GUILTY Netherlands - Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 #4

[ZaZara]

DUTCH PARLIAMENT DEMANDS CLARIFICATION ON UKRANIAN SEARCH TEAMS MH17

Nu.nl reports (October 15)
http://www.nu.nl/algemeen/3903588/kamer-wil-opheldering-oekraiense-zoekteams-mh17.html

Translation:


The Dutch Parliament demands clarity of the Cabinet on the role of the Ukrainian search teams in the repatriation of the remains and belongings of the victims of the disaster flight MH17. A majority of the Parliament wonders why the SES, the Ukrainian local agency for disaster, does succeed in salvaging personal belongings.

The Dutch repatriation mission has in fact been suspended for weeks, because the situation in the disaster area is unsafe.
Despite a cease-fire it looks like seem Kiev and the rebels in the east of Ukraine did not intend to bury the hatchet for a longer period.
Last Friday, Prime Minister Mark Rutte made known that he has given the SES the assignment to continue the work there.
During his weekly press conference, he said he was furious about on the state of the investigation. He blames the Ukrainian government and the rebels for the fact that the investigation cannot be continued because of the instability.

However, the SES did manage to collect much of the belongings of the victims. VVD and Christian Union want the government to tell them why the SES does manage to get access to the area.
D66 wonders why the government has not approached the search teams of the agency much earlier. "Now the SES has only about two weeks before winter falls," said Sjoerd Sjoerdsma (D66).

It also appeared that the locals with the SES already have done a lot of work. The head of the repatriation mission, Pieter Jaap Aalbersberg said on Monday that he is gratefuul for what the Ukranians have done.
CDA believes that the Cabinet owes the locals a gestures of gratitude. "First, the government accuses them of stealing wedding rings and now they are asking the same people for help," said MP Pieter Omtzigt.
SP agreees with Omtzigt. MP Harry van Bommel believes that FM Frans Timmermans has misled the Parliament by insinuating that the investigation was disturbed.
The government should "search its own conscience" said the SP representative who would have preferred that MP Rutte had put more pressure on."Couldn't and shouldn't this government have done more?"

Louis Bontes (VNL) calls the statements of FM Timmermans in the first days after the disaster and during his famous speech in the UN Security Council "a hodgepodge of untruths.
However he does not think that excuses towards Ukraine are in place. "Among them there still are people who shot the airplane down," said Bontes. "A motion of no confidence towards Timmermans is more appropriate."

According PvdA Michiel Servaes it was precisely the Foreign Minister who corrected the negative image of the public. "Timmermans was the first to expres in this House his appreciation for the work that the civilian population carried out."
Moreover, everyone was shocked by those first images, says Servaes. He points out that there indeed were Ukrainians who, for example, had the phone of the victims in their possession.
According to the VVD a sense of anger was predominant at the time, because The Netherlands was denied access to the disaster area.


BBM

VVD and PVDA are the governement parties.

The debate will be continued in the coming weeks.

FM Timmermans has left for the European Commission, his successor FM Koenders (PVDA) was appointed and sworn in today.

 

[ZaZara]

6 NEW IDENTIFICATIONS, 20 VICTIMS STILL TO BE IDENTIFIED


RTL-NIEUWS REPORTS:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/20-slachtoffers-mh17-nog-niet-geidentificeerd

Translation:


This past week six victims of the air crash in Ukraine have been identified. The identity of 20 victims of Flight MH17 is not yet known.

Today exactly three months have passed since the Malaysia Airlines Boeing was shot down. 278 Victims have been identified sofar. In the disaster all 298 passengers and crew were killed.

Among the victims were 196 Dutch passengers. 180 of them have now been identified. In addition, 98 of the 102 non-Dutch victims have been given a name.


BBM

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder if ole Vlad is trying to ease things for himself at the upcoming G20 .....


Australia's Foreign Affairs Minister has buttonholed - not shirt-fronted - Vladimir Putin, and won from him a promise to help international forensic teams regain access to the MH17 crash site.

On Friday morning Ms Bishop again pushed the issue with Russian President Vladimir Putin, during a 25-minute one-on-one chat that also covered the upcoming G20 meeting in Brisbane, and the ISIL threat.

During the conversation, Ms Bishop told Fairfax Media, Mr Putin agreed to use his influence on the rebels in eastern Ukraine, to help teams return to the crash site.
He also agreed to co-operate fully with the investigation into the causes of the crash.

