New Details of Josh's Brainwashing Techniques

[Jacie Estes]

JP chose death by a massive fire because with this method no one could alter his decision to end his sons’ lives. Like all domestic batterers, he considered his wife and children to be nothing more than his property for which he was entitled to make all the decisions.

I agree 1000%. He was exhibiting control and by putting Susan's pictures around the room he was, in his mind, making her suffer as well, his actions were cruel. I thought that I read that he was found with a melted gas can between his legs. I'm wondering about the placement of his body with the boys.

 

[Sharai]

I agree in that I don't think Josh Powell was altruistic. But he sure loved to wear the martyr's mantle; at least, that was my impression of the interviews I've seen of him.

I don't have a link for you but I recall reading that his body was identified by his dental records.

The martyr role is the mask of manipulation commonly worn by psychopaths. They seek pity as a means to fool their target into believing they are harmless when in fact they are extremely dangerous. Beware!

 

[dovebar]

BBM

The bear story could be significant. Then again, if the "Mommy is looking for crystals" story is accurate, that kind of rules out the bear story, I think. To me, the comments about Mommy being in a mine and Mommy looking for crystals seem more likely.

The reason I don't think the bear story is pertinent is that it tickles something in my memory, some book or movie I've seen. Something about a mountain man character having fun scaring some kids he caught eating his raspberries.

I've been looking on Google and Amazon but cannot find anything like what I'm thinking, so it may well be a confabulated memory (where I've put two or more things together and don't realise it).

But still, could it be that Charlie and/or Braden were exposed to some sort of story like that?

As for Josh Powell's grandmother's second husband, are you suggesting JP killed him? Wouldn't he have been very, very young at the time?

I am wondering if it's possible that SP and his parents had something to do with the man's death. As in, if she wasn't going to stay married to SP's father, and she was going to have the audacity to go meet someone nice and get married, they were going to end that. SP is a control freak and seems to have meddled for years in JPs life, and that behavior, like the demented sexual behavior, also comes from somewhere.

So I'm just wondering how far this family went to ruin SP's mother's life - other than stealing and disappearing with her kids, FI. I also wonder where she is and/or how and when she died, and under what circumstances. Here mother-in-law's comments showed evidence of wanting to erase her from her children's lives.

 

[Sharai]

PLZ EXCUSE THE RIDICULOUS ERRORS THIS TOUCHPAD SUCKS!



A Question I have that there they may not be an answer for is my wanting to know what exactlywould have motivated Josh to use the depraved method of chopping the boys necks witha hatchet as a means of incapacitating the boys??.. imo it seems as tho itd be the absolute last way a parent would choose if in such a position[which it goes without saying that the situation itself is unfathomable] but i believe most understand what im trying to say here..

It is brutal, depraved, and would strike immense fear and terror in those few possible moments of comprehension[especially for Braden who witnessed Charrlie being hatcheted].. This for me does in no way convey that which the Powell's are claiming for the deaths to be..as in somehow done out of immense love for his sons...

I hope I am being clear enough in what is im attempting to say/ask.. What i mean is that the chopping with a hatchet was most likely done to keep the boys from escaping, period.. imo there isno bs like he did to alleviate the suffering ofbeing burned to death...bull****!.. it was done so those boyscouldnt attempt to run for their lives.. my question is why not blunt force trauma????

I believe i am not alone in that the act of his chpping their necks with a hatchet/ax is what takes the entire murder to a whole new level of horrific[and when you add in the "I've got a surprise for you, charlie"..well that just is without words].. so, again my question of why would one not choose a much less depraved and horrific and yes, even less terrifying for the boys in those few moments of comprehension[and yes i absolutelybelieve that Bradens seeing Charlie struck on the back of his head, tho still traumatic, but by no means even comparableto thehorror of seeing his brother chopped in the neck with a hatchet/ax which would cause immediate and immense amount of blood].. that isjust the utmost of horrific, striking immense terror, that imo would not be anywherenear that level in seeing him whopped to the back of his head, blunt force trauma , and very likely causing unconsciousness thereby leaving them to not feel the horrific pain of being burned alive.. whereas the method chosen by josh very likely did not cause IMMEDIATE UNCONSCIOUSNESS, thereby leaving those precious boys to not only experience the horrific terror of thechoppingof their necks withahatchet/ax[especially Braden]..but then to still have to experience the excruciating pain of being burned alive!!

