New Book on JonBenet coming soon

[Eagle1]

Just as an aside, does anyone know what CG, boyfriend of AS looked like in 1996? And also CW, boyfriend of JD? I am curious to know.

Good question.

Anyone remember who AS was/is? Or CG? I think CW is probably Chris Wolf. Or maybe not, just hoping to help at least that much. Can't answer the question.

 

[Camper]

Just had a brainstorm, New thought alert

Known facts:

1. JonBenet mentioned to her little friend that she was going to have a 'Secret visit with Santa AFTER Christmas'

2. JonBenet was too much of a trooper to have just made that up.

3. No sign of forced entry.?

4. Barnhill saw someone approach the house 25th, looked like JAR, street is very very narrow, vision would have been very clear.

5. John was at the airport on 25th, readying plane for takeoff next day.

5-a. Patsy was probably running around getting stuff done afternoon of 25th.

WE don't know the exact time of Barnhills sighting do WE?


Now then point of wonderment, could JonBenet have given a house key to the 'person telling her about the Secret visit from Santa AFTER Christmas so that Santa could get in to see her? Six year old would fall for that in my opinion.

Did this unidentified person that Barnhill saw get into the house and stash himself away til evening?

The bigger question would be WHO could it possibly have been? I would suspect that JonBenet was told of this Secret visit from Santa by someone who attended the party of the 23rd. OR someone who was present at another function where there was a Santa present. Yes or no?

Let us check the guest list yet again, shall we, or do we want to use our little color crayons and color me coo coo?

Another thought, if I remember correctly JonBenet we were told was not feeling well afternoon of the 25th, am I right?

She could have stationed herself by the her window, she had a balcony visible to the street as well. She could have slipped down and let this person in by pre arranged visit.

Where would the key have come from, IF IF she gave it to the person? IF she did not give a key but let the person in herself, I believe this just may be the 'IT' of this case.


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[sharpar]

Eagle : The story I read was on one of the links listed under the sticky on this forum. I will look for it when I have bit more time.

 

[tipper]

Just had a brainstorm, New thought alert

Known facts:

1. JonBenet mentioned to her little friend that she was going to have a 'Secret visit with Santa AFTER Christmas'

2. JonBenet was too much of a trooper to have just made that up.

3. No sign of forced entry.?

4. Barnhill saw someone approach the house 25th, looked like JAR, street is very very narrow, vision would have been very clear.

5. John was at the airport on 25th, readying plane for takeoff next day.

5-a. Patsy was probably running around getting stuff done afternoon of 25th.

WE don't know the exact time of Barnhills sighting do WE?


Now then point of wonderment, could JonBenet have given a house key to the 'person telling her about the Secret visit from Santa AFTER Christmas so that Santa could get in to see her? Six year old would fall for that in my opinion.

Did this unidentified person that Barnhill saw get into the house and stash himself away til evening?

The bigger question would be WHO could it possibly have been? I would suspect that JonBenet was told of this Secret visit from Santa by someone who attended the party of the 23rd. OR someone who was present at another function where there was a Santa present. Yes or no?

Let us check the guest list yet again, shall we, or do we want to use our little color crayons and color me coo coo?

Another thought, if I remember correctly JonBenet we were told was not feeling well afternoon of the 25th, am I right?

She could have stationed herself by the her window, she had a balcony visible to the street as well. She could have slipped down and let this person in by pre arranged visit.

Where would the key have come from, IF IF she gave it to the person? IF she did not give a key but let the person in herself, I believe this just may be the 'IT' of this case.


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I've always thought the person Barnhill saw should have been a HUGE issue with the police but they never seemed to be terribly interested.

You'd have to check the interviews but I think the idea that JonBenet was not feeling well was a rumor and not true.

 

[Eagle1]

First, thanks, Sharpar.

Now about the walker, I'm with you, Camper.

You live near there and have personally seen that the street is very narrow, so that Barnhill would have had a good view. I THINK one of the books, probably Schiller's, said about 5 pm. Anyone know?

One thing, ST's book says there was frost on JonBenet's covered balcony, but no footprints. It hadn't been disturbed.

