New Book on JonBenet coming soon

[aussiesheila]

You can name people who are an actual part of the case. Like Fleet White . You can't name people who are just brought up out of nowhere or are a distant relative of someone and you might think they did it. You can name people actually associated with the case. Geeez, I don't want to have to play a guessing game to know who someone's talking about. And also, except for JonBenet and maybe Burke, don't name kids.

Thanks BeeBee, but I don't think it's OK to mention FW's full name as someone associated with the case if you have something bad to say about him? Like in some people's opinions, including mine, he has behaved extremely strangely ever since the murder and has therefore put himself under an umbrella of suspicion in their minds?

But it's OK to mention anyone as long as you use initials? Right?

 

[aussiesheila]

I like it. This thread is getting good.

My source that you asked about is fairly recent, Aussiesheila, but I can't remember it just at the moment. It was probably just another poster's opinion, so don't take it too seriously. Hope you didn't suffer from the recent weather disturbance that was world news.

Sheet metal was taken as evidence? Does anyone know what form it was in? How big, etc.? Why they took it?

Another thought, Barnhill didn't say if any greeting was exchanged betw him and the walker, who may have been closer together than we would assume, since Camper says the street is very narrow, and I'm assuming front yards are small, houses rather close to the street. And, if whoever it was stayed in the house for all those hours, wouldn't he have wanted something to eat/drink? Apparently he left no fingerprints and the R's didn't notice anything missing from the fridge, in all the confusion, with so many people in the house. JAR looks to be a rather large young man, so he and any other college man who resembles him probably would want to eat often. Had a sandwich or two in his pocket? Maybe even something to wash it down ?

Anyway, I'm glad someone remembered that Melody Stanton also was apparently talked out of her certainty about the scream. She did deliberately wake her husband, correct?

Metal scraping on concrete sounds like maybe JonBenet was being beaten with it. Not necessarily by the walker. By that time, there's no telling who else was there, or how many. If it was the grate, I don't think they'd just keep doing it, do you? Stanton doesn't say how long that sound continued.

Thanks Eagle1, let me know when you remember it please. And I'm betting it was no-one associated with the Ramseys.

Thanks for your concern about the weather and me. No I didn't.

The sheet metal is interesting. I don't know any details except I thought I read it was on the floor of the cellar with a blanket covering it. I am imagining that the perpetrators saw it there and got the thought that it might be covering a hole to a space below which would be an ideal place to hide the body really safely until the way was clear for them to remove it to the mountains. I am imagining they dragged the sheet metal aside only to discover to what I am imagining was their great disappointment, that there was nothing like they had hoped underneath, so they just had to drag the sheet metal back into place and leave the body on the floor of the cellar and hope that no-one would have reason to go in there for 36 hours or so.

I don't remember when Barnhill said he saw the walker, or indeed if I ever knew. Someone posted earlier that they thought it was around 5 pm; I would have thought it would have been pretty dark in Boulder at that time on Dec 25, but maybe the street lighting was good.

I don't think the walker was going there with the intention of getting into the house at that time though, I think he was just sussing the place out prior to his intended visit around midnight.

 

[sissi]

It bothers me that Barnhill was not cleared, that his dna was not eliminated. Where was his son?

 

[capps]

Ouote by aussiesheila:
"The sheet metal is interesting. I don't know any details except I thought I read it was on the floor of the cellar with a blanket covering it."

aussiesheila,

We know nothing about the sheet metal,except that "sheet metal" was on the evidence list taken by LE. That's all. Anything else was just suggestions or theories by posters.

 

[aussiesheila]

It bothers me that Barnhill was not cleared, that his dna was not eliminated. Where was his son?

Oh sissi, I thought I was up to date on my reading. Please tell where you found this information that I haven't heard of. Thanks.

But wait, am I retrieving info from deep data base? Was it from PMPT, and the result was unclear because they didn't know how from how many sources the DNA was derived from?

