GUILTY Netherlands - Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 #4

  • #181
One question that has been distressing relatives is whether they will accept only partial remains, or if they will wait an extended time for all of the body parts to be identified.

But most of the next of kin are agreed on one thing: they want the repatriation of all the bodies from the one family killed to stay together and be brought back at the same time.
Inspector Way said these were very difficult decisions.

“It is a choice for the family,’’ he said.

“If the remains are incomplete they can wait until the end or they can take the remains as they are and then when others are discovered we will repatriate and reunite those remains. The families can also wait until all members are identified and they can be released at the same time.’’

In The Netherlands there has been an outcry after grieving families have been told not to open the caskets when the bodies are returned to them.

The police liaison officials attached to the families have come under attack for making the suggestion sound like a formal directive. But Mr de Bruijn insisted the families were not under any such order.

http://www.news.com.au/world/europe...rifying-question/story-fnh81p7g-1227018940893

BBM


Entirely missed the outcry, so I'd call it the alledged outcry.

What I know is that given the state the remains are in, the identification team may in certain cases advise against families seeing the remains, or, if this is possible, allow them to see the part that is least damaged, if this is possible.
 
  • #182
MEANWHILE IN A SHELTER IN DONETSK ....


BurY09jIgAAQKD6.jpg



Simon Kruse ‏@crusoes 10 min.

Some 50 people in bomb shelter in northern Donetsk. No electricity. Some down here for 72 hours.




Simon Kruse is Moscow Correspondent, Danish newspaper @berlingske and currently (still) in Donetsk.
 
  • #183
1z4xpx2.jpg


Meanwhile, the last of the Dutch, Australian and Malaysian investigators were returning to The Netherlands, national news agency ANP reported.

The final flight of returning police investigators was expected to land at the southern city of Eindhoven late on Saturday night.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-...-victims-identified.html#sthash.QXFKnuvB.dpuf


expert-mh17-anp-eindhoven_0.jpg


There are some things I do not understand about pictures and sizes .... but here is one of the dogs.
The black dog jumps off the slippery stairs....
 
  • #184
Lawyers seek MH17 compo fund

Shine Lawyers senior solicitor Joseph Wheeler has been working in the law firm's aviation department on options for compensation for families of victims.

Mr Wheeler told AAP one of the best options would be for a multi-country fund to be set up to help the families.

This would avoid a "long and drawn-out combination of politics and diplomacy", seen after previous disasters such as the Lockerbie bombing.

"We will be lobbying the government of all the nationalities affected to set up some sort of victims fund to compensate them earlier," Mr Wheeler said.

British lawyers have been examining a class action against the Russian President Vladimir Putin through US courts but this is considered unlikely to succeed.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/24684973/lawyers-seek-mh17-compo-fund/
 
  • #185
PRO-RUSSIAN SEPARATISTS: WE SALVAGED ALL REMAINS AND BELONGINGS

RTL-Nieuws reports:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/buitenland/rebellen-alle-bezittingen-slachtoffers-overgedragen


According to the pro-Russian separatists, all remains and personal belongings of flight MH17 were salvaged and transferred to the Ukrainian authorities.

The "Deputy Prime Minister" of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk reported this to Interfax news agency. At the crash site nothing is left, he says.

"We have found the remains of all the victims. Including the bodies of the people who have lain a long time under debris," said Andrej Poergin. "These we transferred to Ukraine."

The pro-Russian rebels claim they have brought everything by train to Kharkiv, that is under control of Kiev. "At the crash site no more human remains are left," he emphasized. "There is nothing except wreckage."

Although the Ukrainian army has recaptured a lot of land since the disaster on July 17, fighting between rebels and Ukrainian troops is still ongoing in the disaster zone. Which is why last week the repatriation mission was put on hold: the crash site is too unsafe for searches and salvage work.

BBM
 
  • #186
PUTIN HAS STUMBLED IN UKRAINE

Max Seddon recommends an essay by Fyodor Lukyanov

max seddon ‏@maxseddon:

Sharp and surprisingly critical piece from Lukyanov on the mess Putin finds himself in in Ukraine.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/putin-has-stumbled-in-ukraine/504839.html …


But most importantly, after the upheavals of the 1980s and '90s, Putin was just the kind of leader people wanted: not brilliant, but dependable, capable of finally bringing the endless chaos to a close and ensuring the return of hope for the future. Putin, whom few initially considered an appropriate fit for politics, consolidated Russian society around the idea of stability.

