GUILTY Netherlands - Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 #4

[SouthAussie]

They are doing really well with the identification process. Not releasing too much info - not even nationalities - as it is up to the families to do that, if they wish to.


"Dutch forensic experts have so far identified 127 victims."

http://www.news.com.au/world/mh17-first-australian-bodies-identified/story-fndir2ev-1227025224188

 

[ZaZara]

DUTCH COUPLE WILL BE BURIED TOGETHER

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/mh17/22971540/__Stel_samen_begraven_na_MH17__.html

The bodies of Karlijn Keijzer and her friend Laurens van der Graaff, who both died in the disaster of flight MH17 have now been identified. The parents of Keijzer have made this known. The couple will be buried together in private.



Karlijn (25) was a science student at the University of Indiana (USA).
Laurens (30) had been an editor with the Dutch student magazine Propria Cures until recently.
His colleagues wrote him a glowing tribute:

http://www.propriacures.nl/2014/07/in-memoriam-lvdg-1984-2014/

Translation:

(...)

For people who knew Laurens it came as no surprise that it took a surface-to-air missile to bring that powerful body of his to a stop. Laurens was, unlike most PC editors, who look with a mixture of horror and incomprehension to any form of physical exertion, particularly sporty by nature. Next to his editorship, he was active for the rowing club Skøll and filled the empty hours with basketball and squash. However, the sport was not the only thing that made Laurens an exceptional editor. Laurens was amiable, interested, sincere. He was, in short, a pleasant man, and remained until the end good friends with everyone who sat with him on the editorial board. Not surprisingly Laurens befriended almost everybody who crossed his path. The party could only start when Laurens was there. He swung his bag (one cubic meter of brown bread sandwiches included) into a corner, cried 'Hallootjes!' at a maximum volume, shook large hands and passed around smackers, and pulled the whole thing going. The prospect of a drink without our soulmate and pacemaker is downright scary; the image of a pub full of editors silently picking their beer coasters emerges.

In addition to his roles as a polemicist and a sportsman, Laurens put his exceptional talent for human interaction to work in education. Whoever saw Laurens engaged as a teacher at the Dutch Geert Groote College in Amsterdam knows that it is an inestimable loss to his students that they will not see him return after the holidays. Many a teacher will punish a student, who depicts one of the most horrific scenes of Reynard the Fox in a vibrant drawing. Whooping with laughter, Laurens shared the picture on his Facebook page. Shortly before his death he took his students on an excursion to the Royal Library. To his own surprise, Laurens achieved the impossible once again and leafed with his own hands through the capital Gruuthuusehandschrift, a dream come true for every Dutch scholar. When he passionately spoke about his teachings we saw before us how Laurens recited in his thundering voice 'On Rika' by Piet Paaltjens, one of his favorite poems, all while preventing his students from making all mistakes in grammar he had once made himself. If Laurens had started as a teacher ten years earlier, far less lousy novels would have been published.

(...)

 

[SouthAussie]

"The mobile phone of Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop was compromised while she was overseas negotiating access to the Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash site, it has been revealed.

Ms Bishop travelled to Ukraine, the Netherlands and the United States during her two-week trip to secure access to the site in eastern Ukraine.

Intelligence officials seized Ms Bishop's phone when she returned to Australia from talks with leaders overseas."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-...e-phone-compromised-during-mh17-talks/5675798

:thinking:

 

[SouthAussie]

"A month after the MH17 air disaster in eastern Ukraine the investigation still has a very long way to go, the BBC's Anna Holligan reports from The Hague.

This is the biggest criminal investigation ever conducted in the Netherlands.

"Never before have we had a murder case with so many victims," said Wim de Bruin from the Dutch prosecution service, fielding press inquiries from all over the world. Passengers from 10 different countries were on board Flight MH17.

Ten Dutch prosecutors and 200 police officers are involved in gathering and preparing the evidence for a criminal trial.

There are three main questions about the eventual MH17 trial: Where will it be conducted? What crimes will the accused be charged with? How long before we see the suspects in court?

The Dutch prosecutors are still in the initial stages of the criminal investigation, but they have already dismissed speculation that the trial could be held at the International Criminal Court in The Hague."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28808832

 

[ZaZara]

149 IDENTIFICATIONS MADE

http://nos.nl/artikel/687308-identificatieproces-mh17-op-de-helft.html

149 Victims have been identified so far.
That's exactly one half of the number of people who were on board flight MH17.

Last Thursday the number of victimes identiefied stood at 127. Of the 22 new identifications, 14 have the Dutch nationality.
Nationalities of the remaining 8 are not yet published. This is done at the request of the embassies of the countries concerned.