 

[aussiesheila]

Ouote by aussiesheila:
"The sheet metal is interesting. I don't know any details except I thought I read it was on the floor of the cellar with a blanket covering it."

aussiesheila,

We know nothing about the sheet metal,except that "sheet metal" was on the evidence list taken by LE. That's all. Anything else was just suggestions or theories by posters.

OK, thanks Capps.

 

[Eagle1]

At CrimeLibrary, below the page with JonBenet's picture in a white dress, there are some chapters or pages to click on, #4 for the family pic.

I'm still looking at ACancyRose for a possible pic of some of the Dec. 23rd party guests. There's a lot there.

 

[Eagle1]

Couple of weeks later, about the possibility of a lookalike, come to think of it, probably JonBenet would not have gotten into a boat with a stranger even if he did look like JAR, especially without her family. He would have sounded and acted very different from JAR.

So the informant must have been just trying to cast suspicion on JAR, but why, and how did he, in Waterford, Michigan near Pontiac, even know JAR? He doesn't sound like a college man.

What could be the connection with Waterford, Mi.? That should be the point of this angle.

Camper, Anyone, did the Globe article about the informant in Feb. 97 mention anything else about Waterford? Ellen13, have you heard anything?

 

[aussiesheila]

Ouote by aussiesheila:
"The sheet metal is interesting. I don't know any details except I thought I read it was on the floor of the cellar with a blanket covering it."

aussiesheila,

We know nothing about the sheet metal,except that "sheet metal" was on the evidence list taken by LE. That's all. Anything else was just suggestions or theories by posters.

Actually Capps, we do know that the sheet metal came from the wine cellar though. I knew I had read it somewhere and I found it again on another thread where you! had so kindly posted the inventory of items taken from the Ramsey house:

"Black sheet metal from wine cellar (39KKY)"

And somewhere else I read that police had found a second blanket under JonBenet, although I have yet to re-find this bit of info.

 

[Eagle1]

Anyone know the approximate size of the sheet metal, and if it looked new or was rusted, dented, or whatever condition? What would be some possible uses for it?

Could it have been for something in the train room? The black tape too?

 

[Camper]

Anyone know the approximate size of the sheet metal, and if it looked new or was rusted, dented, or whatever condition? What would be some possible uses for it?

Could it have been for something in the train room? The black tape too?

--->>>Only saw a picture of it laying on the floor. Just old looking not shiny, just dull looking. I would guess about not quite a yard long, and maybe a foot and a half wide. Just a guess.

How a piece of it ever arrived in the house would be a question. What it could have been used for, your guess is as good as mine.

Perhaps as an addition to the top of a work table where soldering might be happening, to keep table top clean and unmarred. OR to place a model on while gluing it together.

Had a thought about the black tape the other day, perhaps to tape up a black backdrop for picture taking, so the tape would not show. Silver masking tape would look tacky in a picture.


.

 

[Toltec]

Ouote by aussiesheila:
"The sheet metal is interesting. I don't know any details except I thought I read it was on the floor of the cellar with a blanket covering it."

aussiesheila,

We know nothing about the sheet metal,except that "sheet metal" was on the evidence list taken by LE. That's all. Anything else was just suggestions or theories by posters.

Ausie is right....the sheet metal came from the wine cellar.

 

[capps]

Ausie is right....the sheet metal came from the wine cellar.

I was the one that posted the inventory list,I am aware that the list said "black sheetmetal from the wine cellar". Some poeple were posting that it was lying on the floor with a blanket over it.We do not know that,it could have been standing up against a wall for all we know.That's what I was responding to when I said we know nothing about the sheetmetal.

 

[ellen13]

Couple of weeks later, about the possibility of a lookalike, come to think of it, probably JonBenet would not have gotten into a boat with a stranger even if he did look like JAR, especially without her family. He would have sounded and acted very different from JAR.

So the informant must have been just trying to cast suspicion on JAR, but why, and how did he, in Waterford, Michigan near Pontiac, even know JAR? He doesn't sound like a college man.

What could be the connection with Waterford, Mi.? That should be the point of this angle.

Camper, Anyone, did the Globe article about the informant in Feb. 97 mention anything else about Waterford? Ellen13, have you heard anything?

