New page added to SusanPowell.org

[hollyblue]

The timeline you linked to has had puzzled me since it came out. To me it clearly shows some panic going on...Horrible things were going through the minds of those folks involved, and I dont mean that in a bad way. If the keys were there when the police broke out the window(I have allways wondered if LE was at the house until josh returned, they had made the house unsecure) then josh left with LE shortly after fixing the window, to WVPD for questioning returning sometime around 10pm IIRC...the next morning while getting dressed his sister (from Susanpowell.org.) is cleaning and moving furniture and asking questions about stains. If the keys were removed from the house by Jennifer and later returned to LE as evidence...then that same person makes comments that it was her that pressed LE for a search...where would that put all of the evidenice collected from the house?

A good question would be when were the keys returned?

Sorry SJ, I couldn't follow your thoughts in that post. ? Are you saying Jennifer removed the keys from the house after going in with LE or when? Jen didn't have a set of keys prior...that we know of...

1. I think the main questions are: Did LE, in fact, find Susan's keys in the house when they entered? and Did DC have a key to the house? Both very relevant and at this time unconfirmed.

2. If DC did have a set of keys, then she didn't bother to use them or tell LE, wasn't there to use them, or JP & SP are mistaken about it. If DC DID have a set of keys, then that can open many cans of worms.

But, apparently DC went over to the house early on and banged on the door, got no answer and then called Jen and Terri....it was 2 hours between the time she went to the house and LE was finally called. Why call her father in WA if they were thinking of CO2 poisoning? What could he do? Why not call LE then and there? Also...where was the BFF friend Kiirsi at this time? No one called her for info or concerns? I think THAT's strange.

I just know that LE was there when JP and the children returned. Whether they were there all day or secured the house IDK. What I do know, is that the search for the house did not take place until Wed and other people besides LE and the family were in the house. Not sure when JP fixed the window or if he stayed there or over at Jen's Mon. and Tues. night until the search, but it does seems there would be a possibility of tampering in the house before that search.....also...the thought of prior to LE being called if anyone else had a key-- plus the possible solution for the house being locked with Susan exiting. Sooo many Q & A's around that little key.

Just after posting the above, I'm beginning to think no one will have the answers.

 

[hollyblue]

Biljanik gave these two comparisons:

A “Secrecy Order” can be issued by a judge or the DA’s office, and is used to instruct law enforcement officers to not discuss the case with the public. A judge would typically want a secrecy order in place in cases where there is an ongoing investigation.

A “Gag Order” is issued by a judge informing participants of a court proceeding that they cannot discuss a case with the public.
Different circumstances, same basic meaning.

“This is an ongoing investigation,” Biljanik said. “We do not want anyone discussing the specifics of the case.”

“Other than search warrants in this case, there is no criminal case here. We have not been given a case to screen, there is no criminal investigation at this point,” Biljanik said.

"I'm glad you took the time to call about this," Biljanik said.

When asked how the family feels about police having to keep information close, and if the family knows more than the public, Gifford said, “The family continues to have faith in the efforts of WVCPD. You're right - we know more about the investigation than the public. We have asked hundreds of questions of them and we are comfortable with their responses.”
http://www.examiner.com/headlines-in-seattle/susan-cox-powell-gag-order-or-secrecy-order-district-attorney-says-it-s-a-play-on-words

 

[SugarJames]

Biljanik gave these two comparisons:

A “Secrecy Order” can be issued by a judge or the DA’s office, and is used to instruct law enforcement officers to not discuss the case with the public. A judge would typically want a secrecy order in place in cases where there is an ongoing investigation.

A “Gag Order” is issued by a judge informing participants of a court proceeding that they cannot discuss a case with the public.
Different circumstances, same basic meaning.

“This is an ongoing investigation,” Biljanik said. “We do not want anyone discussing the specifics of the case.”

“Other than search warrants in this case, there is no criminal case here. We have not been given a case to screen, there is no criminal investigation at this point,” Biljanik said.

"I'm glad you took the time to call about this," Biljanik said.

When asked how the family feels about police having to keep information close, and if the family knows more than the public, Gifford said, “The family continues to have faith in the efforts of WVCPD. You're right - we know more about the investigation than the public. We have asked hundreds of questions of them and we are comfortable with their responses.”
http://www.examiner.com/headlines-in-seattle/susan-cox-powell-gag-order-or-secrecy-order-district-attorney-says-it-s-a-play-on-words

The DA qoute pretty much sums up my view of the case from the begining...thats why we all are trying so deperately to find that one clue that can give us the answer. Not just answers that are manufactured to make us feel better about the whole situation.

ps:comment qoute"I am an idoit"

 

[laf78]

I really don't see that much "snarkiness" happening here. It does seem that because so much time has passed, many people have forgotten things that were brought up early in the investigation, and were either confirmed or denied months ago.

