, she doesn't represent Brendan. It seems somewhat similar, although I have never followed the Furguson/Erickson case. I would assume that if she could provide proof of someone else being responsible, then BD's attorney's could use that in their appeals for BD.

 

[Jaiddie]

Did Zellner represent Charles Erickson?

Found an article from 2014 that reported this:


But I don't see that she was representing him and dropped him.

I know she represents SA right now, she doesn't represent Brendan. It seems somewhat similar, although I have never followed the Furguson/Erickson case. I would assume that if she could provide proof of someone else being responsible, then BD's attorney's could use that in their appeals for BD.

I think that the reason that Zellner didn't represent Erickson or (now) Dassey is for conflict of interests reasons. I could be wrong, but I don't think lawyers can represent 2 different people involved in the same crime...however, by Zellner being able to completely exonerate HER clients in the crime, it makes it easier for another attorney to then be able to successfully make a case for the defendants that she was NOT able to defend due to the conflict of interest. JMO.

 

[Jaiddie]

I think we will be seeing something happening with these cases quite soon, as Zellner is getting MUCH more vocal about the case now. It is no longer just tweets. Here is a couple links showing this to be the case.

http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-mur...-steven-avery-sexually-abused-brendan-dassey/

http://fawesome.ifood.tv/news/10113067-making-a-murderer-kathleen-zellner-defends-steven-avery

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I think we will be seeing something happening with these cases quite soon, as Zellner is getting MUCH more vocal about the case now. It is no longer just tweets. Here is a couple links showing this to be the case.

http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-mur...-steven-avery-sexually-abused-brendan-dassey/

http://fawesome.ifood.tv/news/10113067-making-a-murderer-kathleen-zellner-defends-steven-avery

Children who are abused DO NOT LIE and make that **** up! I'm sorry, I have to believe BrD about this. Kathleen Zellner should be ashamed of herself for even stating that it was made up. I've done a lot a research when I was younger on sexual abuse and have to agree with the O'Donnell's statement: “I’m not sure if Dassey, if he really was as slow and as simple as the documentary makes him out to be, could make that sort of thing up,” O’Donnell said.

It makes me sick to my stomach that she would even say that Dassey lied about that. I have no love loss for her--I know someone she represented on a medical malpractice suit--and he isn't the most beloved character and in my opinion the guy sues for a living. What a great clientele.

Sorry--throwing a disabled kid under the bus for all the publicity in the world to get her "client" out of jail and earn millions by suing the government doesn't sit well for me.

 

[pleasestandby]

I think we will be seeing something happening with these cases quite soon, as Zellner is getting MUCH more vocal about the case now. It is no longer just tweets. Here is a couple links showing this to be the case.

http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-mur...-steven-avery-sexually-abused-brendan-dassey/

Excerpt from the transcript on the above page:

M. Why didn't you come to me, because then he would have been gone then and this wouldn't have happened.

B. Ya

M. Yes, and you would still be here with me.

B. Yes, Well you know I did it.

I interpret the last sentence of BD as "I did come to you and tell you. You already knew about it."

As far as Ken Kratz's statement, "The prosecutor in the case, Ken Kratz, said the state was never asked to investigate the veracity of any sexual molestation allegations."

Duh, that's your job to investigate. Nobody has to ask you. You didn't investigate because you knew the statements weren't true. The police knew the statements weren't true, otherwise they would have brought charges. Your house of cards would have come crashing down if you did investigate. A very telling sign that you and the police coerced that confession.

We hear a lot from SA (through his lawyer), but have heard no statements from BD since he went to prison. Now, suddenly, they move BD to a new prison hundreds of miles away from his family, to the same prison where Jeff Dahmer was conveniently murdered. Why is BD suddenly being isolated from his family? Why aren't the media allowed access to him? What are you people hiding and afraid of?