Today a month ago, MH17 was downed.




:rose:

 

[kimi_SFC]

:rose:
:tears:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ZaZara]

WHERE IS UKRAINE??

The less Americans know about Ukraine’s location, the more they want U.S. to intervene

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...location-the-more-they-want-u-s-to-intervene/

"Since Russian troops first entered the Crimean peninsula in early March, a series of media polling outlets have asked Americans how they want the U.S. to respond to the ongoing situation. Although two-thirds of Americans have reported following the situation at least “somewhat closely,” most Americans actually know very little about events on the ground — or even where the ground is."

"We found that only one out of six Americans can find Ukraine on a map, and that this lack of knowledge is related to preferences: The farther their guesses were from Ukraine’s actual location, the more they wanted the U.S. to intervene with military force."

BBM

Map. Every dot represents a location where an US American situated Ukraine.
Red dots: most accurate. Blue dots: least accurate.

 

[SouthAussie]

The Prime Minister had come to pay his respects to the Dutch people and thank the Australians involved in Operation Bring Them Home, an undertaking proving a lot more difficult than its instigators first imagined.

As journalists we wanted a headline, some hard news to accompany the trip. Tougher sanctions against Russia, news that Australian victims had been identified, perhaps word on Australian involvement in aid drops in Iraq.

There was none of that and the cynics in all of us wondered what the point of it was.

But the Dutch did not see it that way.

That was evident from the way they responded to this foreign leader who had come to pay tribute to the dead, almost 200 of whom called the Netherlands home.

They thanked him for coming, and I think they meant it.

When the Prime Minister remarked that the Netherlands had suffered a terrible loss, one woman said immediately "but your country too".

I am certainly not the first to notice the dignified way the Dutch have responded to this terrible loss of life. But it was the first time I experienced it and it was striking.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-...it-of-pm-tony-abbott-after-mh17-crash/5676446

 

[ZaZara]

MEMORIAL SERVICE FOR THE VICTIMS FROM HILVERSUM

http://nos.nl/artikel/687455-nabestaanden-mh17-spreken.html

Translation:


It was an unfortunate coincidence that a large number of victims of the disaster flight MH17 came from Hilversum or in some other way had a connection with the city. Five families of the victims will speak this afternoon at a special memorial service. Also, there is a silent procession.

Some families speak themselves, some will let others do the talking on their behalf. The meeting takes place in the St. Vitus Church and is led by Father Jules Dresmé. The Radio Choir sings and Lavinia Meijer plays harp. Also, the mayor of Hilversum, Peter Broertjes, will give a speech. The NOS (Dutch television) records the meeting.

In the downing of the aircraft in the Eastern Ukraine, exactly one month ago, thirteen people of Hilversum died. Three families who lived in the city and a boy. Also, a couple will be remembered who lived for decades in New Zealand, but whose husband was born in Hilversum.

Preceding the memorial there is a silent procession through part of the city. It starts at 13:30 at the Laapersveld. The organization requests that participants come dressed in white. Subsequently the memorial service begins at 15:00 am in the St. Vitus Church.

In the church there hundreds of people can be seated, but when it is full, the memorial service can be followed on large screens outside on the church grounds.

 

[ZaZara]

The Prime Minister had come to pay his respects to the Dutch people and thank the Australians involved in Operation Bring Them Home, an undertaking proving a lot more difficult than its instigators first imagined.

As journalists we wanted a headline, some hard news to accompany the trip. Tougher sanctions against Russia, news that Australian victims had been identified, perhaps word on Australian involvement in aid drops in Iraq.

There was none of that and the cynics in all of us wondered what the point of it was.

But the Dutch did not see it that way.

That was evident from the way they responded to this foreign leader who had come to pay tribute to the dead, almost 200 of whom called the Netherlands home.

They thanked him for coming, and I think they meant it.

When the Prime Minister remarked that the Netherlands had suffered a terrible loss, one woman said immediately "but your country too".

