New Book on JonBenet coming soon

[luvbeaches]

Tipper,

I'm curious. What makes you so quickly dismiss the book?

Through all the years of following this case, I've noticed that the ones that think the R's are innocent never ever want to believe anything that would point in the direction that the R's are guilty. They are innocent, and that's that. I think if one of the R's confessed, the R's didn't do it group would still not believe it!

On the other hand, the vast majority of people who believe that the R's were somehow involved in the death of their daughter, do hope that the last person JonBenet saw before she died was not a familiar face. I do not want to think that they had something to do with her death, it's just hard to explain all the inconsistancies in things they've said and done. I'd love nothing more than this case to be solved, and it be someone other than a Ramsey involved. I've also noticed that there is no discussing this with people who think the R's are innocent. They explain away everything, and they dismiss books like this without even reading them. The book may be nothing new, but why not read it.

Little kids die in the hands of mom and dad all the time. And many, if not most , don't have as much as a parking ticket. It happens. I don't know what happened to JonBenet, but I do know her parent's actions and statements are strange. I have no reason to want them to be guilty, but I am open to ALL possibilities, something the R's-didn't-do-it camp seems to have a problem dealing with. I've said before, I am a believer in what Steve Thomas has said, but I would also love for him to be wrong. Poor little JonBenet.

 

[capps]

Quote by luvbeaches:
"Through all the years of following this case, I've noticed that the ones that think the R's are innocent never ever want to believe anything that would point in the direction that the R's are guilty. They are innocent, and that's that. I think if one of the R's confessed, the R's didn't do it group would still not believe it!"

luvbeaches,

That's a pretty broad statement you're making.

I can't and won't speak for other posters,but I don't think the Ramsey's killed JonBenet. I am forever reading this forum,and searching and researching information,that may one day lead to the smoking gun. And if that information should happen to lead to the Ramsey's ... so be it. But IMO, so far that hasn't happened.

So you see luvbeaches ... not ALL posters that think the Ramsey's didn't murder JonBenet,believe the "Ramsey's are innocent and that's that."

 

[ellen13]

Hi you guys,
I live very close to Waterford, MI and could someone please fill me in on the Waterford incident. I have friends there who might know something.
Thanks,
Ellen

 

[tipper]

[...]

Little kids die in the hands of mom and dad all the time. And many, if not most , don't have as much as a parking ticket. It happens.[...]

I think if you check, the majority of parents who murder their children have a lot more than a parking ticket in their background. You'll find on-going abuse, drug/alcohol/mental problems, financial problems etc etc.

 

[sissi]

Where's the book? Was it ever released? Holding my breath in anticipation, nothing like another record playin' backwards to dig up the ramseys devil.

 

[luvbeaches]

Quote by luvbeaches:
"Through all the years of following this case, I've noticed that the ones that think the R's are innocent never ever want to believe anything that would point in the direction that the R's are guilty. They are innocent, and that's that. I think if one of the R's confessed, the R's didn't do it group would still not believe it!"

luvbeaches,

That's a pretty broad statement you're making.

I can't and won't speak for other posters,but I don't think the Ramsey's killed JonBenet. I am forever reading this forum,and searching and researching information,that may one day lead to the smoking gun. And if that information should happen to lead to the Ramsey's ... so be it. But IMO, so far that hasn't happened.

So you see luvbeaches ... not ALL posters that think the Ramsey's didn't murder JonBenet,believe the "Ramsey's are innocent and that's that."

Hey, it's my opinion. I've been following this for years. You're right, not all think this way...but for the most part, the R's didn't do it group can't seem to grasp that maybe they did. It you can, good for you. I stand by my statement.

 

[narlacat]

Hi you guys,
I live very close to Waterford, MI and could someone please fill me in on the Waterford incident. I have friends there who might know something.
Thanks,
Ellen

Hi Ellen
There's really not anything more to know than is what's on this page, I think in Camper's post.
Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[aussiesheila]

Camper, I keep forgetting to ask anyone, but sometimes mention the Boatman thing to others, who always want the original source of this story. Do you happen to remember?

BlueCrab, I don't know much about Nathan. I would tend to think the molester who killed the child accidentally or on purpose was at the party on the 23rd, and that the WALKER also played a part, who certainly resembled JAR. Just my impressions.