Ms Bishop told Fairfax Media there was a new urgency to the investigation.
"The difficulty is that winter is setting in and there is some urgency about it."

"We want to ensure that we do everything we can to ensure that the remains of all of the Australian citizens aboard that flight are brought back to Australia," Ms Bishop said.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/foreign...ks-over-mh17-site-access-20141017-117ykl.html

 

[SouthAussie]

Meanwhile, Russia and Ukraine have made progress at the Italian summit towards resolving a row over gas supplies, but European leaders said Moscow had to do much more to prop up a fragile ceasefire and end fighting in eastern Ukraine.

The mooted deal aimed at re-opening Russian gas supplies to Ukraine ahead of the cold winter months came as something of a surprise following an initial round of talks in Milan that the Kremlin said was "full of misunderstandings and disagreements".

However, Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko said a subsequent meeting with Mr Putin and the leaders of France and Germany had made some headway in defusing a crisis that has revived memories of Cold War enmity.

"We have the first limited progress on the gas issue. We have agreed on the main parameters of the contract," he said, adding that all sides remain committed to a ceasefire deal struck last month to halt a pro-Russia revolt.

Mr Putin said Moscow had agreed in a deal with France, Germany and Italy to use reconnaissance drones to monitor the shaky truce in eastern Ukraine. (Wonder what else they'll be monitoring with those drones? :facepalm: Just get your troops outta there, Putin! :banghead: )

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-...hop-meets-russian-president-vladimir-/5823684

 

[ZaZara]

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has delivered a diplomatic version of the 'shirt front' promised by Prime Minister Tony Abbott as Russia came under fire over the fate of flight MH17 at the ASEM summit.

Bishop revealed that she had taken her Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov to task on the sidelines of the Asia-Europe gathering.

She said she had bluntly spelled out her government's frustration at what it sees as Moscow's hampering of the Dutch-led probe into the shooting down of the Malaysian airliner over eastern Ukraine in July.

Bishop acknowledged that veteran diplomat Lavrov had flat-batted her complaints, ensuring the explosive issue is likely to resurface when Putin visits Australia for next month's G20 summit.

'The response was somewhat predictable,' Bishop said.

'He said it was a matter for Ukraine, as a crash that occurred in Ukrainian airspace. That is not a view I share.'

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/2014/10/17/bishop-chides-lavrov-over-mh17-probe.html

I really like Julie Bishop!
She's got class and style, and seen from afar - which is always easier of course - she and Mr Abbott are a good combination, he bulldozers a road and she steps politely in. Cool.

Apparently, she passed the Lavrov-test too!
The so called Lavrov-test was coined by insiders in the EU in Brussels.
It refers to the ability to end a five-hour, heated discussion with the massive Russia Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov successfully.


:cheer:

 

[SouthAussie]

I really like Julie Bishop!
She's got class and style, and seen from afar - which is always easier of course - she and Mr Abbott are a good combination, he bulldozers a road and she steps politely in. Cool.

Apparently, she passed the Lavrov-test too!
The so called Lavrov-test was coined by insiders in the EU in Brussels.
It refers to the ability to end a five-hour, heated discussion with the massive Russia Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov successfully.


:cheer:

Yes, I really like her too, ZaZara. Though we see it a little more like Abbott makes an idiot out of himself, and Julie Bishop steps in and repairs the damage while achieving the outcome. But I guess they are a little like a bad cop/good cop team.

She is an excellent choice as our FM. She is not at all intimidated by the big boys, while exhibiting immense degrees of compassion and empathy also. Would not be surprised if she runs for Prime Minister one day .. and wins the vote.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-...hop-meets-russian-president-vladimir-/5823684

 

[ZaZara]

DUTCH PM RUTTE MET WITH RUSSIAN PRESIDENT PUTIN AT SUMMIT IN MILAN


RTL-Nieuws reports:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/poli...etin-dringt-aan-op-medewerking-onderzoek-mh17
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/politiek/rutte-vergeleek-mh17-met-ramp-koersk-gesprek-poetin


Dutch PM Mark Rutte insists on maximum cooperation from the Russian President Vladimir Putin in the aftermath of the disaster with the MH17.