MY GOD IT IS TRULY ONLY THE ACTIONS OF WHICH A TRUE MONSTER WOULD BE CAPABLE OF INFLICTING!!

SO WHY WOULD HE HAVE CHOSEN SUCH DEPRAVITY OVER SOMETHING THAT NOT ONLY WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE IN TERMS OF INCAPACITATING AS WELL AS ALEVIATING THE TERROR AND PAIN OBURNING ALIVE?

Because he was a psychopath. He cared for no one but himself.

 

[dovebar]

Poor Lynn R. Knight was a blip on the screen. KG and JPG didn't even know about him because Kirk told websleuthers once that SP's mother had only been married twice, but we found three marriage licenses!

Anyhow, no clue what happened to him -- he died 3 months after marriage at age 48, when SP would have been 13. Although Lynn's parents also died young from health-related causes, at 40 and 42 (I did find their death certs, but not Lynn's). Lynn's grave does say "beloved husband and father" though, and I've found no evidence that he had any children of his own.

So there is a known cause of death for the parents but not for him?

 

[Sulamith]

I agree 1000%. He was exhibiting control and by putting Susan's pictures around the room he was, in his mind, making her suffer as well, his actions were cruel. I thought that I read that he was found with a melted gas can between his legs. I'm wondering about the placement of his body with the boys.

Just throwing my thoughts out here. I don't see how displaying Susan's pictures would be making her suffer when he killed his kids. If she were dead, she could not suffer. She could only suffer if she were alive and then saw the destruction and death he caused. I have seen plenty of murder cases where "fathers" have murdered their children to get back at their wives/girlfriends, but those ladies were living. WARNING...here is one:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/jeremiah-lee-wright-disabled-son_n_927169.html I really do not see how Josh was exhibiting control over Susan when she was already gone. I could see it if she were alive when he murdered, but not when she was dead.??

 

[RT51]

Her pictures were symbolic, i.e. her "eyes" were watching his horrible deeds.

 

[passionflower]

I agree 1000%. He was exhibiting control and by putting Susan's pictures around the room he was, in his mind, making her suffer as well, his actions were cruel. I thought that I read that he was found with a melted gas can between his legs. I'm wondering about the placement of his body with the boys.

there was a link and a animated photo of the placement of the bodies by red X's.

They were in the center of the room and IIRC
this is how it looked:

X (him) furthur away sons closer together X X

 

[Dal Gal]

So there is a known cause of death for the parents but not for him?

"Known" in the sense that I have seen an image of the parents' death certs with their COD, but haven't seen his. Five years had passed since the SP's dad and grandparents took the kids from their mother before she remarried, and the dad was already remarried, so I don't see any sort of "crime of passion" occurring.

 

[Just K]

About the "surprise": Just a random yet ugly thought crossed my mind. Perhaps JP had set the living room up to look like a campsite and had wood or pretended to chop wood in the center between the boys. Then he hits them with the ax/hatchet and sets the fire.

 

[ThoughtFox]

The martyr role is the mask of manipulation commonly worn by psychopaths. They seek pity as a means to fool their target into believing they are harmless when in fact they are extremely dangerous. Beware!

