GUILTY Netherlands - Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 #4

[gregjrichards]

TEAM TO RE-ENTER CRASH SITE
ALL MALAYSIAN VICTIMS IDENTIFIED


Malaysian New Straits Times reports:
http://www.nst.com.my/node/48906?m=1?d=1

KOTA BARU: TRANSPORT Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai said investigators will re-enter the crash site of the Malaysia Airlines MH17 in eastern Ukraine in the next one or two weeks even though it is winter. He said the Ukrainian and separatist forces had agreed on a ceasefire to enable the investigating team to re-enter the site.

Liow said priority would be given to collecting evidence and wreckage parts as they were important in the probe.
“The wreckage will be sent to the Netherlands first, and not Malaysia, as the investigation into the crash is chaired by the Dutch.
“If possible, we want to bring back all the parts for it (the plane) to be reconstructed so that investigators can determine where and how it was hit.”

He said 289 of the passengers on the flight had been identified, including all 44 Malaysians.

BBM

I'm glad the Dutch are in control of the investigation I do not trust the Malaysian Government one bit. I am pleased all victims have been identified and the remains of the victims can be given proper burials. I cannot imagine how the families of everyone on board are coping it is a horrific way for your loved one to die.

 

[ZaZara]

I'm glad the Dutch are in control of the investigation I do not trust the Malaysian Government one bit. I am pleased all victims have been identified and the remains of the victims can be given proper burials. I cannot imagine how the families of everyone on board are coping it is a horrific way for your loved one to die.

Unfortunately, not all passengers have been identified yet. There were 298 passengers, and 9 are still unidentified.
Earlier, it was mentioned that 9 passengers were unaccounted for and that no DNA of them was found.

From the recent interview with Frank van de Goot, Dutch NFI:

1. Of nine passengers of MH17 no DNA has been found yet, why is that?
"There are two possibilities: Either the victims are still there, since there are large areas that have not been searched yet, or the remains of the victims are too damaged for extracting DNA. The airplane came down from a great height, causing a lot of damage. But heat, especially heat is your main opponent. Heat is disastrous for DNA testing. Then no DNA profile can be recovered."

BBM

Thank you for your kind words about the Dutch Government.
Many Dutch, including me, are quite fed up with the current Government, for various reasons, and many of them unrelated to the aftermath of the crash.
IMHO in the case of MH17, the various teams do well what they are doing. The frustration lies more with what they are NOT doing and what the Government fails to do.
But you may well be right and things could be worse.

 

[ZaZara]

MORE HUMAN REMAINS MH17 FOUND

De Telegraaf reports:
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/23286665/__Weer_stoffelijke_resten_MH17_gevonden__.html


Translation:


THE HAGUE - This Tuesday further mortal remains and personal belongings of the victims of the disaster on 17 July have been salvaged at the crash site of flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine. The Department of Security and Justice announced this Tuesday.

Last week the Dutch together with the OSCE and the local emergency service SES returned to the area. Tuesday they managed to do that again.

The remains and personal belongings will be brought to Kharkiv by the experts. An initial forensic examination will be performed there, after which the remains and belongings shall be brought to The Netherlands. The same ceremony in the repatriation of the remains will be observed as in previous repatriations. The personal belongings are transferred to the next of kin after examination in The Netherlands.

During the search on Tuesday, shots were still being fired in the area. The security conditions in the region remain fragile, according to the Department of Security and Justice. Return of the entire mission to the crash site is therefore not on the agenda.

In the disaster with the airplane from Malaysia Airlines on July 17, all 298 passengers were killed, including 196 Dutch. The aircraft was probably shot down by a missile from Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine.


BBM

:rose:

 

[ZaZara]

DUTCH EXPERTS ARRIVE IN DONETSK TO REMOVE MH17 WRECKAGE

RIA Novosti reports:
http://en.ria.ru/world/20141104/195...rrive-in-Donetsk-to-Remove-MH17-Wreckage.html


DONETSK, November 4 (RIA Novosti) - A team of Dutch experts has arrived in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, to conduct preparations for removing the wreckage of the Malaysian Boeing flight MH17 which has crashed on July 17, Donetsk Deputy Prime Minister told RIA Novosti Tuesday.

"Three Dutch experts have arrived to remove the wreckage of Boeing, which still remains near the town of Torez. The first consultation with the representatives of our Emergencies Ministry, Ministry of Transport and police was held today. The experts also visited the crash site," Andrei Purgin, who also takes part in the talks, said, adding that the reasons of the crash are not being discussed.