It was the first time since the disaster with the MH17 that the two leaders met each other. The conversation between Rutte and Russian President took place during the two-day summit that was dominated by the conflict in Ukraine.
On the Facebook page of the PM, Rutte writes about the meeting with Putin: "It is an emotionally charged issue, of course I'm angry at all the parties who have made it impossible to go to work in the area immediately after the disaster. But it remains important to achieve our goals. I continue to seize every opportunity to bring this to the attention [of all involved].

During the conversation between Dutch PM Rutte and Russian President Putin, Rutte made ​​a comparison with the Kursk, the Russian nuclear submarine that sank in 2000 after an accident.
For Russia it was important at the time that the 118 victims were recovered. The wreck was eventually removed from the Barents Sea with expertise from a consortium of Dutch companies. 115 of the 118 victims were thus salvaged.
"It was a hearty conversation," Rutte said after the weekly meeting of the Dutch Cabinet. "I believe that the comparison with the Kursk resonated with the Russian president." Putin and Rutte spoke with each other during the ASEM Summit in Milan.

Putin reiterated that he wants to make full access to the disaster site possible "That's what he said before," Rutte qualified that commitment.


BBM


Oops! That's comparison with a very nasty twist.... I wonder if Rutte (who holds a degree in History) was aware that at the time of the accident with the Kursk, Putin was away on a vacation and recieved ample criticism for not returning to his post?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_submarine_Kursk_(K-141)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, though immediately informed of the tragedy, was told by the navy that they had the situation under control and rescue was imminent. He waited five days before he ended his holiday at a presidential resort in subtropical Sochi on the Black Sea. Only four months into his tenure as President, the public and media were extremely critical of Putin's decision to remain at a seaside resort, and his highly favourable ratings dropped dramatically.[17] The President's response appeared callous and the government's actions looked incompetent.[18] A year later he said, "I probably should have returned to Moscow, but nothing would have changed. I had the same level of communication both in Sochi and in Moscow, but from a PR point of view I could have demonstrated some special eagerness to return

 

[ZaZara]

GERMAN INTELLIGENCE CLAIMS PRO-RUSSIAN SEPARATISTS DOWNED MH17

Der Spiegel reports:
http://www.spiegel.de/international...-a-997972.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer

Germany's foreign intelligence agency says its review of the crash of a Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 in Ukrainian has concluded it was brought down by a missile fired by pro-Russian separatists near Donetsk.

After completing a detailed analysis, Germany's foreign intelligence service, the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), has concluded that pro-Russian rebels were responsible for the crash of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 on July 19 in eastern Ukraine while on route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

The BND has intelligence indicating that pro-Russian separatists captured a BUK air defense missile system at a Ukrainian military base and fired a missile on July 17 that exploded in direct proximity to the Malaysian aircraft, which had been carrying 298 people.

BND's Schindler says his agency has come up with unambiguous findings. One is that Ukrainian photos have been manipulated and that there are details indicating this. He also told the panel that Russian claims the missile had been fired by Ukrainian soldiers and that a Ukrainian fighter jet had been flying close to the passenger jet were false.

"It was pro-Russian separatists," Schindler said of the crash, which involved the deaths of four German citizens. A spokesman for the German Federal Prosecutor's Office told SPIEGEL that an investigation has been opened into unknown perpetrators because of the possibility that the crash had been a war crime.


BBM


Four German citizens were among the passengers of flight MH17

 

[ZaZara]

DUTCH MP DEMANDS ANSWERS FROM GOVERNMENT ON SATELLITE IMAGES OF MH17


Within minutes of the news that German intelligence has information proving that MH17 was downed by pro-Russian separatists, the first Dutch MP (Pieter Omtzigt, CDA) has put his claim on Twitter.
Last week, much to the dismay of the Parliament, the Dutch Governement kept silent during the debate about the about the cause of the disaster MH17 flight, even though they are in possession of American radar and satellite images.

Pieter Omtzigt ‏@PieterOmtzigt

Duitse Parlementariërs krijgen satelliet bewijs MH17 te zien. NL regering weet niet of het die wel heeft....
CDA wil snel opheldering van Opstelten over satellietbewijs MH17. In debat kon hij niets zeggen. Daarom snel nieuw debat en vragen
CDA en D66 willen hoorzitting over satellietbeelden MH17 met internationale experts. Welke beelden zijn er en welke bewijs bevatten ze?

Translation:

German MPs get to see satellite evidence MH17. NL government'm not sure if they even have it ....
CDA wants clarification of Opstelten about satellite evidence MH17. In the debate, he could not say anything. Therefore new debate and questions quickly
CDA and D66 want hearing about satellite images MH17 with international experts. What images are there and what evidence do they contain?

