New Airline Rules

[Trino]

Here's a new twist. The Nigerian man may NOT have had a passport.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_says_at_l.html

 

[Sophie]

Trino, I'm reading that his visa to the US started in 2008 and ended in 2010. Surely the withdrawal of this was at the very least indicated?

 

[Sophie]

Here's a new twist. The Nigerian man may NOT have had a passport.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_says_at_l.html

Trino, just watching the BBC's and Sky's (Our Fox) digital new channels and they are talking to various people who believe that, in Nigeria, this guy's family's prominence and his personal wealth could easily have meant that airport staff would have viewed looking at his passport in the same way as asking President Obama or QE2 for a passport....

 

[Trino]

Trino, just watching the BBC's and Sky's (Our Fox) digital new channels and they are talking to various people who believe that, in Nigeria, this guy's family's prominence and his personal wealth could easily have meant that airport staff would have viewed looking at his passport in the same way as asking President Obama or QE2 for a passport....

I've been at the Amsterdam airport, and my opinion is that security is well-done there.

There are two problems, one being the security in Nigeria that allowed this man to travel at all. The second problem and IMO the MAJOR problem is that he was not on the US no fly list. Amsterdam accepted that the US info was valid.

 

[panthera]

In addition to no blankets or pillows on your lap for the last hour, I've heard that lap babies have to go in the overhead bin!!! :crazy:

Israel (since someone asked) has an 'in your seat for the last half hour of the flight' rule.

(bolding mine)

That makes more sense than the last hour. And does this "hour" include the time spent circling the airport, landing and taxiing to the gate? If not, that is a long time for somebody to "wait", especially children and the elderly. MOO

 

[Isabelle]

Passengers on all domestic and incoming flights now must remain in their seats with their seat belt fasten, have no access to the overhead bin, and cannot leave their seat within an hour before landing.

I guess I just don't get it. This is insane. Many elderly persons are incontinent. What if someone is ill? What about children that need to go to the bathroom?

If someone is going to blow up a plane, why do it the last hour? If I correctly recall, 911 wasn't during the last hour.

The problem is with Homeland Security, not passengers.

My husband and I are taking our 4 1/2 year old granddaughter to Orlando at the end of January. If she needs to potty at an inappropriate time, she'll be encouraged to do so on the seat of the plane. Let staff clean enough of these and they will change their minds. The health hazards alone are enough to make you head spin!

 

[Isabelle]

I would really like an explanation as to how this idiot got through security and on a US plane without being noticed! Heads should roll on this one.

 

[Gypsy Road]

The Nigerian perp had powder sewn in his underwear. Okay, Everyone. Off with your underwear when you fly.

Well afterall...that's how the whole take off your shoes through security business got started - because of that idiot shoe bomber guy!

 

[panthera]

My husband and I are taking our 4 1/2 year old granddaughter to Orlando at the end of January. If she needs to potty at an inappropriate time, she'll be encouraged to do so on the seat of the plane. Let staff clean enough of these and they will change their minds. The health hazards alone are enough to make you head spin!

It will only be the airline employees who have to suffer through cleaning up the mess, which will delay the outgoing flight that plane is scheduled for and so forth. The government may not even get the point. MOO

 

[Trino]

It will only be the airline employees who have to suffer through cleaning up the mess, which will delay the outgoing flight that plane is scheduled for and so forth. The government may not even get the point. MOO

Someone is going to challenge the bathroom policy. If it's a child, it could very well effect those in the seat next to the child - parents or no. I see a lawsuit over this. Can you imagine a child going to the bathroom on the seat next to you?

I'm traveling internationally in a few days but must first take a domestic flight to the coast. I'm really interested to see how this plays out.

 

[panthera]

Someone is going to challenge the bathroom policy. If it's a child, it could very well effect those in the seat next to the child - parents or no. I see a lawsuit over this. Can you imagine a child going to the bathroom on the seat next to you?

I'm traveling internationally in a few days but must first take a domestic flight to the coast. I'm really interested to see how this plays out.

Oh I definitely can see the civil rights lawsuits coming. There also could be a lot of "gray areas" such as a domestic flight which is supposed to be approximately an hour in duration (which under the new rule wouldn't even allow the passengers to leave their seats) but what happens if that same flight is delayed in take-off (sitting on the tarmac) after everyone has boarded (which would now exceed the "one hour" rule)??? :waitasec:

 

[jjenny]

I'm not a commercial pilot but I do fly commercially a decent amount - and I love flying and airplanes, so I do know a bit.

Blowing up a plane over the ocean doesn't give the terrorists the PR they are looking for.

There is a lot of open space in this country, especially near airports. Other than driving a plane into a building the thought of doing additional damage from falling debris is a bit of a long shot. Even on approach a plane will be covering a mile every 20 seconds, so I believe all the terrorist wants to do is make sure it happens over the US and it can be clearly seen to be an attack, not an accident or mechanical malfunction.