Eagle1, for those of us who have not been here as long as you, could you please fill us in a little on Boatman and WALKER. Thanks

 

[Eagle1]

AussieSheila, Camper seems to know more about this than any of us. If there's any more to know than she's just told us, I'm sure she'll answer your inquiry, which will be interesting to me also. Thanks, Camper. I don't suppose there's any way to get a copy of that back issue of Globe this late. Our library has sales of old materials every few months and I'm sure wouldn't have it. Don't forget, there's someone here who lives in or near Waterford, Mi, knows people and could ask around.

Quoting Camper, "Boatman was an undercover narc for the POLICE.
Boatman in his undercover work, surely met a lot of druggies on a daily basis.
PD would not want to blow Boatmans identity, I guess." And the rest of her post mentions that it's hard to find any pics of JAR, true, so, I just now thought of this, "what if" JAR really is an undercover, reason he and his mom needed lawyers, provided by JR? I don't think he'd risk trying to arrange a boating accident for his little half-sister, though. Do you?

I've just been asking questions about it all, such as, someone maybe IMPERSONATING JAR, that being a reminder that one of the Dallas books said there were several Lee Harvey Oswalds. It showed a pic of one of them, a hefty guy, criminal-looking, with a gun, who didn't look a thing like Oswald. The book didn't speculate about why there would be (four?) other Oswalds, maybe because if anyone uses the c word, which is legit and there are laws about it, some propaganda group over-reacts to label them a paranoid, mentally ill. Why do they need such a defense mechanism? Search me, and no, I don't know who they are, but I think it's a very interesting question.

I think those of us who're interested in these side stories are just keeping an open mind instead of rushing to judgement against the parents when there's so much else that's suspicious. "Appearances can be deceiving." They could have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time. We never said their behavior wasn't rather like a gov't coverup of some kind, which, if JAR were gov't employed, would be understandable, knowing also that lawyers typically want to take over and do all the talking, typically ADVISE CLIENTS NOT TO. Doing the talking is what they get paid for.

I'm glad Camper pointed out that it's hard to find a pic of JAR, which I'd been noticing too. I just remember one at JonBenet's graveside. And that the family stopped taking pictures of him; they arranged to celebrate Christmas with the older kids in Charlevoix instead of the Boulder house, etc., which I believe has been briefly discussed before, pretty far back. We hadn't thought of any undercover work at the time, and it's just a thought. I know nothink. There's a long theory at www.Konformist.com titled "Daddy's Little Princess" about CIA and all that sort of thing. It's been a long time since I skimmed it, don't know if it's still there or if anyone can connect it to this.

 

[capps]

Quote by BlueCrab:
"Nathan was not at the Ramsey's party on the 23rd. However, from the back he could have resembled JAR, allegedly observed by Joe Barnhill walking toward the Ramsey's house on Christmas day, but so could almost any male college student."

BlueCrab.
What you said above,is the suspicious part.
If NI wasn't in Boulder on 12/25,and JAR wasn't in Boulder on 12/25,then who is the young male walking up the Ramsey driveway?

I don't think Barnhill just made that up,even though he now denies it.From everything I have read,there wasn't anyone in the Ramsey house matching that discription,I've only read that some of Burke's friends were over,which would be younger kids.

I think the LE dropped the ball on this one,and were only satisfied when they believed it wasn't JAR,so they investigated no further.

Who was walking up that driveway? Obviously,it had to be someone.

 

[Camper]

Quote by BlueCrab:
"Nathan was not at the Ramsey's party on the 23rd. However, from the back he could have resembled JAR, allegedly observed by Joe Barnhill walking toward the Ramsey's house on Christmas day, but so could almost any male college student."

BlueCrab.
What you said above,is the suspicious part.
If NI wasn't in Boulder on 12/25,and JAR wasn't in Boulder on 12/25,then who is the young male walking up the Ramsey driveway?

I don't think Barnhill just made that up,even though he now denies it.From everything I have read,there wasn't anyone in the Ramsey house matching that discription,I've only read that some of Burke's friends were over,which would be younger kids.

I think the LE dropped the ball on this one,and were only satisfied when they believed it wasn't JAR,so they investigated no further.

Who was walking up that driveway? Obviously,it had to be someone.