(...)

Putin's departure from his usual realistic approach thrust Russia into a serious international crisis. The civil war in eastern Ukraine brought Moscow back from the global level to the local. Russia is now bogged down in an internecine conflict in a neighboring country with unclear goals and questionable methods. Most importantly, the end result of the internal conflict will not impact global politics on a large scale or the current global balance of power.

What we can take from this situation is that Russia is undergoing a crisis of purpose. The Soviet identity is definitively gone, and nothing convincing has emerged to replace it. No large-scale national development project, demand for which comes from the populace, has been proposed.

And the fight for Ukraine, which began as a geopolitical squabble, has turned into a moment of decision about Russia's future path. Putin has been successful in achieving the goals set 15 years ago. But today the time has come to achieve new goals, ones that have yet to be defined.


BBM
 
  • #187
PRESSCO AUSTRALIAN PM ABBOTT AND DUTCH PM RUTTE


Australian PM Abbott is in The Netherlands today for talks on MH17 with Dutch PM Rutte.

Pressco any moment now ...

Dutch PM Rutte:

The Netherlands and Australia are united in grief.
We agree that halting the mission was the only option.
I want to express my heartfelt gratitude to all Australians who have done a wonderful job and are still doing a wonderful job in Hilversum.
We agree that we want to rertun to the site of the crash as soon as it is safe to do so.
Meanwhile, the criminal investigation will proceed.
We will continue to work together. Our our partnership is committed. We have had good contacts over the years, we share visions and actions.
We are determined to conitinue.

Australian PM Abbott:

I am here on a sad mission and to thank a good friend for their leadership and commitment.
Let's be cristal clear: when MH17 was downed, the murder of innocent Australians and others was no mean thing.
We had to draw a very strong response
We found that the Dutch were not only our partners in grief, but also in demanding justice
We set up a mission to do what we could: Bring them home.
This mission is upheld, not finished.
We owe it to the dead, to the grieving families, to bring them home and give them justice.
The moment the dead arrived here an extraordinary solemnity and dignty was given to them.
We have worked together in friendship and harmony.
We admire the perfection, the commitment and the courage of the Dutch.
This (sad time) has been an good time for our countries and our friendship.
We are looking forward to working together with you and your people in the years to come.

=====

All mistakes mine, I took notes and they were both much better.
 
  • #188
PRO-RUSSIAN SEPARATISTS: WE SALVAGED ALL REMAINS AND BELONGINGS

RTL-Nieuws reports:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/buitenland/rebellen-alle-bezittingen-slachtoffers-overgedragen


According to the pro-Russian separatists, all remains and personal belongings of flight MH17 were salvaged and transferred to the Ukrainian authorities.

The "Deputy Prime Minister" of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk reported this to Interfax news agency. At the crash site nothing is left, he says.

"We have found the remains of all the victims. Including the bodies of the people who have lain a long time under debris," said Andrej Poergin. "These we transferred to Ukraine."

The pro-Russian rebels claim they have brought everything by train to Kharkiv, that is under control of Kiev. "At the crash site no more human remains are left," he emphasized. "There is nothing except wreckage."

Although the Ukrainian army has recaptured a lot of land since the disaster on July 17, fighting between rebels and Ukrainian troops is still ongoing in the disaster zone. Which is why last week the repatriation mission was put on hold: the crash site is too unsafe for searches and salvage work.

BBM

That's just a lie, and a stupid one at that. I wouldn't want such a fool on my side. He's an embarrassment for anyone he supports.
 
  • #189
  • #190
Only cowards lie and don't say sorry for their mistakes.....
 
  • #191
IDENTIFICATION OF ALL REMAINS AVAILABLE EXPECTED BY AUGUST 20

NOS.nl reports:
http://nos.nl/artikel/685157-identificatie-slachtoffers-gaat-snel.html

Identification of remains is proceeding swiftly


The identification of the victims of the plane crash in Ukraine is proceeding relatively fast, Police Chief Bouman said in a briefing with Parliament.

Bouman expects that by August 20 at the latest the Dutch Forensic Institute (NFI) will have determined all DNA profiles belonging to the human material that was found at the crash site of the downed plane MH17 in Ukraine.