BBM

This is outrageous!
Knowing the current Dutch Government, they may well continue to insist that they are not sure if they even know.
As if they live on an island surrounded by a glass curtain. NOT!




:stormingmad:

 

[ZaZara]

BOTH UKRAINE AND RUSSIA ALLEDGEDLY LIED ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF DOWNING MH17

Max Seddon reports:

max seddon @maxseddon · 15 min.

German intelligence says the rebels shot down MH17 with a Buk they captured from Ukraine, and no help from Russia. http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan

Ukraine always denied it, but Kurginyan went to Donetsk & said the rebels stole a Buk - a few days before MH17 fell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxVZvh9YScU&feature=youtu.be …

German intelligence also says both Ukraine and Russia have lied about the circumstances of the MH17 shooting. http://m.spiegel.de/international/europe/a-997972.html …

Working link for the Kurginyan video where he talks about the rebels seizing a Ukrainian Buk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KYcql7sfpk …


[video=youtu;0KYcql7sfpk]http://youtu.be/0KYcql7sfpk[/video]


BBM


"Ultranationalist Sergei Kurginyan bragged that an electronics specialist was sent to repair a Buk anti-aircraft system for the separatists in Donetsk."
http://www.interpretermag.com/russia-this-week-lurid-anti-ukraine-propaganda-broadcast-on-state-tv/


The BUK being stolen from Ukraine is now heatedly discussed on twitter, along the lines of Kurginyan is a blowhard so I don't know how much we should believe.
But BUKS can and should be counted, so as a theory it seems worth the while.

 

[ZaZara]

COUSIN TRAVELS TO LOCATION OF CRASH MH17


NOS-Nieuws reports:
http://nos.nl/artikel/711724-nabestaande-op-rampplek-mh17.html


A Dutch relative a victim of of flight MH17 has traveled on his own to the disaster area in eastern Ukraine. Robby Oehlers went looking on his own for traces of his cousin Daisy Oehlers, who still has not been identified. She was traveling with her boyfriend Bryce Frederiksz aboard the unit of Malaysia Airlines, which was shot down on 17 July.

"This is incredible," was the reaction of the 44-year old Oehlers as he arrives at the disaster area. It's much worse than he had imagined. "There are no more bodies now . But can you imagine that you are happy to go on a holiday and then this is how it ends? This is just almost surreal."

Oehlers' cousin Daisy (20) was with her boyfriend Bryce (23) on their way to Bali for a break. Particularly to recover a bit after the death of Daisy's mother in April this year. They had started living together since a couple of weeks at the home of the parents of Bryce.





Three months after the disaster, there is still no sign of Daisy. Of Bryce only a foot was found. The family is angry and frustrated that it all takes so long. After the search by Dutch police in early August, the investigation in the field was halted for weeks. Only last week, searches were done for one day.

The family wonders how it is possible that journalists are be able to work in the area but that it would be too dangerous for investigators. Robby Oehlers, father of three children, and a musician in everyday life, decides that something must be done and takes matters into his own hands.

Through the grapevine, he made contact with the rebels in Donetsk and he explains who he is and what he wants. The rebels react quickly and positively: Oehlers is welcome and they will help him achieve his goal. That commitment, however, they failed to keep, says Oehlers.

Although the Dutch authorities try to dissuade him, Oehlers steps on the plane to Ukraine on Friday morning. Once arrived at the crash site, he understands their concerns. "They said it was dangerous. And it really is indeed." In the background rocket attacks are heard and in the distance the smoke clouds can be seen.

Oehlers now understands why the Dutch investigation has been suspended. "That's common sense. An officer from The Netherlands who comes here to pick up things from the people who died here - that is a mission - but he has children too and a family and he runs a risk too, so I understand it very well." He adds: "It's a sad thing to say, but there is simply no investigation to be done now."

While Oehlers is walking among the wreckage and personal belongings, he sees a small light blue suitcase. "That's her, I think. Hopefully." Bryce's mother had told him before he left what luggage Daisy and Bryce had with them. Oehlers is emotional and in doubt: will he take the suitcase with him now or come bak for it tomorrow? Then he decides to take a photo of the case first and whatsapp it to the relatives in The Netherlands, with the question whether it is indeed the case of his niece.