------->>>Hmmm, I am confused about who said what in the quoted material above, BUT as I recall there NO driveway in front of the Ramsey home, ONLY curb parking. IN the alley which I have driven several times, there are two spaces sloping down to the double garage doors, where two cars could be parked in the space between the alley access AND the garage door.

My opinion and recollection is that Barnhill did SEE the actual person, and Barnhill did not DENY it, but rather was CONVINCED BY THE R'S that is wasn't JAR. Since the R camp produced alibi's that JAR was NOT in Boulder on Christmas Day. Hmmm.

Now you see it now you don't. Poof. Example: I did not see it cuz they said I didn't see it. Well there ya go. Next.



,


.

 

[Camper]

AussieSheila, Camper seems to know more about this than any of us. If there's any more to know than she's just told us, I'm sure she'll answer your inquiry, which will be interesting to me also. Thanks, Camper. I don't suppose there's any way to get a copy of that back issue of Globe this late. Our library has sales of old materials every few months and I'm sure wouldn't have it. Don't forget, there's someone here who lives in or near Waterford, Mi, knows people and could ask around.

Quoting Camper, "Boatman was an undercover narc for the POLICE.
Boatman in his undercover work, surely met a lot of druggies on a daily basis.
PD would not want to blow Boatmans identity, I guess." And the rest of her post mentions that it's hard to find any pics of JAR, true, so, I just now thought of this, "what if" JAR really is an undercover, reason he and his mom needed lawyers, provided by JR? I don't think he'd risk trying to arrange a boating accident for his little half-sister, though. Do you?

I've just been asking questions about it all, such as, someone maybe IMPERSONATING JAR, that being a reminder that one of the Dallas books said there were several Lee Harvey Oswalds. It showed a pic of one of them, a hefty guy, criminal-looking, with a gun, who didn't look a thing like Oswald. The book didn't speculate about why there would be (four?) other Oswalds, maybe because if anyone uses the c word, which is legit and there are laws about it, some propaganda group over-reacts to label them a paranoid, mentally ill. Why do they need such a defense mechanism? Search me, and no, I don't know who they are, but I think it's a very interesting question.

I think those of us who're interested in these side stories are just keeping an open mind instead of rushing to judgement against the parents when there's so much else that's suspicious. "Appearances can be deceiving." They could have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time. We never said their behavior wasn't rather like a gov't coverup of some kind, which, if JAR were gov't employed, would be understandable, knowing also that lawyers typically want to take over and do all the talking, typically ADVISE CLIENTS NOT TO. Doing the talking is what they get paid for.

I'm glad Camper pointed out that it's hard to find a pic of JAR, which I'd been noticing too. I just remember one at JonBenet's graveside. And that the family stopped taking pictures of him; they arranged to celebrate Christmas with the older kids in Charlevoix instead of the Boulder house, etc., which I believe has been briefly discussed before, pretty far back. We hadn't thought of any undercover work at the time, and it's just a thought. I know nothink. There's a long theory at www.Konformist.com titled "Daddy's Little Princess" about CIA and all that sort of thing. It's been a long time since I skimmed it, don't know if it's still there or if anyone can connect it to this.

---->>>When we moved and downsized 6 years ago, I pitched out my HUGE stack of the tabloid papers that I had collected on the case. I have an email addy for someone who works at one of the papers, whom I have visited with - I will see IF I can get my hands on 'the' copy that told the story about Boatman.

More late, maybe.

.

 

[Eagle1]

You've physically visited with someone who works for one of the tabloids? Not Jeff Shapiro? Thanks so much for thinking of trying to get that story.

Meanwhile, THE WALKER, yes, had to be someone, and someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Barnhill said he saw him from the back, did he? I always just assumed he saw him coming along the sidewalk and maybe turning in. I just think he must have seen the front of the guy, to form the opinion he looked like JAR.

And I'm going to look through some of my thick ring binders of printouts to see if I can find any of MJenn's project, proving it was indeed physically possible for JAR and his pal Brad to have flown to Boulder and back that night just for a lark, maybe some kind of clandestine gathering (?) and the ATM pic which was JAR's alibi just showed the top of someone's head, wearing a baseball cap. It's not proof he was in Atlanta at that time at all. Could have been one of his buddies. I think they'd been to a movie earlier that pm.