And when someone has no compassion for others, but lots of self-pity, to me that is almost the definition of Narcissism. It's hard to believe sometimes that a Narcissist can whine and complain about their lot in life and expect everyone who hears to sympathize and help them, but they can turn around and be totally callous, cruel and indifferent to other people - even those they profess to love. (Can you tell I've known a few of these types?) I think Josh and his father are both textbook cases of Narcissism with sociopathy.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

And when someone has no compassion for others, but lots of self-pity, to me that is almost the definition of Narcissism. It's hard to believe sometimes that a Narcissist can whine and complain about their lot in life and expect everyone who hears to sympathize and help them, but they can turn around and be totally callous, cruel and indifferent to other people - even those they profess to love. (Can you tell I've known a few of these types?) I think Josh and his father are both textbook cases of Narcissism with sociopathy.

It IS hard to believe but I can tell you have known these types, ThoughtFox! You just described my ex. Ya learn to spot em after living with em, don't you?

Yep JP and SP are peas in a pod, IMO.

wm

 

[DLT88]

Has it been determined which one he hit first? Maybe, him hitting B was the surprise for C.

Their last thoughts of daddy, what a shame.

You may be right about that order. I hadn't thought of that.

I was guessing, he hit Charlie first after Charlie turned in his direction and then JP had the momentum going and quickly turned to hit Braden (so that Braden wouldn't see and try and escape) but since Braden is shorter than Charlie, JP got his head by mistake first. That's when I think Braden cried out and the SW thought he was in pain from stubbing his foot again. ??(I have issues with that part that JP maybe stomped on Braden's foot the last time versus that 'he stubbed it' on purpose to make it look like his water burn injury at the Coxes was more serious than it was, but I digress.) Then I think he quickly went and got Braden in the neck.

 

[DLT88]

PLZ EXCUSE THE RIDICULOUS ERRORS THIS TOUCHPAD SUCKS!



A Question I have that there they may not be an answer for is my wanting to know what exactlywould have motivated Josh to use the depraved method of chopping the boys necks witha hatchet as a means of incapacitating the boys??.. imo it seems as tho itd be the absolute last way a parent would choose if in such a position[which it goes without saying that the situation itself is unfathomable] but i believe most understand what im trying to say here..

It is brutal, depraved, and would strike immense fear and terror in those few possible moments of comprehension[especially for Braden who witnessed Charrlie being hatcheted].. This for me does in no way convey that which the Powell's are claiming for the deaths to be..as in somehow done out of immense love for his sons...

I hope I am being clear enough in what is im attempting to say/ask.. What i mean is that the chopping with a hatchet was most likely done to keep the boys from escaping, period.. imo there isno bs like he did to alleviate the suffering ofbeing burned to death...bull****!.. it was done so those boyscouldnt attempt to run for their lives.. my question is why not blunt force trauma????

I believe i am not alone in that the act of his chpping their necks with a hatchet/ax is what takes the entire murder to a whole new level of horrific[and when you add in the "I've got a surprise for you, charlie"..well that just is without words].. so, again my question of why would one not choose a much less depraved and horrific and yes, even less terrifying for the boys in those few moments of comprehension[and yes i absolutelybelieve that Bradens seeing Charlie struck on the back of his head, tho still traumatic, but by no means even comparableto thehorror of seeing his brother chopped in the neck with a hatchet/ax which would cause immediate and immense amount of blood].. that isjust the utmost of horrific, striking immense terror, that imo would not be anywherenear that level in seeing him whopped to the back of his head, blunt force trauma , and very likely causing unconsciousness thereby leaving them to not feel the horrific pain of being burned alive.. whereas the method chosen by josh very likely did not cause IMMEDIATE UNCONSCIOUSNESS, thereby leaving those precious boys to not only experience the horrific terror of thechoppingof their necks withahatchet/ax[especially Braden]..but then to still have to experience the excruciating pain of being burned alive!!

MY GOD IT IS TRULY ONLY THE ACTIONS OF WHICH A TRUE MONSTER WOULD BE CAPABLE OF INFLICTING!!