Now about her giving out a key, hm, could be!

It's rather strange that as far as we know, LE really are not trying to find out who the walker was, isn't it? Barnhill was told by the Rs' lawyers, I've read, basically to shut up, not by the R's directly. And the public (editing to say that's pubic) hair that LE wanted to compare to JAR's and Brad's actually could have been planted by someone, couldn't it? (Don't ask me how you'd get a buddy to lend you a pubic hair, silly as that sounds, or how you could have a stash of them if you were a BTK serial killer. ) It's past my bedtime. Maybe some of us will dream something. Yeah, right.

 

[sissi]

If she was not feeling well, it would explain the digestion of pineapple taking many hours, and suggest she ate it before she left.

Camper, I like it!!
It would make sense, only if Santa set her up, because we have been told, "he was her only santa". How would this work, Santa tells her to expect someone to pick her up, for the trip to the North Pole, he sends who? (CW?), then what?

 

[capps]

Posted by Tipper:
"I've always thought the person Barnhill saw should have been a HUGE issue with the police but they never seemed to be terribly interested."

Tipper,
I think it was a huge issue also.
But to be fair to the BDP ... Barnhill thought it was JAR,and the BPD checked it out,to find it wasn't JAR. Where else could they go with this information? It would be like searching for a needle in a haystack. No one else in the neighborhood seemed to have reported any one suspicious in the vicinity.

I do believe Barnhill did see someone,I would love to know who that was

 

[capps]

I felt the same way with the information the Stanton couple gave,(and recanted just like Barnhill did). It wasn't so much the scream alone that got me curious,as was the statement the husband gave along with it,of hearing steel scraping concrete. That could have been someone moving the window grate. I don't believe the window was a point of entry/exit for the perp,but maybe it was moved to see if it was possible,and then dismissed.Also,the LE did take a piece of sheet metal into evidence.I know Melodie Stanton backpedaled about the scream,but I don't think the Stanton husband ever recanted about hearing the scraping metal.

 

[UKGuy]

Posted by Tipper:
"I've always thought the person Barnhill saw should have been a HUGE issue with the police but they never seemed to be terribly interested."

Tipper,
I think it was a huge issue also.
But to be fair to the BDP ... Barnhill thought it was JAR,and the BPD checked it out,to find it wasn't JAR. Where else could they go with this information? It would be like searching for a needle in a haystack. No one else in the neighborhood seemed to have reported any one suspicious in the vicinity.

I do believe Barnhill did see someone,I would love to know who that was

capps,

Interesting topic this, one that really needs cleared up. If an unbiased criminal profiler were to take this case on, then the pool of profiled suspects would be small, the current forensic evidence does not allow it to be otherwise.

The person seen walking toward the Ramsey's house on Xmas Day, whom Barnhill thought was JAR, then Barnhill is likely using the same common sense that other people use who question this persons identity.

Please correct me if I am wrong here, I think it was BlueCrab who typed this unknown person 'could almost any male college student.'?

From a profiling perspective this would not be the main working assumption.

Since it was Xmas Day, people would, in general, have a fairly conservative schedule. That is most people could be accounted for.

So it would be highly likely that any person walking up the Ramsey driveway on Xmas Day, would be known to the Ramsey's.

Camper's theory which is entirely possible, must mean although nominally it appears like an IDI, it would not be a stranger IDI!


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[aussiesheila]

Good question.

Anyone remember who AS was/is? Or CG? I think CW is probably Chris Wolf. Or maybe not, just hoping to help at least that much. Can't answer the question.

Yes you've got CW right and AS is the sister of PW, wife of FW. It's not meant to be a guessing game but we are not supposed to name people here. And I would like to know if CG and/or CW looked similar to JAR back in '96.

Thanks for your interest Eagle1

 

[aussiesheila]

It's rather strange that as far as we know, LE really are not trying to find out who the walker was, isn't it? Barnhill was told by the Rs' lawyers, I've read, basically to shut up, not by the R's directly.