Purgin added that currently the experts are inventorying and measuring the wreckage to find out what kind of transport is needed to take them away from the crash site. They will also determine the route. "Likely [they will take the wreckage] to Netherlands via Kharkov," Purgin said.


BBM

 

[ZaZara]

INVESTIGATORS MH17 PROTECTED BY SEPARATISTS


Trouw reports:
http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/31523/Vli...derzoekers-MH17-beveiligd-door-rebellen.dhtml

Translation:


Dutch investigators at the crash site of flight MH17 in Eastern Ukraine are being protected by the rebels in that area. "We guarantee their safety," said Deputy Prime Minister Andrej Poergin of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk yesterday to the Russian news agency Interfax.

"We will do everything to make the work easier for them," says Poergin. The Dutch Department of Security and Justice announced yesterday that once again human remains and personal belongings of the victims were salvaged. Debris of the aircraft can only removed in about one or two weeks, according Poergin, as no transport is possible until then.


BBM


:bodyguard: :bodyguard: :bodyguard: :bodyguard: :bodyguard:

 

[ZaZara]

NEGOTIATIONS IN EASTERN UKRAINE IN FULL SWING


RTL-Nieuws reports:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/buitenland/onderhandelingen-over-berging-wrakstukken-mh17-volle-gang

Translation:

In eastern Ukraine negotiations are ongoing about the recovery of the wreckage of MH17.

Ukraine, the OSCE and pro-Russian rebels negotiate access to the crash site, which is now controlled by the rebels. The Dutch are also in the area, but they are not officially involved in the negotiations.

If an agreement is reached, the debris of the aircraft will be taken out of the disaster area for further investigation.


BBM


:discuss: :discuss: :discuss: :innocent:

 

[ZaZara]

REMAINS OF VICTIMS WILL ARRIVE AT EINDHOVEN AIRPORT ON SATURDAY


RTL-Nieuws reports:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/zaterdag-weer-vliegtuig-met-slachtoffers-mh17

Translation:

Saturday around 16:00 hrs another Dutch military transport aircraft with victims of the disaster flight MH17 will land at Eindhoven Air Base.

The victims will be received with the same ceremony as on the earlier occasions. Next of kin maybe present at the ceremony.

The human remains will then transported to the Korporaal van Oudheusden Kazerne in Hilversum under police escort.


BBM



16.00 hrs is local time, i.e. GMT +1

 

[ZaZara]

AGAIN HUMAN REMAINS SALVAGED


RTL-Nieuws reports:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/opnieuw-stoffelijke-resten-slachtoffers-mh17-geborgen

Translation


Once again, remains of MH17 victims have been salvaged in eastern Ukraine. It is the third time in a week that the Dutch repatriation mission led by the local disaster relief SES and the OSCE managed to work in the area.

On the so-called 'burned sites' of the disaster area signs have been placed to mark the locations so that they will be also clearly recognizable in the winter. On these 'burned sites' parts of the plane from Malaysia Airlines burned out. The area measures several hundred square meters.

BBM


:rose:

 

[SouthAussie]

Thank goodness the investigators are back in there, and bringing more remains and personal effects out. I truly hope that every family can know that their family member(s) has been located and repatriated.

 

[SouthAussie]

PM Rutte will arrive in our nation's capital this morning. He was in Malaysia yesterday, and has flown with Malaysia Airlines on his travels.

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte will jet in to Canberra on Thursday morning for two days of meetings with Governor-General Peter Cosgrove, Prime Minister Tony Abbott and cabinet ministers and to meet Australian police, army and foreign affairs officials involved in the search for the remains of the victims of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...nes-for-two-days-of-work-20141105-11hcn6.html

Finalising the MH17 disaster investigation will be on the agenda for talks between Prime Minister Tony Abbott and his Dutch counterpart Mark Rutte.

Mr Rutte shares Mr Abbott's concerns that Russia is not doing enough to support the investigation into the July deaths of 298 people, including 196 Dutch nationals and 38 Australians.

Mr Rutte visited Malaysia on his way to Australia, taking flight MH19 - the call sign which replaced MH17.

Dutch media have reported he will meet the families of MH17 victims.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/2014/11/06/mh17-disaster-on-dutch-pm-s-agenda.html

 

[ZaZara]

'UKRAINE OPPOSED TO MALAYSIA JOINING INVESTIGATION TEAM MH17'


RTL-Nieuws reports:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/politiek/oekraine-wil-maleisie-niet-onderzoeksteam-mh17


Ukraine has problems with Malaysia joining the investigation team from the MH17. Multiple sources have reported this to RTL Nieuws. Malaysia is being kept informed of all developments, but is not a full member.