He is of the opinion that most of the remains and belongings of the victims have now been brought back in The Netherlands. According to him, not only forensic experts, but at least 800 people from the local population searched the region.

BBM
 
  • #192
That's just a lie, and a stupid one at that. I wouldn't want such a fool on my side. He's an embarrassment for anyone he supports.


zwiebelfury ...... :hills: :hills: :hills:


I'd like to think that most remains were collected and brought to The Netherlands. Because of the families, not because I'd want this Mr Poergin to be right.

And if he is right after all, he must be desperate for friends.

IMHO the person who knows most of what happened, is Alexander Hug, Deputy Chief of OSCE.

Tweet from Ilona de Ruyter, press secretary for Pieter-Jaap Aalbersberg, Head of Repatriation Mission #MH17.
https://twitter.com/ideruyter/status/497713541252517888

Aalbersberg: @OSCE_SMM delivered a top performance in negotiating access to the crash site #MH17

aalbersberghug.jpg

Translation:

That it was possible for the Dutch and their colleagues from Malaysia and Australia, to work at all was due to the OSCE, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, that has established an important network in the region. Aalbersberg: They negotiated with the rebels, not us. The Swiss Alexander Hug, of the OSCE, who has the confidence of the separatists, has delivered a genuine top performance.

Also local rescuers - members of the local fire brigade and ordinary villagers who performed the first salvage operations, did so in the eyes of Aalbersberg with respect for the victims. There may have been about 800 to 1000 people. They had everything neatly stacked and organized. Also valuable ...




BBM
 
  • #193
Australia's FM, Julie Bishop, is not letting go of Russia.

She is most unhappy that they chose our day of mourning to announce sanctions against Australia.

And she is most unhappy that they appear to be using humanitarian reasons for amassing military might on their border with Ukraine.


Julie Bishop stares down Russia over MH17 tragedy

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has dramatically stepped up Australia's condemnation of Moscow over the flight MH17 tragedy, accusing it of trying to use humanitarian help as a pretext for an occupation.

Ms Bishop, speaking alongside senior US officials including her counterpart, Secretary of State John Kerry, also left open the door for further sanctions against Russia, including pushing for a ban on President Vladimir Putin's attendance at the G20 meeting in Brisbane.

Moscow has recently been claiming there is a humanitarian crisis in eastern Ukraine and using it to shift people and equipment into the area.

Ms Bishop also called on China to help pile more pressure on Moscow to stop the flow of weapons and military personnel into Ukraine.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...17-tragedy-20140812-103c8f.html#ixzz3AFjjHmeo
 
  • #194
For now, Operation Bring Them Home has become Operation Wait and See.

While Prime Minister Tony Abbott reaffirmed his pledge to leave none of Australia's MH17 crash victims left abandoned in a foreign field, some of the dead may lie there for months to come, the operation to reunite them with their loved ones made impossible by the war raging over their temporary resting place.

In a ‘‘mission-not-yet-accomplished’’ visit to Australian troops in the Netherlands, Mr Abbott praised the work of the defence personnel who are about to return to Australia.

In the meantime the ADF are flying recently-delivered Australian equipment back out of Ukraine, including trucks and police vehicles. Their C17 military planes are to be redeployed elsewhere in the world and the personnel returning to Australia.

Squadron leader Dean Bolton – who personally flew one of the missions to recover the bodies from Ukraine – said there was still work to be done and the 36th Squadron "are ready to do what needs to be done".

"A few people have already headed back to Australia and everyone who has gone home . . . has gone kicking and screaming because they want to be here as much as they can to help finish the mission," he said. "Everyone has taken personal pride (in their role)."

http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-to...ait-and-see-20140812-3djam.html#ixzz3AFl5ShWk
 
  • #195
IGOR STREILKOV, ALLEDGED SHOOTER OF MH17 BADLY WOUNDED




http://en.itar-tass.com/world/744833

KIEV, August 13. /ITAR-TASS/. Defense minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic Igor Strelkov has been badly wounded and is in a serious condition, the Donetsk-based news agency Novosossiya said on Wednesday.

Other sources have not confirmed Novorossiya's report so far.