Eagle1 where did you read that it was the Ramseys' lawyers who told Barnhill to shut up? I would not be at all surprised to find that someone DID tell him to shut up but I'm almost certain it would NOT have been the Ramseys' lawyers. Can you please give a source for the claim that it was the Ramseys' lawyers? Thanks.

 

[aussiesheila]

If she was not feeling well, it would explain the digestion of pineapple taking many hours, and suggest she ate it before she left.

Camper, I like it!!
It would make sense, only if Santa set her up, because we have been told, "he was her only santa". How would this work, Santa tells her to expect someone to pick her up, for the trip to the North Pole, he sends who? (CW?), then what?

No, CW goes for a drive on the afternoon of the 25th (as he told the police when interviewed) and drops in on Santa in his home in the mountains late afternoon (he didn't tell the police this bit though). About 10 pm he drives Santa back to Boulder and he parks the car in an alleyway near the Ramsey house. He and Santa wait and watch the house until all the lights go out and then wait another hour or so until the kitchen light is turned on again around 11 pm by Patsy indicating that John is asleep and she will let Santa in for his 'special visit' to JonBenet which she thinks - because Santa has already told her this - that there has been a short photoshoot arranged with a famous photographer who is wants to take shots of Miss Junior Colorado together with Santa down in their basement.

IMO

 

[aussiesheila]

I felt the same way with the information the Stanton couple gave,(and recanted just like Barnhill did). It wasn't so much the scream alone that got me curious,as was the statement the husband gave along with it,of hearing steel scraping concrete. That could have been someone moving the window grate. I don't believe the window was a point of entry/exit for the perp,but maybe it was moved to see if it was possible,and then dismissed.Also,the LE did take a piece of sheet metal into evidence.I know Melodie Stanton backpedaled about the scream,but I don't think the Stanton husband ever recanted about hearing the scraping metal.

I agree. I think there was a genuine sighting by Barnhill, and sounds heard by the Stantons. I have always believed both Barnhill and the Stantons were pressured/threatened and forced to recant. And I don't believe this pressure came from the Ramseys or anyone associated with them. I think it came from people associated with the pedophile group that I believe was molesting JonBenet before she was killed.

 

[BeeBee]

Yes you've got CW right and AS is the sister of PW, wife of FW. It's not meant to be a guessing game but we are not supposed to name people here. And I would like to know if CG and/or CW looked similar to JAR back in '96.

Thanks for your interest Eagle1

You can name people who are an actual part of the case. Like Fleet White . You can't name people who are just brought up out of nowhere or are a distant relative of someone and you might think they did it. You can name people actually associated with the case. Geeez, I don't want to have to play a guessing game to know who someone's talking about. And also, except for JonBenet and maybe Burke, don't name kids.

 

[Eagle1]

I agree. I think there was a genuine sighting by Barnhill, and sounds heard by the Stantons. I have always believed both Barnhill and the Stantons were pressured/threatened and forced to recant. And I don't believe this pressure came from the Ramseys or anyone associated with them. I think it came from people associated with the pedophile group that I believe was molesting JonBenet before she was killed.

I like it. This thread is getting good.

My source that you asked about is fairly recent, Aussiesheila, but I can't remember it just at the moment. It was probably just another poster's opinion, so don't take it too seriously. Hope you didn't suffer from the recent weather disturbance that was world news.

Sheet metal was taken as evidence? Does anyone know what form it was in? How big, etc.? Why they took it?

Another thought, Barnhill didn't say if any greeting was exchanged betw him and the walker, who may have been closer together than we would assume, since Camper says the street is very narrow, and I'm assuming front yards are small, houses rather close to the street. And, if whoever it was stayed in the house for all those hours, wouldn't he have wanted something to eat/drink? Apparently he left no fingerprints and the R's didn't notice anything missing from the fridge, in all the confusion, with so many people in the house. JAR looks to be a rather large young man, so he and any other college man who resembles him probably would want to eat often. Had a sandwich or two in his pocket? Maybe even something to wash it down ?

Anyway, I'm glad someone remembered that Melody Stanton also was apparently talked out of her certainty about the scream. She did deliberately wake her husband, correct?