I too, can't imagine the day care provider standing there with LE and allowing them to break a window (you can see that the window is secured with plywood in some of the first footage of interviews with Josh in front of the Powell home in WVC) if she had a key. It seems that she would have volunteered the key, or maybe wouldn't have even called LE if she had permission to enter the Powell home (which possession of a key would imply). I have had several day care providers for my children and have never given one of them a key to my home. I don't know why anyone would. Someone may have several keys to their home in addition to the ones used by their immediate family, but I would think they would not hand them out indiscriminately; they'd want them in the possession of very close friends or family members that could be trusted not to take advantage.

 

[kimbob]

It's easier for me to direct my comments or answers to the person who posed the question. Sorry if that's against the rules. I don't often have time to pick out a specific question in a post, highlight it, etc. so if I respond directly to a person, it's not because I'm being "snarky". I'm saving time.
Snarkiness was certainly not my intention in any posts.

 

[nosylla]

Sorry SJ, I couldn't follow your thoughts in that post. ? Are you saying Jennifer removed the keys from the house after going in with LE or when? Jen didn't have a set of keys prior...that we know of...

1. I think the main questions are: Did LE, in fact, find Susan's keys in the house when they entered? and Did DC have a key to the house? Both very relevant and at this time unconfirmed.

2. If DC did have a set of keys, then she didn't bother to use them or tell LE, wasn't there to use them, or JP & SP are mistaken about it. If DC DID have a set of keys, then that can open many cans of worms.

But, apparently DC went over to the house early on and banged on the door, got no answer and then called Jen and Terri....it was 2 hours between the time she went to the house and LE was finally called. Why call her father in WA if they were thinking of CO2 poisoning? What could he do? Why not call LE then and there? Also...where was the BFF friend Kiirsi at this time? No one called her for info or concerns? I think THAT's strange.

I just know that LE was there when JP and the children returned. Whether they were there all day or secured the house IDK. What I do know, is that the search for the house did not take place until Wed and other people besides LE and the family were in the house. Not sure when JP fixed the window or if he stayed there or over at Jen's Mon. and Tues. night until the search, but it does seems there would be a possibility of tampering in the house before that search.....also...the thought of prior to LE being called if anyone else had a key-- plus the possible solution for the house being locked with Susan exiting. Sooo many Q & A's around that little key.

Just after posting the above, I'm beginning to think no one will have the answers.

I never thought of that. (The BF not being called) But I have read on the FB pages, that the babysitter, DC, did NOT have a key to the home. I doubt JP would allow anyone to have a key. I am surprised Susan had one. The way he controlled her. But the things brought up here, really open a new door to things I never thought of.

 

[laytonian]

I never thought of that. (The BF not being called) But I have read on the FB pages, that the babysitter, DC, did NOT have a key to the home. I doubt JP would allow anyone to have a key. I am surprised Susan had one. The way he controlled her. But the things brought up here, really open a new door to things I never thought of.

1 - The family's one car was gone. It was already known that neither Josh nor Susan was at work, and that the children weren't at daycare. The logical conclusion is that they all went somewhere, together. Which turned out to be true, in some respect.

2 - Based on that logical conclusion, LE's not going to respond unless an emergency is declared. Ergo, carbon monoxide is mentioned in the 911 call.

3 - It's untrue that BFF was not called. Jennifer Graves called BFF on Monday morning, Dec 7th, 2009. It's been discussed here on Websleuths frequently, and is an accepted fact. Source: Websleuths, Jan 2010.

4 - Daycare person may have been given a key, at one time, for one special purpose. Since it doesn't make sense for a daycare person to have a key to someone else's home in a situation related to the daycare, it's likely the key was for another purpose - and was later returned.

 

[hollyblue]

With both of them not showing up for work with no prior notice of being absent, nor the daycare provider, I think LE would have done a welfare check just on that alone. Especially with toddlers involved. LE did a welfare check in the Brittany Mae Smith case on a Sunday, but they never entered the home---thinking the family could just be away. But she never called in to work!! One of her coworkers with a key, found the dead mother on Monday after she again did not show up for work.

My speculation was on Kiirsi not being called when everything became known. At 8 vs 10:30. The kids were normally dropped off at 6:30, DC called their places of employment at 7 and 8. That's 2 1/2 hours of obvious worry and 4 hours from a speculation.

The key question is still up in the air...I hope LE knows the answer. I too would be hestitant to enter someone's house..even with a key...you don't know what you would find...perps could still be there and you walk in and become a victim also. Call LE...give them the key and let them do the investigating. IMO.