 

[pleasestandby]

Children who are abused DO NOT LIE and make that **** up! I'm sorry, I have to believe BrD about this. Kathleen Zellner should be ashamed of herself for even stating that it was made up. I've done a lot a research when I was younger on sexual abuse and have to agree with the O'Donnell's statement: “I’m not sure if Dassey, if he really was as slow and as simple as the documentary makes him out to be, could make that sort of thing up,” O’Donnell said.

It makes me sick to my stomach that she would even say that Dassey lied about that. I have no love loss for her--I know someone she represented on a medical malpractice suit--and he isn't the most beloved character and in my opinion the guy sues for a living. What a great clientele.

Sorry--throwing a disabled kid under the bus for all the publicity in the world to get her "client" out of jail and earn millions by suing the government doesn't sit well for me.

The police and the DA would have been all over this if they thought it had any merit. It would have been another nail in the coffin for SA. Just on those charges alone they could have kept SA in prison for most of his life. But, it wasn't in their script and they had to bury it. Deep within the prison walls.

Many other convicts in other cases have been allowed to make interviews after going to prison. Not these two. They've been buried by the system.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

The police and the DA would have been all over this if they thought it had any merit. It would have been another nail in the coffin for SA. Just on those charges alone they could have kept SA in prison for most of his life. But, it wasn't in their script and they had to bury it. Deep within the prison walls.

Many other convicts in other cases have been allowed to make interviews after going to prison. Not these two. They've been buried by the system.

I don't agree. Why would they pursue it--if they knew they had SA on murder charges. Why follow up and prosecute a he said/she said crime? There was no "evidence" that SA touched BrD---but that DOESN'T mean it didn't happen.

Clinicians and researchers in the field of sexual abuse are in agreement that false allegations by children are extremely rare [7].
http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/25009/0000436.pdf

 

[missy1974]

I come in here and see what you guys are discussing... and ironically, this is what Zellner tweeted this morning...

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw
28 yrs: SA wrongly convicted of others crimes/wrongly accused of crimes that never happened. Poor+ disabled= disposable.
#MakingAMurderer

 

[missy1974]

I am not sure that we can rely on any research in this situation. This is a child that was also coerced into confessing to a very brutal murder. Is there stats for that? Is there research for that? If a child confesses to a crime he did not commit and lies about it.... but we are to believe that the abuse statement is 100% true?

I don't know if it's true or not, it is pretty hard to believe anything that BD said to investigators. IMO

 

[pleasestandby]

I don't agree. Why would they pursue it--if they knew they had SA on murder charges.

They would pursue it because the law says they should pursue it. There was he said/she said "evidence" that TH was sexually assaulted.

Why follow up and prosecute that he said/she said crime of sexual assault? Why, when they knew they had BD on murder charges? I'm using your own line of reasoning against you.

BD stated on the witness stand that he made those "confessions" up based on a book he had read, Kiss the Girls.

 

[missy1974]

ahhh I just found the trial transcripts all in one document. Not sure how I missed that before!!!! Dang.... so much easier to do a search in there! LOL

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Full-Jury-Trial-Transcript-combined.pdf

 

[Sinsaint]

Of course her family deserves the truth. Only the killer can give them that as well as the reason why. I'm not sure why that is so difficult to understand.

In a case like this, where her body was almost disintegrated, physical evidence of rape is impossible. That does not mean it didn't happen. What do you think they doing before she died? Baking cookies? You make it sound like she died in a beautiful and peaceful fashion and are offended if anyone suggests otherwise.

When Dassey described how she pleaded with him to do the right thing, I believe he was speaking the truth. That was not made up, he was remembering it and I hope it still haunts him. Doesn't sound like she was having a good time if she was pleading for her life. One might say it would be torture.

I first followed this case years ago on another forum. I didn't just watch it on Netflix and think I know all the facts.

Hmmm... Right after Fassbender asked him if she was crying or saying anything? Was she begging for her life? Yeah, BD was certainly coming up with tons of information right after the investigators suggested it to him.