"Ideally, I would prefer to sit here in a tent and quietly go looking. But that is an impossible task. The area is far too big."


BBM


Video http://nos.nl/video/711726-nabestaande-op-rampplek-dit-is-ongelooflijk.html

 

[ZaZara]

DUTCH POLICE TO RETRIEVE SUITCASES MH17 FROM UKRANIAN VILLAGE


RTL-Nieuws reports:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/agenten-halen-mh17-koffers-op-dorp

Translation:


If safety allows it, Dutch policemen will go tomorrow to a village in the disaster area of flight MH17 to retrieve suitcases of the passengers.
The items were collected by to the locals. The Department of Security and Justice has confirmed this.
For safety reasons, the Department will not say which village it is. It is not the first time that residents of the disaster area are collecting belongings of the victims and handing them to The Netherlands.
"Last week, our people have been in the field to search for property, but we also went to pick up items in two places," a spokesman for the Department said. He adds:"From the beginning, we have called upon the people to hand over possessions if they have them. It is quite nice that this is happening."

From the disaster area, the suitcases will be transported to the Ukrainian city of Kharkov. There, they will first be examined. It is not yet known when belongings will be brought to The Netherlands.
The search on the crash site itself was cancelled last week because it was too unsafe. Despite a ceasefire, fighting is still ongoing in the area occasionally. The repatriation mission decides on a daily basis if there is another possibility to go into the disaster area

In the disaster of flight MH17 298 passengers and crew were killed. Meanwhile 272 of them have been identified, including 175 of the 196 Dutch victims.


BBM

 

[SouthAussie]

Ukraine disputes report that rebels downed MH17 with captured missile.

"In this connection the command of the Ukrainian Air Force is authorized to state that reports that a Buk M1 surface-to-air missile system had been captured from a Ukrainian military unit are not true," says a statement posted on the Ukrainian Defense Ministry's Web site on Monday.

http://www.ukrainianjournal.com/index.php?w=article&id=19367

 

[ZaZara]

Ukraine disputes report that rebels downed MH17 with captured missile.

"In this connection the command of the Ukrainian Air Force is authorized to state that reports that a Buk M1 surface-to-air missile system had been captured from a Ukrainian military unit are not true," says a statement posted on the Ukrainian Defense Ministry's Web site on Monday.

http://www.ukrainianjournal.com/index.php?w=article&id=19367

Thanks, Aussie! There is some confusion about the alledged theft of the BUK. I understand that this may not have been presented as a fact but as a possible scenario - unclear at what stage of the investigation - but somehow this found it's way to the surface as a fact. Brown Moses from Bellingcat, who traced the journey of the Russian BUK from Russia through Eastern Ukraine and back immediately protested and stuck to his story.

I hope to find some more sources that confirm this, but there is a lot of confusion here about the role and the silence of the Dutch government, and anger too.

One thing that really strikes me is the difference between the Australian Government and the Dutch Government. IME Australians are not afraid of words.
Whether it is Tony Abbott who wants to shirtfront Putin, or Julie Bishop's condolence speech on the passing of Gough Whitlam - http://foreignminister.gov.au/speeches/Pages/2014/jb_sp_141021.aspx - to me this feels as if Australians allow themselves more freedom of expression, more emotion, more personality.
Unfortunately, the current Dutch gov't shows little awareness of the bigger picture and sticks to bureaucratic tape. While the world was (is) watching, our PM did noit even offer an English translation of his speeches on the Government's website. And those speeches weren't even that good, according to a certain translator (me).

Anyway, the Dutch Cabinet and the coalition partners VVD and PvdA have declined a debate about the findings and conclusions of the Germans, so officially, the Parliament of the country that is leading the investigation knows less about the facts than their German neighbours.


:notgood:

 

[SouthAussie]

I appreciate your translations, Zazara. Without them it would be difficult to know what the Dutch govt is saying, and not saying, about MH17 - and the investigation is naturally of interest to us.

I see that Prime Minister Rutte is coming to Australia (as well as visiting Malaysia) in two weeks, to discuss the investigation.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...ia-over-disaster/story-fnizu68q-1227096739527


We have been getting media reports about the German theories and the Ukraine denials. Our govt is still pretty focused on Putin, both the incumbent party and the opposition, and I don’t think he will receive a particularly warm welcome when he comes here next month.