I am certainly not the first to notice the dignified way the Dutch have responded to this terrible loss of life. But it was the first time I experienced it and it was striking.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-...it-of-pm-tony-abbott-after-mh17-crash/5676446

Amazing viewpoint of this journalist. I do find it a bit shocking that she'd write things like this:

You could legitimately ask if it was really necessary for Mr Abbott to fly around the world to spend 24 hours in the Netherlands, and then head to London for security briefings, which did not appear to yield any tangible results.

This is a huge and complex operation, with criminal and technical investigations by many nations.
We don't know what both PM's spoke about behind closed doors, but IMHO it is obvious that they would have to meet and discuss at some point.

Maybe she is no longer used to the fact that people pay their respects? and honestly thinks that all that life is about is big words and drama? Weird.

 

[SouthAussie]

Amazing viewpoint of this journalist. I do find it a bit shocking that she'd write things like this:



This is a huge and complex operation, with criminal and technical investigations by many nations.
We don't know what both PM's spoke about behind closed doors, but IMHO it is obvious that they would have to meet and discuss at some point.

Maybe she is no longer used to the fact that people pay their respects? and honestly thinks that all that life is about is big words and drama? Weird.

I agree, Zazara. This tragedy evidently did not deeply touch her in the way that it touched the rest of us Aussies. Not a lot of compassion there.

Being the Europe correspondent, maybe she has lost touch with the vibe from Australia. Or maybe she never caught the Aussie vibe ... she apparently only emigrated here in 2006 - 8 years ago. The rest of us were happy that our PM made the trip and expressed our condolences, showed support and thanks for the investigators, and provided a presence for our victims.


"Barbara Miller
Barbara joined ABC Radio Current Affairs in 2006, shortly after emigrating to Australia. She reports for the AM, PM and The World Today. You can often hear her covering international and science stories, but she’ll also turn her hand to state politics, courts and social issues."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/barbara-miller/167170

 

[ZaZara]

FIFTEEN WHITE DOVES


Fifteen white doves, one for each victim of Hilversum:

 

[Roselvr]

WHERE IS UKRAINE??

The less Americans know about Ukraine’s location, the more they want U.S. to intervene

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...location-the-more-they-want-u-s-to-intervene/

"Since Russian troops first entered the Crimean peninsula in early March, a series of media polling outlets have asked Americans how they want the U.S. to respond to the ongoing situation. Although two-thirds of Americans have reported following the situation at least “somewhat closely,” most Americans actually know very little about events on the ground — or even where the ground is."

"We found that only one out of six Americans can find Ukraine on a map, and that this lack of knowledge is related to preferences: The farther their guesses were from Ukraine’s actual location, the more they wanted the U.S. to intervene with military force."

BBM

Map. Every dot represents a location where an US American situated Ukraine.
Red dots: most accurate. Blue dots: least accurate.

View attachment 57053

Horrible map.

Who is more accurate?

Accuracy varies across demographic groups. In general, younger Americans tended to provide more accurate responses than their older counterparts: 27 percent of 18-24 year olds correctly identified Ukraine, compared with 14 percent of 65+ year-olds. Men tended to do better than women, with 20 percent of men correctly identifying Ukraine and 13 percent of women. Interestingly, members of military households were no more likely to correctly locate Ukraine (16.1 percent correct) than members of non-military households (16 percent correct), but self-identified independents (29 percent correct) outperformed both Democrats (14 percent correct) and Republicans (15 percent correct). Unsurprisingly, college graduates (21 percent correct) were more likely to know where Ukraine was than non-college graduates (13 percent correct), but even 77 percent of college graduates failed to correctly place Ukraine on a map; the proportion of college grads who could correctly identify Ukraine is only slightly higher than the proportion of Americans who told Pew that President Obama was Muslim in August 2010.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Tweet from @PaulSonne - 1m

Scanner! RT @AndreyOstroukh Russia customs vehicle is huge scanner, OSCE says. #Convoy trucks will drive through it

http://t.co/TI1PaFzH4b

http://twitter.com/PaulSonne/status/501009626968506368



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Niner]

WHERE IS UKRAINE??

The less Americans know about Ukraine’s location, the more they want U.S. to intervene

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...location-the-more-they-want-u-s-to-intervene/

"Since Russian troops first entered the Crimean peninsula in early March, a series of media polling outlets have asked Americans how they want the U.S. to respond to the ongoing situation. Although two-thirds of Americans have reported following the situation at least “somewhat closely,” most Americans actually know very little about events on the ground — or even where the ground is."