Explain something to me... If Dassey was telling the truth about Avery murdering Halbach why did he tell investigators at the very end that he was sad because he thought for months Steven hadn't killed her? Doesn't quite fit if Dassey watched Avery kill her.

 

[Sustained]

I am not sure that we can rely on any research in this situation. This is a child that was also coerced into confessing to a very brutal murder. Is there stats for that? Is there research for that? If a child confesses to a crime he did not commit and lies about it.... but we are to believe that the abuse statement is 100% true?

I don't know if it's true or not, it is pretty hard to believe anything that BD said to investigators. IMO

Agreed Missy ... but after reading the 5/13/06 transcript with BD, it's hard to believe there aren't some bits of truth in it. Like when he talks the rumors of SA having sex with Marie and that Marie told him so.

 

[missy1974]

Another tweet:

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw
Fassbender first suggested to BD that SA improperly touched.Allows BD to justify false confession-frame & defame#Factbender #MakingAMurderer

 

[Jaiddie]

Whoever is behind the media blitz to defame the documentary are messing up big time. They should have taken a page from Lenk's book, and kept their lips zipped. ( I am soooo happy they didn't though.) Instead, they decided to do damage control beginning with Kratz's "list of damning evidence" that the doc supposedly left out. When that backfired, as that "list" is easily debunked, they decided to use that Dan O'Donnel guy and his ridiculous podcast. He just tows the line that Kratz created and now it is gonna bite them in the butt. Anything they say now KZ is gonna come back at them twice as hard. They have now angered Zellner enough that she is naming names. Started with Kratz, now she is singling out Fassbender's role. Wonder who is gonna be next? I can't wait, because you know there are many people squirming right now. :worms:

 

[angelainwi]

I'd love to see their communication logs right about now.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I am not sure that we can rely on any research in this situation. This is a child that was also coerced into confessing to a very brutal murder. Is there stats for that? Is there research for that? If a child confesses to a crime he did not commit and lies about it.... but we are to believe that the abuse statement is 100% true?

I don't know if it's true or not, it is pretty hard to believe anything that BD said to investigators. IMO

I didn't research that--and I've never come across that situation in the research that I've done--I'll have to admit. So, yes I will give you that--but in my opinion--I believe he was telling the truth to his mother about that--why would he lie to his mother (hopefully the one person who he would know and trust the most)?

He wasn't talking to LE--he was talking to his mother....

It didn't have anything to do with his confession....or are you saying that he told his mother that because he believed that LE convinced him it happened and he decided to confess that to his mother....doesn't make sense to me....

 

[BigCityAccountant]

They would pursue it because the law says they should pursue it. There was he said/she said "evidence" that TH was sexually assaulted.

Why follow up and prosecute that he said/she said crime of sexual assault? Why, when they knew they had BD on murder charges? I'm using your own line of reasoning against you.

BD stated on the witness stand that he made those "confessions" up based on a book he had read, Kiss the Girls.

I disagree--there are plenty of crimes that have occurred where LE believes the crime occurred but they don't have enough evidence to pursue it. You believe that they bring charges in those cases just to lose the case? Take a look at the Killing Fields show on Discovery Channel--they believed the ex-husband committed the crime--but they can't prove it (yet)--they haven't brought charges against the ex (yet).

 

[BigCityAccountant]

ahhh I just found the trial transcripts all in one document. Not sure how I missed that before!!!! Dang.... so much easier to do a search in there! LOL

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Full-Jury-Trial-Transcript-combined.pdf

Awesome---Thanks for sharing Missy! :happydance:

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Agreed Missy ... but after reading the 5/13/06 transcript with BD, it's hard to believe there aren't some bits of truth in it. Like when he talks the rumors of SA having sex with Marie and that Marie told him so.

Is Marie the girl from 2004--the family member that alleged she was raped by SA?