Kiirsi thinks someone had something to do with SP's disappearance...someone abducting her. If so, how did they get in? Did they have a key since the house was locked when LE arrived or is she saying that SP was with JP in the van and then abducted? I ask on another forum and was told she suspects Papa P, but we have never heard her full theory. Just that she knows things she can't talk about. ??

 

[hollyblue]

I never thought of that. (The BF not being called) But I have read on the FB pages, that the babysitter, DC, did NOT have a key to the home. I doubt JP would allow anyone to have a key. I am surprised Susan had one. The way he controlled her. But the things brought up here, really open a new door to things I never thought of.

If you give your key to anyone...you really have no idea who might have a copy. I'll give "Susie" a key so she can take care of my plants and pets while I'm gone. Susie gets busy and Nicole volunteers to run that errand for her. Bingo. Chance of copy. Same with giving auto repair shops your keys...even while your "waiting" in the wings. Takes 5 minutes to get a copy done. Social function at someone's house and your keys are in the pocket of your coat or purse...safely in the bedroom....NOT. Just think about all the opportunites where you and your keys have been "separated" for 30 minutes or more..with other people around for the opportunity.

 

[gwenabob]

1 - The family's one car was gone. It was already known that neither Josh nor Susan was at work, and that the children weren't at daycare. The logical conclusion is that they all went somewhere, together. Which turned out to be true, in some respect.

2 - Based on that logical conclusion, LE's not going to respond unless an emergency is declared. Ergo, carbon monoxide is mentioned in the 911 call.

3 - It's untrue that BFF was not called. Jennifer Graves called BFF on Monday morning, Dec 7th, 2009. It's been discussed here on Websleuths frequently, and is an accepted fact. Source: Websleuths, Jan 2010.

4 - Daycare person may have been given a key, at one time, for one special purpose. Since it doesn't make sense for a daycare person to have a key to someone else's home in a situation related to the daycare, it's likely the key was for another purpose - and was later returned.

Thanks for your good thoughts. I just wanted to expound on them a little.

Re: 1. I believe there are no windows to the garage, so it would be impossible to peek in and see if the car was there or not. Since there were no tire tracks in the snow in the driveway, it was reasonable to believe the car never left the garage that morning (and it had not!), so carbon monoxide poisoning was a reasonable explanation/concern.

Re: 4. Does anyone know if the daycare provider was also a personal friend? We think of her as ONLY the daycare person. What if she was also a friend from church? There might have been other reasons for her to have a key beyond her childcare duties. Maybe she was the mail/pet/plant person when they went out of town? I have no idea, just throwing it out there.

 

[laytonian]

Thanks for your good thoughts. I just wanted to expound on them a little.

Re: 1. I believe there are no windows to the garage, so it would be impossible to peek in and see if the car was there or not. Since there were no tire tracks in the snow in the driveway, it was reasonable to believe the car never left the garage that morning (and it had not!), so carbon monoxide poisoning was a reasonable explanation/concern.

Very good point, one I'd not thought of. Although building codes in our town require a outside exit (window or "man door"), it's obviously not true everywhere.

Re: 4. Does anyone know if the daycare provider was also a personal friend? We think of her as ONLY the daycare person. What if she was also a friend from church? There might have been other reasons for her to have a key beyond her childcare duties. Maybe she was the mail/pet/plant person when they went out of town? I have no idea, just throwing it out there.

I kinda think there was *some* kind of relationship or shared knowledge between her and Susan, because JP/SP threw fuel at her on their website (the accusations about her being "a man-hater", etc).

 

[kimbob]

Daycare lady was a friend of Susan's from what I've read. Susan would go to the daycare and help paint and do other projects with her, especially when Josh ran low on money and couldn't or wouldn't pay the bill for child care. I believe I read that the day care lady even picked the kids up on occasion, and let Susan or Josh bring them in very early sometimes. They evidently became friends through the course of the kids staying with her.
Day care lady went into a lot of depth about their relationship on the WISP page of Facebook several months ago.

 

[kimbob]

Also, regarding the phone call to Susan's parents before calling the police, daycare lady was probably just checking to see if Josh and/or Susan had been in touch with the parents before she called the police. For all she knew at the time, they could have received word that one of Susan's parents was sick and they rushed to Wa. to be with them. Or in the case of one of the kids being sick enough for a late night emergency room visit, the whole family could have potentially gone and could have called her parents to let them know what was happening.
If it were me, I'd call everyone I could think of before calling the police in order not to have them come out unnecessarily. So I don't find it unusual that daycare lady would call as many family members as she could before contacting the police.