The relationship between Ukraine and Malaysia became chilled after Malaysia had negotiated directly with pro-Russian rebels, for instance about the black boxes of the MH17.

Today Dutch Prime Minister Rutte is visiting his Malaysian colleague Najib Razak. The Malaysian PM expects that his country will become part of the investigative team within a few days. In Kuala Lumpur Rutte said that it makes "perfect sense" that Malaysia is "fully involved" in the investigation. Last Friday Rutte said hat there are "confidentiality reasons" why Malaysia is not a full member.

The Joint Investigation Team is a special team that investigates the perpetrators of the disaster with the MH17. In addition to The Netherlands, Belgium, Ukraine and Australia are formal members of the team.

At the time, Malaysia was added as a participant but did not become a full member due to the differences in the legal systems. For instance in Malaysia exists the death penalty. The intention was to have Malaysia join at a later moment, but now Ukraine is having problems with that.

PM Rutte is currently on his way to Australia to discuss the aftermath of the MH17.

BBM


Dutch PM Rutte flew to Malaysia with Malaysian Airlines.

 

[ZaZara]

'A COALITION OF THE GRIEVING'
SHORT SPEECH BY DUTCH PM RUTTE IN MALAYSIA


Dutch PM's office:
http://www.government.nl/government...by-prime-minister-mark-rutte-in-maleisie.html


I am here today because of the MH17 air disaster. This tragedy has left deep wounds in the societies affected. Above all, it has devastated the loved ones of the victims. They must now live every day with the pain of their loss. I would like to take this opportunity to express my appreciation once again for the excellent cooperation we experienced with Malaysia in the aftermath of the disaster.

Together with Australia, which was also hit hard by the disaster, Malaysia and the Netherlands form a 'coalition of the grieving'.

All three countries are working closely to achieve our common goals: repatriating any further human remains and personal belongings, investigating the facts of the disaster and conducting a criminal investigation. Conditions on the ground remain difficult. But we remain determined to achieve these goals. Last week conditions allowed a small team to visit the crash site. They found remains of victims, which will be transferred to the Netherlands following the usual ceremonial protocol. We will continue to take every opportunity to go to the site.

Prime Minister Najib has demonstrated his personal commitment to this issue time and again - as we saw for ourselves when he visited the Netherlands in July. Now it is essential that we continue working together closely, and that we keep this subject high on the international agenda.

Following the MH370 tragedy, the downing of flight MH17 was Malaysia's second air disaster in a short space of time. As a result, a large number of next of kin have been living for many months in an agony of uncertainty about what exactly happened to their loved ones.

A Dutch company is involved in the search for the missing MH370 aircraft. I truly hope that the search will eventually provide the next of kin with the certainty they need.


:rose:

 

[ZaZara]

Thank goodness the investigators are back in there, and bringing more remains and personal effects out. I truly hope that every family can know that their family member(s) has been located and repatriated.

Well you may thank goodness, SouthAussie :wink: but we both remember that the list of visitors to the area was getting longer and longer, and people got angry...... :whip::whip:
We may never know how this miracle happened, but I am relieved and glad too that they are searching once again. They may not be able to find everybody, but at least they are trying.

Keep the Dutch PM on his toes, Australia! No need at all to go soft on him.


:sumo:

 

[SouthAussie]

DUTCH Prime Minister Mark Rutte has warned against politicising the investigation into the Flight MH17 tragedy, as Tony Abbott pledged to personally press Vladimir Putin at “the earliest possible moment”.

Mr Rutte, speaking this afternoon alongside Mr Abbott in Canberra, said his government would do everything it could to find and prosecute those responsible for the downing of the aircraft.

However Mr Rutte said it was up to investigators to “connect the dots”.

Mr Abbott said he would have “a conversation” with Mr Putin about the tragedy “one way or another” over the next fortnight, either at the APEC summit in Beijing or the G20 in Brisbane.

“He won’t be able to avoid the conversation, so one way or another we’re going to have the bilateral — whether it’s in the corridor or in a more formal setting.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-...ch-pm-mark-rutte/story-fno88it0-1227114923367

Hmmm .... I'm not sure that PM Rutte and PM Abbott are seeing completely eye to eye on things. :thinking:

 

[ZaZara]

OPERATION TO BRING WRECKAGE MH17 TO THE NETHERLANDS STARTS NEXT WEEK


RTL-Nieuws reports:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/berging-wrak-mh17-begint-binnen-enkele-dagen

Translation:

The Dutch Safety Board (OVV) will start with salvaging the wreck of MH17 in the coming days. The wreckage will be transferred to The Netherlands, where a reconstruction of the aircraft will be made.