"We found that only one out of six Americans can find Ukraine on a map, and that this lack of knowledge is related to preferences: The farther their guesses were from Ukraine’s actual location, the more they wanted the U.S. to intervene with military force."

BBM

Map. Every dot represents a location where an US American situated Ukraine.
Red dots: most accurate. Blue dots: least accurate.

View attachment 57053

Somehow I am NOT surprised... if you aren't born in Europe and have never traveled there. I'm surprised with the 4 or 5 that marked the U.S.; really?? :laughing:

I take all the OCME and inspectors, officers have all left the region?? Or are they still some there, picking up evidence and belongings? TIA! :seeya:

 

[ZaZara]

Somehow I am NOT surprised... if you aren't born in Europe and have never traveled there. I'm surprised with the 4 or 5 that marked the U.S.; really?? :laughing:

I take all the OCME and inspectors, officers have all left the region?? Or are they still some there, picking up evidence and belongings? TIA! :seeya:

They marked Alaska too!
And Australia ..... Iceland .... Falklands .... :thinking:


A small team of Dutch experst is still in the region, outside the war zone.
OSCE (did you mean OSCE instead of OCME?) were already in the regio before the crash and they continue there, on a Special Monitoring Mission.

 

[LambChop]

They marked Alaska too!
And Australia ..... Iceland .... Falklands .... :thinking:


A small team of Dutch experst is still in the region, outside the war zone.
OSCE (did you mean OSCE instead of OCME?) were already in the regio before the crash and they continue there, on a Special Monitoring Mission.

There are Americans who can't even name all the states in the US, or are confused as to where they are located. Europe is difficult because many countries have changed their names in recent years. This is why it is important to travel with your children if you can so they can experience different countries and cultures. Some children grow up never leaving the inner city. jmo

 

[SouthAussie]

"So pull all the evidence together – what do you have?

- The data from air traffic control’s secondary surveillance radar provides MH17’s course and coordinates to within 500 metres.

- The flight data recorder can show whether or not a component or systems failure, or pilot error that caused the loss, and can pinpoint the aircraft’s position even more accurately.

- The specifications of the SA-11/SA-17 missile launcher demonstrates that it is quite capable of destroying an airliner, and that it can if necessary be operated by an inexperienced team, without the safety of an IFF-capable radar.

- Evidence gathered from the wreckage will be able confirm whether the missile was an SA-11/SA-17, and help pinpoint the location of the missile when it was fired, and perhaps even confirm if the system was exported abroad or produced for Russian use.

The evidence is there to be found, and once all of it is available, it will provide a compelling case against whoever fired upon and brought down flight MH17."

http://theconversation.com/heres-how-you-find-out-who-shot-down-mh17-30633

 

[SouthAussie]

"Sky News is to be investigated by the media regulator for broadcasting images of one of its presenters handling a passenger’s belongings at the Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash site.

“Ofcom received over 200 complaints about this news report,” said an Ofcom spokesman. “Having assessed these, there are grounds to investigate under our rule on potentially offensive material. As in all investigations, we will take relevant circumstances into account, including any action taken by the broadcaster, in reaching a decision."

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/aug/18/sky-mh17-ofcom-colin-brazier

 

[Roselvr]

"So pull all the evidence together – what do you have?

- The data from air traffic control’s secondary surveillance radar provides MH17’s course and coordinates to within 500 metres.

- The flight data recorder can show whether or not a component or systems failure, or pilot error that caused the loss, and can pinpoint the aircraft’s position even more accurately.

- The specifications of the SA-11/SA-17 missile launcher demonstrates that it is quite capable of destroying an airliner, and that it can if necessary be operated by an inexperienced team, without the safety of an IFF-capable radar.

- Evidence gathered from the wreckage will be able confirm whether the missile was an SA-11/SA-17, and help pinpoint the location of the missile when it was fired, and perhaps even confirm if the system was exported abroad or produced for Russian use.

The evidence is there to be found, and once all of it is available, it will provide a compelling case against whoever fired upon and brought down flight MH17."

http://theconversation.com/heres-how-you-find-out-who-shot-down-mh17-30633

Is there really any doubt MH17 was shot down? I do not understand what there is to deny. The world saw them boast they did it; we saw them move the rocket launcher. The world knows what happened. They made a horrible mistake where innocent people lost their lives. A horrible mistake that will give people nightmares until the day they die.