Sorry, but I haven't heard anything about Waterford before, other than what's been written on this board. That was news to me. I have friends in Waterford. That's about it. When I get together with them, I would love to talk with them. They have a boat and they know a lot about the area.

 

[Camper]

I did not get a response from a friend at a tabloid, who I thought would assist.

There does not seem to be a way to send an email to Globe, to have someone dig up an old issue of the Globe.

The article was in the Globe, Feb of 1997.

About Waterford MI, The article as I remember said the man 'boatman' was living in WAterford. He worked as an undercover narc for the PD there.

LOTS OF boat racing in Waterford.

Read the first link through Google.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=waterford+michigan+boat+races?

Ramseys raced their boat in regattas. At one time we had links posted showing their participation in regattas in MI. I no longer have any of the links. Showed the races they participated in, and the members of their racing team by name.

SOOOOOOOO in conclusion, Boatman was near people who did drugs, sold drugs etc, in order to get the goods on dealers.

SINCE we do not know his name, we do not know if he raced in regattas, or knew the ramseys through regattas, or if he knew a ramsey through a drug connection. BUT if someone asked him to use a boat to have an accident with JBR in the boat with her half brother, then he must have had a boat, or use of a boat.

IF anyone can do a communique with Globe and find someone who would look it all up that would be great. I am not going to do it personally.

Go for it guys.


IT APPEARS that the WPD deemed this man unreliable, but I would hardly think that was the case, IF IF he came forward after a tiny girl was murdered with information that could help find the KILLER. PERHAPS WPD did not want to blow his cover. I donut know, and I donut know what the BPD knows either.

We had so many crashes here on WS in the nearly 10 years since the murder, that any information and posts about it, are in the deep darky area of 'lost in the Ozone.'



.

 

[Eagle1]

Thanks for the size and condition of the sheet metal. I didn't think we'd find out that much but just thought I'd ask anyway.

I tried to search Globe articles written about Feb. 1997 and gave up. I may try it again. (And BTW, JonBenet wouldn't have gotten into a boat with a JAR lookalike, so that silly idea is scrapped, I guess everyone knew and just didn't want to say.)

Oh yes, they were involved in some boat races. I'd forgotten that. But why would someone there be wanting to get JAR in trouble?

 

[Camper]

Thanks for the size and condition of the sheet metal. I didn't think we'd find out that much but just thought I'd ask anyway.

I tried to search Globe articles written about Feb. 1997 and gave up. I may try it again. (And BTW, JonBenet wouldn't have gotten into a boat with a JAR lookalike, so that silly idea is scrapped, I guess everyone knew and just didn't want to say.)

Oh yes, they were involved in some boat races. I'd forgotten that. But why would someone there be wanting to get JAR in trouble?

------>>>The picture that I saw of the sheet metal, it was lying on the cement floor of the wine cellar. My thought that since there was a floor safe, the area around may have been uneven and the metal MAY have been lain there for double purpose, one to cover the safe top, and to make the floor more even. Who knows, well PR or JR should know. Anyone know IF they were ever asked about it?

On the bolded part of your post, WE don't know if anyone was trying to get JAR in trouble since it 'appears' that a non thorough investigation of 'boat man' was done. That would take down my wonderment flag, IF IF IF the PD had done a thorough investigation of 'boat man'.

The only information I ever heard or read about boat man was that he was 'unreliable'. Well how many PD's hire 'narcs' that are unreliable ?, hmmm.

I had all of the tabloids about the murder, from issue number 1. I scrapped them all after my heart surgery, and our major move to downsize. WISH I had not done that, but life goes on.

.

 

[ellen13]

I did not get a response from a friend at a tabloid, who I thought would assist.

There does not seem to be a way to send an email to Globe, to have someone dig up an old issue of the Globe.

The article was in the Globe, Feb of 1997.

About Waterford MI, The article as I remember said the man 'boatman' was living in WAterford. He worked as an undercover narc for the PD there.

LOTS OF boat racing in Waterford.