OVV president Tjibbe Joustra has said this to RTL News.

The plans for the salvage operations are finished and the technical preparation has begun, according to Joustra. The expectation is that within a few days the OVV can begin to collect the wreckage of the crashed plane.

For a long time it was too dangerous for Dutch investigation teams to go to the crash site. There was heavy fighting in the area between the Ukrainian army and pro-Russian rebels.

But in recent weeks, negotiations were succesfully concluded and the situation seems to be a little quieter. For example, a Dutch team visited the crash site in late October and was able to salvage human remains.

BBM


Rudy Bouma, reporter for Nieuwsuur confirms:

rudy bouma ‏@rudybouma

Volgende week berging wrakstukken rampplek #mh17 bevestigt Oekraiense SES.

Translation:

Next week salvage wreckage disaster area MH17 confirms Ukranian SES


BBM

 

[ZaZara]

MORE HUMAN REMAINS SALVAGED


RTL-Nieuws reports:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/weer-resten-mh17-slachtoffers-geborgen

Translation


Dutch experts in Eastern Ukraine have again salvaged remains of the victims of Flight MH17 today.
The remains were found between the debris of the aircraft, and will be transferred to Kharkiv.


BBM


Let's hope that the findings of recent days help to identify the last 9 passengers of whom no trace has been recovered so far.


:rose:

 

[SouthAussie]

I heard on our late night news last night, PM Rutte saying that Putin must assist in keeping the fighting away so that the crash zone can be cleared. So maybe by ‘not getting political’ he meant that trouble between Russia and Ukraine must not interfere with the recovery and investigation.

And (my thoughts) perhaps the very nearness of the G20 summit is helping to give Putin the incentive to keep the fighting away. He will be on a world stage at the G20, and would like to be well received, I would think.

Either way, I am very glad that the investigators are being given the access they require, and that more remains are being found and the wreckage will soon be removed as well.

 

[SouthAussie]

The board will be commissioning a team to recover wreckage and take it back to the Netherlands.

A spokeswoman for the board could not comment to the ABC about any security arrangements to enter the site, which is in rebel-held areas.

She said it was not yet known how long the operation will take.

"The Dutch Safety Board has commissioned the recovery and transportation to the Netherlands of wreckage from flight MH17," the board said in a statement, without saying who had been employed.

"As part of the investigation... the Dutch Safety Board intends to reconstruct a section of the aircraft."

Asked if the contractors would be local, a safety board official said: "Yes, probably. From nearby."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-...employ-contractors-to-collect-wreckge/5873384


I wonder if some rebel-contractors will be used.

 

[SouthAussie]

Mr Rutte said he had spoken to Russian President Vladimir Putin in Italy two weeks ago.

'I used the opportunity again to tell him that I expect him to do everything he can to put pressure on the separatists to allow unhindered access to the crash site,' Mr Rutte said.


'Like Prime Minister Rutte, what I'll be saying to him is that Australia expects full Russian co-operation with the investigation,' Mr Abbott said.

'We don't want the investigation ridiculed. We don't want the investigation compromised or sabotaged. We want full co-operation with the investigation.

'We owe it to our dead to secure justice and Russia as a member of the international community owes it to the world, owes it to humanity, to ensure that justice is done.'

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/11/06/more-mh17-remains-found-in-ukraine.html

 

[ZaZara]

DONETSK PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC AUTHORITIES TO HELP TRANSPORT MH17 PLANE WRECKAGE TO KHARKIV


ITAR-TASS reports:
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/758421

DONETSK, November 6 /TASS/. The leadership of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) has reached a preliminary agreement with the Netherlands to transport the wreckage of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing that crashed near Donetsk on July 17 to Kharkiv. The OSCE is going to act as mediator, a DPR official told TASS on Thursday.

(..)

“Today, we have held talks involving the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Dutch experts and representatives of the Emergencies Ministry, the Interior Ministry and the Transport Ministry of the Donetsk People’s Republic. A preliminary agreement was reached to take the debris out on November 7,” Ella Karakut, a spokesperson for the DPR’s Transport Ministry, said adding the republic’s Interior Ministry would ensure the cargo’s safe transportation. The Emergencies Ministry will clear the territory where the plane fragments are lying from mines while the Transport Ministry will provide five railroad cars.

“The Dutch will do the loading. The OSCE acting as intermediary will accompany the cargo to the final destination. We, for our part, have taken a commitment to deliver the debris to Kharkiv,” Karakut said.


BBM


Things are moving.... It took a long time coming, but the days of ^ :deadhorse: are gone at last.