I don't for a second believe not being able to get off the seat in the last hour is going to stop a terrorist.
If someone manages to get a bomb on the plane, and that someone knows he couldn't use a restroom in the last hour, he'd just have to do it before that.
The only thing forbidding people to get up in the last hour is going to achieve is to inconvenience a lot of people for absolutely nothing, IMO.

 

[Trino]

More info is beginning to come out. The Nigerian says he was part of a larger plot. Oh, great. Just great.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/food-...flight-253-bomb-scare/story?id=9430057&page=2

"Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, told investigators he was part of a "larger plot" and that he believed there were other potential bombers set on similar missions on American aircraft, according to law enforcement officials."

 

[jjenny]

More info is beginning to come out. The Nigerian says he was part of a larger plot. Oh, great. Just great.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/food-...flight-253-bomb-scare/story?id=9430057&page=2

"Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, told investigators he was part of a "larger plot" and that he believed there were other potential bombers set on similar missions on American aircraft, according to law enforcement officials."

I wonder why he hasn't been declared an enemy combatant. If he knows anything, treating him as a criminal means he doesn't have to talk to police unless he wants to. Which isn't good in case he knows something.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

After all, the guy in question was sitting in his seat when he tried to light the bomb he had, right?

He was. But I believe I heard something today that said he was in the bathroom for 20 minutes prior to that, complaining of a "stomach ache".

From: http://detnews.com/article/20091227/METRO/912270320/Detroit-flight-terrorism-suspect-in-court-Monday The criminal complaint alleges Mutallab left his seat on the airplane to go to the bathroom for 20 minutes because of an upset stomach. When he returned, he sat down, covered himself with a blanket when, according to witnesses, a fire erupted from his pants and spread to the wall of the aircraft.

Not that I agree with these new rules. I'm all for doing what it takes to protect people, but this is just plain stupid, IMO. But anyway...

 

[BuzzieCat]

What would be the possible health implications of these x-ray machines if they came into greater use? Is there anything that can scan for weapons/explosives that is not an x-ray?

 

[Trino]

What would be the possible health implications of these x-ray machines if they came into greater use? Is there anything that can scan for weapons/explosives that is not an x-ray?

It is thought that, although they are x-rays, health implications are very minimal. Still...

 

[mywarmbluefleece]

It just got more interesting. Now, blankets and pillows are forbidden during the last hour of the flight. I wonder if HS has thought about the fact that both men and women in winter have long coats.

And, passengers can't have any items on their laps. This is ridiculous. What are passengers supposed to do - sit there like robots? I'm waiting for an uprising.

I understand these rules are for our safety and I am appreciative of them.

I have serious back problems and my dr. told me when I travel, I HAVE to have a pillow behind my back. I guess I'll roll up a towel but it just isn't the same. Why are blankets and pillows okay for the first segment of the flight?

 

[Gypsy Road]

You know since these new regulations were announced all I have been thinking about is #1 (urinating). Most people can hold that for a little while, but (and I apologize for even going here), but what if you have a bad case of diarrhea? Sometimes Mother Nature does not allow us to wait - especially if you happen to get sick suddenly. Embarrassing as this is for me to admit - my husband and I ate at a Hibachi restuarant last week about an hour from where we live - and well - let's just say IT hit me on the Interstate on the way back home, and if my DH hadn't have pulled off and got me to a bathroom when I told him to I would have pooped my britches right there on his leather seats. I'm not kidding. Trust me...I would have rather waited until I got home to my own potty (not a fan of public restrooms AT ALL), but there was no way. Had to go...and had to go then! I'm sure the flight attendents are going to have to make exceptions or they are going to have a big mess on their hands (so to speak).

 

[Trino]

I understand these rules are for our safety and I am appreciative of them.

I have serious back problems and my dr. told me when I travel, I HAVE to have a pillow behind my back. I guess I'll roll up a towel but it just isn't the same. Why are blankets and pillows okay for the first segment of the flight?

Because, IMO TSA hasn't clearly thought through the implications of this knee-jerk policy.

This policy goes beyond reason because not every traveler is a virile, healthy adult. IMO there are many physical limitations that weren't considered.

What about bathroom use for older travelers, children, pregnant women, persons with disabilities, someone who might become ill? Everyone has suffered from diarrhea at some point. What if this happens during the last hour of a flight? What if it happens to a child? (I'm betting it WILL happen to someone.) Will TSA detain and question these people?

People who suffer from osteo-arthritis or rheumatoid arthritis should not remain immobile for an hour. And, you mention your back problem and the necessity to use a pillow behind your back. What about someone with an injury that needs to keep a limb elevated?

AND, referencing no access to the overhead bin, what about the baggage under the seat? No one has mentioned this, so I assume passengers still have access to this.

Again, this is, obviously, a policy that has not been well-thought out.