SO WHY WOULD HE HAVE CHOSEN SUCH DEPRAVITY OVER SOMETHING THAT NOT ONLY WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE IN TERMS OF INCAPACITATING AS WELL AS ALEVIATING THE TERROR AND PAIN OBURNING ALIVE?

Oh, Smooth Operator, all of this part is torturing me as well. How COULD anyone pick such a way? Reading statements from other murder cases from DA attorneys, they say for a murderer to choose a knife or anything like a hatchet to do a murder shows that the killer wanted it to be personal. And the rage was personal. I suppose his family doesn't want to face the truth but JP never loved those boys and never loved Susan and never loved ANYONE else. Just like that Diane Downs who could point a gun a point blank range and shoot her trembling children in the car like that, JP must have had a disconnect. Like with Downs, the children were more like younger siblings to them --- and like her, JP owned them. They were THINGS. One would have to be totally disconnected from their heart center to do something like this and in this way. DEPRAVED. I even think, possessed, if there is such a thing. PURE EVIL is what that man was.

 

[Vhead]

I hope I'm doing this right. Newer to WS.. Sorry mods if I'm posting in wrong area..

Here's a link to an article regarding Josh Powell's psych evals

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/02/21/documents-released-josh-powell-contain-disturbing-details


Sent from my iPhone

 

[TexasCharm]

Just throwing my thoughts out here. I don't see how displaying Susan's pictures would be making her suffer when he killed his kids. If she were dead, she could not suffer. She could only suffer if she were alive and then saw the destruction and death he caused. I have seen plenty of murder cases where "fathers" have murdered their children to get back at their wives/girlfriends, but those ladies were living. WARNING...here is one:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/jeremiah-lee-wright-disabled-son_n_927169.html I really do not see how Josh was exhibiting control over Susan when she was already gone. I could see it if she were alive when he murdered, but not when she was dead.??

Ah, but it was yet another manipulation. You see, he was operating on the concocted story that Susan was still alive and he was being wrongly accused of her death .. and played that victim role to the very end. Even down to the sickness of putting her pictures all over the wall s.. like he was either pining after her, or punishing her.

imo

 

[Just K]

Just for the purposes of future prevention, it is important to study this monster. His facial expressions, affect and the look in his eyes were often not in agreement. These things never seemed to accurately reflect his words either. The psych report noted that but it might have needed to be HIGHLIGHTED. These "quirks" were important clues to his evilness. Clinicians, judges, lawyers, etc need to be reminded to look closely for these telltale signs and to weigh the words with the affect and the non-verbal signs of communication.

Perhaps more important than any of the above or in conjunction with the above is the whole martyr syndrome. The martyr syndrome and his self-righteousness and his inability to find even the most minimal or normal faults in himself...the type of fault that most of us are able to admit, was a very important feature in his skewed personality.

 

[DLT88]

Just for the purposes of future prevention, it is important to study this monster. His facial expressions, affect and the look in his eyes were often not in agreement. These things never seemed to accurately reflect his words either. The psych report noted that but it might have needed to be HIGHLIGHTED. These "quirks" were important clues to his evilness. Clinicians, judges, lawyers, etc need to be reminded to look closely for these telltale signs and to weigh the words with the affect and the non-verbal signs of communication.

I totally agree. I've read so much in the last couple weeks about JP's 'wonderful' behavior with his sons. He also got Susan a blanket to keep he warm IN FRONT OF HER FRIEND the day before 'that night'. People like him are actors on a stage and are shrewd knowing full well what to do and say to make themselves appear as loving. Con artists are master manipulators and that's what JP did to Child Services. If only they had studied him on so many other levels......

 

[Just K]

Even his "goodbye" messages were insincere and selfish. He said he couldn't live without his boys but did he even care that they could have thrived without him. No, he didn't give a hoot in H!

 

[butwhatif?]

34 page report here:

http://blog.thenewstribune.com/crime/2012/02/17/psychologists-report-on-josh-powell-released/