The posts of that theory were so long I may not have printed them so don't anyone get your hopes up. Anyone heard anything about where JAR might be now? I have a hunch that the walker and boatman are probably one and the same person, probably a lookalike, and if so, what would that mean, guys?

 

[sharpar]

I have read the posts and the original article was linked I believe The Globe about the boatman on one of the sites listed on this forum. I came across it
while briefing myself of articles, transcripts etc before joining the discussion. It may have been ACR but not postive.

 

[Eagle1]

Friday

I've looked through my printout binders and found where MJenn said the police must have already known it was possible for JAR to be in Boulder that night and back in time to leave again with the sister, because they asked both JAR and his pal Brad for public-hair samples. The ATM picture which served as his alibi only showed the top of a head, any head, wearing a baseball cap.

Today I'm planning to do a web search for 1997 tabloid articles. So, meanwhile, if you have an idea where these links are, can you find them, Sharpar? I know we'd all appreciate it who're reading this thread. And hopefully maybe there's even a picture or two. Thanks.

 

[Eagle1]

There's a snapshot of the Ramsey family before Beth's death, at http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorius_murders/famous/ramsey/allegations_4.html .

John Andrew looks very big, doesn't he? If this link works.

I read through a lot of pages in my web search, probably don't have exactly the right search term for the Waterford, Mi. incident. It's where Dr. Kevorkian was tried, I did learn.

Editing to add that the above link gets you to Crime Library, but not to the picture. A Crime Library An Investigative Analysis search may be necessary, sorry. I tried. By the time I might find it, the edit time would expire.

 

[ANGRYWOLF]

the neighborhood for the very first time see a child, snatch and grab and that's that. One has nothing to do with the other other than , as Messala said in Ben Hur, "if they're dead they're dead". If that girl in NY hadn't been drunk at that bar alone maybe..maybe she would be alive right now. Dead is dead.
I personally don't believe the Ramseys did it....but I try not to be hostile to those who do and I hope they aren't hostile to those of us who believe someone else did it. I just have a gut feeling we will know/find out who did it someday and if "the Ramseys are innocent view" is right we need not to make life miserable for those who felt otherwise and I hope they treat us the same way if they are right...
As for John Douglas, former FBI profiler whom the other side scorns because he says he believes the Ramseys are innocent....he said at a presentation in Nashville back in February ..that Patsy is dying.Maybe if she is guilty she'll confess as she won't have anything to lose.I would hope so.But if she is innocent..I will be sorry to see her go to the grave villified by so many people for the death of Jon Benet.

http://knoxville.yourhub.com/Story.aspx?contentid=64299

 

[narlacat]

<<Maybe if she is guilty she'll confess as she won't have anything to lose>>

Hell will freeze over before Patsy Ramsey confesses her involvement in her daughter's death.
The only thing she'll be thinking when the time comes is...'phew, I got away with it, noone will ever know the truth now'

I don't expect a confession from any of them, even Burke. He is a Ramsey after all and they come pretty tight lipped.

 

[aussiesheila]

Quote by BlueCrab:
"Nathan was not at the Ramsey's party on the 23rd. However, from the back he could have resembled JAR, allegedly observed by Joe Barnhill walking toward the Ramsey's house on Christmas day, but so could almost any male college student."

BlueCrab.
What you said above,is the suspicious part.
If NI wasn't in Boulder on 12/25,and JAR wasn't in Boulder on 12/25,then who is the young male walking up the Ramsey driveway?

I don't think Barnhill just made that up,even though he now denies it.From everything I have read,there wasn't anyone in the Ramsey house matching that discription,I've only read that some of Burke's friends were over,which would be younger kids.

I think the LE dropped the ball on this one,and were only satisfied when they believed it wasn't JAR,so they investigated no further.

Who was walking up that driveway? Obviously,it had to be someone.

Just as an aside, does anyone know what CG, boyfriend of AS looked like in 1996? And also CW, boyfriend of JD? I am curious to know.

 

[Eagle1]

..........But if she is innocent..I will be sorry to see her go to the grave villified by so many people for the death of Jon Benet.

http://knoxville.yourhub.com/Story.aspx?contentid=64299

Well-said.