Read the first link through Google.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=waterford+michigan+boat+races%3F

Ramseys raced their boat in regattas. At one time we had links posted showing their participation in regattas in MI. I no longer have any of the links. Showed the races they participated in, and the members of their racing team by name.

SOOOOOOOO in conclusion, Boatman was near people who did drugs, sold drugs etc, in order to get the goods on dealers.

SINCE we do not know his name, we do not know if he raced in regattas, or knew the ramseys through regattas, or if he knew a ramsey through a drug connection. BUT if someone asked him to use a boat to have an accident with JBR in the boat with her half brother, then he must have had a boat, or use of a boat.

IF anyone can do a communique with Globe and find someone who would look it all up that would be great. I am not going to do it personally.

Go for it guys.


IT APPEARS that the WPD deemed this man unreliable, but I would hardly think that was the case, IF IF he came forward after a tiny girl was murdered with information that could help find the KILLER. PERHAPS WPD did not want to blow his cover. I donut know, and I donut know what the BPD knows either.

We had so many crashes here on WS in the nearly 10 years since the murder, that any information and posts about it, are in the deep darky area of 'lost in the Ozone.'



.

Last summer, my husband and in-laws (they came in from NY for the boat race) attended the boat race at Port Austin (just to observe and celebrate) We're not boaters ourselves. It's a really neat celebration in Port Austin before the boats begin the race. I believe the race ends in Macinaw Island. I'm fairly new to Michigan, so this was my first time and I'm not that familiar with the area. However, I do know that this is the race that JR participated in for those years prior. Sorry, all I know. To my knowledge, I have no idea of JR did this race or not. I'm kind of assuming he did because he lives in Charlevoix and seems to be quite active in Michigan. Now, Waterford would be a hike from Port Austin as well as Charlevoix. Sorry, this is all I know. Wish I knew more and could help with info. Just giving geographic and event info.
Ellen

 

[Eagle1]

------>>>.....The only information I ever heard or read about boat man was that he was 'unreliable'. Well how many PD's hire 'narcs' that are unreliable ?, hmmm.

I had all of the tabloids about the murder, from issue number 1. I scrapped them all after my heart surgery, and our major move to downsize. WISH I had not done that, but life goes on.

Good question, "how many PD's hire 'narcs' that are unreliable?,hmmm" Yep, I'm also thinking he may be pretty important for them to cover for, maybe even JAR too, but can't figure why he'd even bring it up.........

(I Don't remember hearing about you having heart surgery, hope you're doing great. Yeah, I need to throw out a lot of saved-up papers too, some probably important, would never find any paper if I were looking for it, among so many. I remember my mother doing it, having a sister to help her.)

Editing to add, re the sheet metal in the wine cellar, covering the floor safe would sure be a possibility. I wonder if it could have been left over from when the furnace was installed when the house was built, or maybe replaced, and they just kept it around for whatever use might develop.

 

[Camper]

Ellen, I remember with some clarity that with the digging I did way back then that there is an airport in Waterford, do you know what type of planes can be accomodated there?

IF the R's sometimes came to Waterford by their own lil plane, would not be a long flight. DO you know the distances involved from points involved C to W, PA to C etc.?

Open heart triple by pass surgery in 1999, was given five months to live, but I am still at it and feeling terrific. Three stents put in 3 weeks after hubby died in 2004, they lost the fourth one - it floated on to find a smaller home on the return trip to my heart. All veins were clear from the 99 surgery, heart doc said they had just missed this one. Long story (theres more) made short here, for lack of most folks interest, hee hee.

Hey if R's claimed JAR not in Waterford 'summer of 1996 when boat man claimed the offer was made to him', who knows as to whose plane going here or there had whomever in it. Flying over fer a boat race, lunch, snacks er whutever, then flying back to Charlevoix. Possibly IF they saw no one that knew them THAT day (boatman day) then 'they er JAR' were not there.

People who own private planes 'fly' em. Cooking up fun short and longer trips. People who have fancy bicycles ride em, cuz they like riding em. People with GREAT new cars drive em, cuz they like to. Same reasoning at play here. Its just that most of us donut have little airplanes of our own.

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