THREE out of five Australians are in favour of Tony Abbott confronting Russian President Vladimir Putin over the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 when he visits Australia next month.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...096680745?nk=e65c46ebe6680877e693a0bb3a844775

 

[ZaZara]

MH17: TIME FOR A PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY?


Pieter Klein is Deputy Editor of RTL-Nieuws.
RTL-Nieuws and their reporters continue to do outstanding investigative work on MH17 and unearth several essential facts.
Pieter Klein shares his views in a blog on the official site of RTL-Nieuws

http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/columns/column/pieter-klein/mh17-tijd-voor-een-parlementaire-enquete

Translation:


Let me ungracefully get straight to the point: enough is really enough.
The great silence of the Rutte administration about the perpetrators - the guilty and the way it happened - behind the downing of MH17 can and may no longer continue. That is to say, of course, it is perfectly possible, everything is possible, but by and by this is becoming unbearable, implausible, and morally indefensible with regard to the surviving relatives and society as a whole.

Der Spiegel reported Sunday how matters stand according to the German intelligence service BND. The attack on disaster flight MH17 is the work of pro-Russian separatists, who would have stolen a Buk-launcher in Ukraine, and with that they shot the plane out of the sky.
So no Russians, no Ukrainian fighter; all rubbish, deception, smoke curtains - fodder for conspiracy theorists.
The BND comes to this firm conclusion on the basis of photographs and satellite images, and informed the German Parliament.
Dutch surviving relatives know nothing, nor does our parliament. Nobody knows anything.

"Officially we supposedly know only what the Safety Board has been established."

I had planned not to waste any words on the complacent vanity of [former Dutch FM] Frans Timmermans, and his statements about the 'oxygen mask'. And about the 'rocket'.
But do you remember how recently at his weekly press conference Dutch PM Mark Rutte squirmed in all directions to distance himself - from that rocket? That thing about the missile can now no longer be said aloud. Officially we supposedly know only what the Safety Board has determined, namely that the MH17 was pierced from outside by "a large number of objects". The government does not want to say anything further, in order not to endanger the three original priorities: repatriation of victims, investigation into the circumstances, criminal investigation.

One might say that this has to be accepted, but please read the file again, and you see where the problem lies: lookup officiëlebekendmakingen.nl, search: parliamentary documents, enter Kamernummer 33 997. Already in the first official letter on July 24, it is written: "the outrage is all the greater because the evidence is piling up that the plane was shot down with a missile." Shortly before that, on July 21, PM Rutte stated even more explicitly, that our security services "have strong evidence regarding the circumstances of the disaster" (TK, 33 977, no. 11). That was then.

Last Friday it was announced that meanwhile 287 of the 298 victims have been identified. We know that The Netherlands want to return to the crash site, but in all honesty and fairness none of the protagonists has any hope that remains might still be found. There was a well-founded, forensic reason for a search period of three weeks.
This is the bitter reality; we are approaching the moment troo when the news will break that not every surviving family member will get his or her loved one back. Therefore, the most valid reason for the silence of the government about the circumstances and perpetrators has collapsed.

"We are witnessing a familiar and dangerous political phenomenon: unpleasant facts are brushed aside because they poorly relate to official readings."

There are reasons to be concerned, suspicious and critical about the government. Not only because the act of terror that has hit our society is huge. Also because - despite all the efforts and good intentions - mistakes are made, and communication about these mistakes is systematically evasive. About the scale of the (aborted) Dutch search mission and what part of the area really was searched. About the fact that The Netherlands only found out when the mission was halted that the State Emercency Service (SES) had recovered almost all the human remains in a decent manner immediately after the disaster - see what the commanders of the fire brigade told [our reporter] Jeroen Akkermans. The Netherlands have been leaning too much on Kiev, and too much on the OSCE, and too late they became aware that the same SES might also salvage the remaining personal belongings

We are witnessing a familiar and dangerous political phenomenon; unpleasant facts are brushed away because they poorly relate to official readings. I do not know whether the political consultants and experts in crisis are aware of this, but - after fully understanding the complexity of this case - the discontent is growing in Parliament. If this continues, soon calls will be made for a parliamentary inquiry. And rightly so. Nobody wants to politicize the MH17 disaster and the handling of it, but the attitude of the government borders on provcation.