 

[laf78]

It was my understanding the the daycare provider was a friend of Susan's. She provided care in her home, and Susan would sometimes trade daycare with hair cutting and styling for the daycare provider. On the F & F facebook page several months ago, she mentioned that she and Susan were pretty close and spent a lot of time talking and Susan confided some of the problems she was dealing with concerning her marriage. This is why Josh lashed out about her. She knows things he doesn't want known by the general public. I doubt that she had a key, it sounds more like someone is just throwing possibilities out there.

 

[hollyblue]

Also, regarding the phone call to Susan's parents before calling the police, daycare lady was probably just checking to see if Josh and/or Susan had been in touch with the parents before she called the police. For all she knew at the time, they could have received word that one of Susan's parents was sick and they rushed to Wa. to be with them. Or in the case of one of the kids being sick enough for a late night emergency room visit, the whole family could have potentially gone and could have called her parents to let them know what was happening.
If it were me, I'd call everyone I could think of before calling the police in order not to have them come out unnecessarily. So I don't find it unusual that daycare lady would call as many family members as she could before contacting the police.

As close as she was to Jennifer, I think she would have called her and Kirk. imo

 

[diphi]

Also, regarding the phone call to Susan's parents before calling the police, daycare lady was probably just checking to see if Josh and/or Susan had been in touch with the parents before she called the police. For all she knew at the time, they could have received word that one of Susan's parents was sick and they rushed to Wa. to be with them. Or in the case of one of the kids being sick enough for a late night emergency room visit, the whole family could have potentially gone and could have called her parents to let them know what was happening.
If it were me, I'd call everyone I could think of before calling the police in order not to have them come out unnecessarily. So I don't find it unusual that daycare lady would call as many family members as she could before contacting the police.

I can see calling everyone before calling the police. Typically, you just don't want to get the police involved if they don't need to be.

However, and let's see now, it's been some time since I had a child in daycare, but don't you usually fill out an emergency contact form when you enroll your child? I would expect that a professional daycare provider would refer to that form in order to make the appropriate contact as requested by the parent.

Would Susan have put her parents name as the contact persons even though they were in another city? IDK, but who else would she trust - JP? Nah, I don't think so. What about someone else? Personally, I'd probably stick to family members, if I could.

But, would she really think an emergency contact would be needed? I've filled out those kinds of forms before without really thinking through the implications and the "what ifs".

Just my rambling thoughts...:twocents:

 

[KBH5]

The daycare provider has stated in interviews that Jennifer Graves and Teri Powell were her first emergency contacts, so she followed procedure and called them when she couldn't get Josh and Susan on their cell phones and there was no answer at the house.

 

[kimbob]

That's correct....Daycare Lady has said that Josh's mother and sister were on the emergency contact list. The last time I filled one out for a little bitty kid there were spots for two names but I'm in a different state. Sometimes they'll ask for a non-related person. It just depends on what sort of form she uses.

The daycare lady is to be commended for continuing to make calls because without her diligence, who knows how long it would have been before Josh actually reported her missing. I think the daycare lady foiled whatever plans he might have been attempting to dream up.

He sure took his sweet time getting to the house when he was finally contacted.

 

[LCoastMom]

Am I mistaken or is it not a crime to provide false information to LE regarding an on-going investigation? There was no other purpose behind the carp in those nine pages - besides turning attention away from the real POI in this case.

The abuse of Susan Cox Powell and family members is so blatant it is sickening (It was bad enough early on that it was nothing but self serving rhetoric of JP and defamation of Susan).

The Powell's (particularly SP and JP) should be ashamed of themselves - sadly people who would post the types of things they have put up for public consumption, care nothing of anyone but themselves. The site is proof that there is true evil behind Susan Powell's disappearance... waiting for justice is so very hard.

ALL MOO.

 

[diphi]

Am I mistaken or is it not a crime to provide false information to LE regarding an on-going investigation? There was no other purpose behind the carp in those nine pages - besides turning attention away from the real POI in this case.

The abuse of Susan Cox Powell and family members is so blatant it is sickening (It was bad enough early on that it was nothing but self serving rhetoric of JP and defamation of Susan).

The Powell's (particularly SP and JP) should be ashamed of themselves - sadly people who would post the types of things they have put up for public consumption, care nothing of anyone but themselves. The site is proof that there is true evil behind Susan Powell's disappearance... waiting for justice is so very hard.

ALL MOO.

All MOO, too and slightly O/T.

In the Zahra Baker case her stepmother, Elisa Baker, was arrested for, among other things not related to the case, Obstructing Justice. Long story but basically she wrote a false ransom note. That's not similar to this case but an illustration that you can be arrested for lying to the police.

So, no, I don't think you're mistaken. I really can't fathom the game being played right now - is LE engaged?