BBM


It has been suggested by some that the separatists and / or Russians who fired the BUK-missile that downed MH17, will disappear or be disappeared quietly, in order to prevent that anyone will ever be brought to justice. Well, those are the cynics of this planet. They may have a point, though.
 
  • #196
Well, Russia is certainly hating on Australia right now .. I think they wish we would just shut up and go away ...

Russia slams Australia over blame for downed airliner

Russia has described as "unacceptable" the blame placed on it by Australia for Moscow's perceived role in the crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in July.

“On the whole, it seems that burdened by their own oversized ambitions, some members of the current Australian government have completely lost an adequate picture of the developments in Ukraine and around it,”

“They keep making absurd statements that the humanitarian convoy to help civilians in the south-east of Ukraine can be used as a pretext for Russia’s ‘armed invasion’ of the neighbouring country,”

“Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has gone farther than others in making irresponsible innuendoes against our country even though one would think that her position presupposes building bridges between countries, not destroying them,” the Ministry said.

In June, Australia blacklisted 50 Russians businesspeople and 11 businesses following Moscow's annexation of what had been the Ukrainian region of Crimea.


http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-ru...d-airliner-20140814-103u4c.html#ixzz3AJfomHXW
 
  • #197
FIRST MALAYSIAN VICTIMS WILL RETURN HOME NEXT WEEK

RTL-Nieuws reports:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/buitenland/eerste-maleisische-slachtoffers-mh17-naar-huis


Next Friday the first bodies of Malaysian crash victims will be returned to Malaysia. The country has declared a Day of National Mourning on that day.

According to Deputy Prime Minister Muhyiddin Yassin 16 victims will be arriving in their homeland that day at 10:00 am (04:00 o'clock am Dutch time). They are transported by a special plane.


After landing in Kuala Lumpur there will be a ceremony with a moment of silence. Among others, the King, Prime Minister Najib Razak and relatives will be present. People of the Malaysian Air Force will carry the coffins with the bodies from the plane to the funeral cars.

After The Netherlands, Malaysia is the country that is most affected by the crash with MH17. Of the passengers 43 came from that country, two of them also had a Dutch passport. According to the Deputy Prime Minister, 24 Malaysian victims have now been identified.


:rose:
 
  • #198
RUSSIAN INVASION OF EAST UKRAINE EXPECTED TONIGHT


Michael Weiss, columnist for NOW Lebanon, Foreign Policy, Daily Beast. Editor-in-Chief of http://interpretermag.com :


Michael Weiss @michaeldweiss

One of Putin's former political technologists says 'Something I don't trust about this night'. Take notice:

----- Gleb Pavlovsky @GlebPavlovsky
----- что-то я этой ночи не доверяю. Будьте осторожны http://fb.me/1dzH2dM9s


Russian military vehicles enter Ukraine as aid convoy stops short of border http://gu.com/p/4vmqx/tw


Journalists were allowed to watch the convoy; that means Russia knew they'd see APCs going in. The mask is off now.


BBM

InterpreterMag has a live blog about Ukraine: http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-178-russian-aid-convoy-on-the-move-again/
 
  • #199
Any type of plane crash or large tragedy is so awful. For many people it's not even something they can comprehend.

This particular horror is so much more awful than many things I could have imagined.

Thank you ZaZara and everyone else who is keeping this thread up to date.

I had to completely walk away from this pretty early on, my poor sheltered American mind had to shut it off. :facepalm:

:rose: x millions because I can't count the number of people this has affected.
 
  • #200
Our first Aussie/New Zealand/Dutch couple has been identified.

10388062.jpg



The family of Mary Menke - who was killed alongside her husband on the doomed flight MH17 - is "relieved" she will return home after being formally identified.

Menke's Victoria-based family confirmed through the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade today that Menke, 65, and her Dutch husband Gerry, 70, had been identified by authorities after the Malaysian Airlines flight was shot down over Ukraine on July 17.

The Menkes had lived in Mallacoota, about 500 kilometres east of Melbourne.

“We are relieved that Mary and Gerry Menke have been identified and wish to thank all those who have helped in this process," the Menke family said.

"We look forward to receiving Mary and Gerry again soon in the place and the community they loved so much and which loved them. Once again we extend our deepest condolences to all those affected by this tragedy.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/10387831/Kiwi-MH17-victim-Mary-Menke-identified
 

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