A special role is played by Mr Opstelten (Secretary of Security and Justice). Previously he said that openness about facts and culprits is "not our responsibility" (TK, 12, 33 997, no. Page 34.). Farcical nonsense, of course. The Research Council and the Public Prosecutor (OM) are indeed independent, and may under international laws and regulations determine what they make public and when. Of course, careful argumentation is in everyone's interest, but Opstelten thinks he has a license for fobbing off our parliament systematically - read this insult to the House again.

"It's time to enforce that the true story be told."

Since the unveiling of Der Spiegel the main question on the table is: what do our services know by now, and what - therefore- does our cabinet know? Does the AIVD of Secretary Plasterk possess the same material as the German BND, and have they reached the same conclusions? And what about the MIVD (Military Intelligence) of Defence Secretary Hennis? And, did they inform the Dutch Safety Board or the Prosecutor, whether or not through official reports? If the relevant (satellite) information is not known (yet) to our services, our investigators and our governments, somewhere a sick and horrendous act of non-performance is being delivered. If the powers that be do know how things stand, then it's time for a revison of the facades raised by the crisis communication.(*)

It is time that the entire Parliament stand their ground as the prime controller of power, and not lose themselves in politics with a small p: shyness and petty coalition interests.
It's time to enforce that the true story be told. At the very least, the essence of it.


BBM


(*) Crisis communication:
In The Netherlands, Crisis Communication is the official task of the National Coordinator for Counterterrorism and Security of the Department of Security and Justice:
https://www.nctv.nl/onderwerpen/crisisbeheersing/crisiscommunicatie/

Translation:

When the society is worried or threatens to disrupt, crisis communication is one of the most important tools to normalize the situation again. The government should explicitely take into consideration the sentiments of society during a crisis. The crisis as perceived by the public is the real crisis.


BBM

 

[ZaZara]

6 NEW IDENTIFICATIONS


Trouw reports:
http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/31523/Vli...4/284-slachtoffers-MH17-geidentificeerd.dhtml

This week, six victims of the disaster flight MH17 have been identified. Of these, five are Dutch nationals and one has another nationality. In total, the identity of 284 victims has been established, according to the Department of Security and Justice today.

This means that more than three months after the disaster, 14 victims have yet to obtain a name.
At the crash 298 people were killed, of whom 196 were Dutch. Of them, 185 people have been identified.

BBM

11 Dutch nationals and 3 victims from other countries are still waiting to be identified, if ever.



:rose:

 

[SouthAussie]

Today marks 100 days since the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine.

The personal stories of those aboard MH17 touched a chord with all Australians, but perhaps none more so than the three bright and beautiful faces of the Maslin children.

It is the newspaper's hope that, together, we can create a substantial and lasting foundation to honour the memory of Mo, 12, Evie, 10 and Otis 8, and the bravery of their parents Anthony (Maz) Maslin and Marite (Rin) Norris.

Maz and Rin want the foundation to focus on helping children with dyslexia and related learning difficulties through early childhood intervention.

"Otis' diagnosis from the Dyslexia Speld Foundation of WA was waiting for us in the mail when we arrived home after our world ended," Maz and Rin said.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/the-mo-evie-and-otis-maslin-foundation-20141024-11b3rj.html

 

[ZaZara]

PHOTOGRAPHER PIERRE CROM FINDS HUMAN REMAINS AT CRASH SITE


De Telegraaf reports:
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/23247158/__Nog_steeds_resten_op_rampplek__.html


Translation:



Photographer: still body parts on disaster site MH17

DONETSK - At the crash site of flight MH17 body parts are still to be found. ANP photographer Pierre Crom has seen this, he reported on Saturday from Ukraine.

Crom found the human remains on a burned piece of field. Shortly after the disaster, a part of the wreckage was towed away there and more bodies were then found.
"I have seen bones, some were even about 20 cm long. And a piece of skull and hair, " says Crom.


BBM

Warning: graphic content:

Pierre Crom @PierreCrom ·
Hairs on the #mh17 crash site in Grabovo. #donbass #ukraine #russia #photojournalism http://instagram.com/p/ulZEgUNVgj/


BBM


Maddening. O how maddening! Every relative or reporter is able to reach the location of the crash and walk around for hours and hours, but somehow nothing can be done.
The Dutch Police who went searching were volunteers! Even volunteers were stopped!
What are we paying this government for? (-> nothing)


:blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :stormingmad:

 

[imjustagirl123]

SouthAussie- That picture of those 3 beautiful happy kids is heart wrenching, just awful!!!!