Metal scraping on concrete sounds like maybe JonBenet was being beaten with it. Not necessarily by the walker. By that time, there's no telling who else was there, or how many. If it was the grate, I don't think they'd just keep doing it, do you? Stanton doesn't say how long that sound continued.

 

[sharpar]

Eagle: I searched for over three hours last night for the boatman story.
Was not successful. :banghead: When I saw it originally I was just reading and came across it by following a posted link in a story or post about this case from the sticky on Ramsey links and resources.
I cant for the life of me remember exactly where I was though. I thought it was odd because there was nothing else about it. No other stories or any discussion in posts debating , commenting or saying it was false or true or whatever and since it was from the tabloids thought it was a false rumor or something no one could verify.

 

[capps]

Quote by Eagle1:
"Sheet metal was taken as evidence? Does anyone know what form it was in? How big, etc.? Why they took it?"

Eagle1,

No one knows anything more about the sheet metal,except for the fact that "sheet metal" was on the list of evidence taken by the LE. It would be helpful to go back and look under the thread "Inventory" for a list of all the things taken into evidence. There are some interesting posts under that thread.

 

[Eagle1]

Thanks for trying that hard, Sharpar. Sounds just like me. I'm sure you went through the sticky again, and I may check it too just in case there's anything there that I may have missed.

Seems to me the significance of the boatman story is that very possibly there could be a JAR lookalike involved in whatever group may have been there. I just don't think he'd be stupid enough to tell some criminal he wanted his little half sister killed. When asked after her death what he thought should be done to the killer, didn't he say, "Forgiveness"? But the picture of him sitting by her grave does, imho, look a little bit too much, almost as if he may have thought some people wouldn't think he cared about her. Is it just me, or did it strike anyone else that way? Do you think he would have trusted this sometime-informant that much, and not anyone else?

About the semen-soiled blanket in JAR's suitcase near the crime scene, was he just taking it downstairs to launder it and someone else was already using the washer, so he had to wait and then forgot about it, or for some other reason ran out of time, If it WAS in the middle of the night? I'm not saying it was.

 

[Eagle1]

Eagle1,No one knows anything more about the sheet metal,except for the fact that "sheet metal" was on the list of evidence taken by the LE. It would be helpful to go back and look under the thread "Inventory" for a list of all the things taken into evidence. There are some interesting posts under that thread.

Thanks, Capps, I believe I will go there and take another look. Just came from Crime Library, can't find the "JonBenet Ramsey murder case, an investigative analysis - from the Crime Library - The...." page where my printer says I got the picture of the Ramsey family.

If anyone else found it, will you give us the correct link? Also, I goofed when I said it was taken before Beth died. That's Melinda, not Beth, in the pic. Sorry, guys. I did find a couple of articles there about Smit's Intruder Theory, and a partial list of evidences, some of which have been debated at times due to our slightly faded memories. I don't think we're doing too badly, though, reminding each other of whatever details have slipped.

The only thing I'd disagree with Smit about is the intruder using the bsmt window to leave, when there were so many doors. I think someone put the suitcase under the window to make it look like he left that way. Not a terribly important point. Smit says there were foam packing peanuts that had apparently been brought in via the bsmt window. And this article says the lone footprint in the mold was not ever matched. (Burke had owned some Hi Tecs, but it wasn't his, and a couple of palm prints were ID'd as Patsy's and Melinda's, but one was never ID'd (?)

Someone at another forum said ST said the photo of the dictionary, which dictionary hadn't been visible originally in the crime scene, FELL OUT of the evidence envelope when he started to look into it. So, I think possibly someone in LE, either BPD or possibly another PD somewhere else, may have planted it, and the other evidence papers/snapshots were probably clipped together somehow so that just this one fell out. The dictionary was dogeared all the way down to the word "Incest". Maybe this will be at the other thread.

 

[sissi]

Just some more low IQ fluff to make a buck. Shame on you Mr. Smith!
How dare he start by disregarding the dna, where are his credentials in forensics? Garbage in ,garbage out, he didn't do his research.