New Tracey Documentary

[Blazeboy3]

So,

it is correct to say that no one formerly investigated and swabbed for DNA can be assumed to be the intruder any longer? Right? If Helgoth's or Santa's or anyone else's DNA is not a match for what they entered into CODIS, then they are just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic?

IMO

Yup...that's how I see it! IMHO...the bigger the lie and the longer you tell/believe it... it shall come to pass (in THEIR minds, of course; all is energy and energy follows THOUGHT. The R's are ... :chicken: ).

 

[SisterSocks]

Yup...that's how I see it! IMHO...the bigger the lie and the longer you tell/believe it... it shall come to pass (in THEIR minds, of course; all is energy and energy follows THOUGHT. The R's are ... :chicken: ).

I don't think the Ramsey's are chicken . It would be redundant now that John is running for office -yanno?

 

[vicktor]

.
Cyril Wecht hit it right on the head. He said the ABSENCE of some "intruder's"
DNA all OVER the crime scene is a huge problem for those who insist the Ramseys are innocent of this crime.

There are many unsolved murder cases out there where someone broke it and killed an occupant, and didn't leave any evidence. There are unsolved cases of rape and murder where only semen evidence was left and the perp was never caught because the DNA wasn't on file or they could find no other connection. If the perp wore gloves and chose not to leave semen , what other evidence would there be?

 

[Jayelles]

According to jameson, it will be shown on 15th June although it isn't beng advertised here yet. She was wrong with the Tracey II documentary date - it showed a week after she said it would.

Anyway, I am watching the media with interest. There is usually some kind of pre-showing media coverage of these documentaries and it will be interesting to see how this particular documentary will be presented.

 

[Britt]

There are many unsolved murder cases out there where someone broke it and killed an occupant, and didn't leave any evidence.

Please cite one with elements of staging and a phony or foiled kidnapping with both the body and a ransom note on the premises.

 

[Dad]

There are many unsolved murder cases out there where someone broke it and killed an occupant, and didn't leave any evidence. There are unsolved cases of rape and murder where only semen evidence was left and the perp was never caught because the DNA wasn't on file or they could find no other connection. If the perp wore gloves and chose not to leave semen , what other evidence would there be?

One hair would do it, or shoe print, easy enough, go back to the most simple conclusion.

 

[Jayelles]

Unlike Candy who thinks that Helgoth should be given "a pass" because he committed suicide - I'm all ears. I can't wait to hear Tracey's case against Helgoth and I do hope he presents it in a fair and balanced way. Could be embarassing if he doesn't.

 

[TLynn]

IMO there was evidence left - it just doesn't point to a stranger intruder.

 

[Blazeboy3]

I don't think the Ramsey's are chicken . It would be redundant now that John is running for office -yanno?

Interesting thought!~? :slap:; FWIW FYI here's what's "out there" as far as info:
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=redundant
One entry found for redundant.
Main Entry: re·dun·dant Pronunciation: -d&nt Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin redundant-, redundans, present participle of redundare to overflow -- more at REDOUND

1 a : exceeding what is necessary or normal : SUPERFLUOUS b : characterized by or containing an excess; specifically : using more words than necessary c : characterized by similarity or repetition <a group of particularly redundant brick buildings> d chiefly British : no longer needed for a job and hence laid off

2 : PROFUSE, LAVISH

3 : serving as a duplicate for preventing failure of an entire system (as a spacecraft) upon failure of a single component
- re·dun·dant·ly adverb



... ya know I know that you know that I know...ya know?LOL :doh:

 

[vicktor]

Please cite one with elements of staging and a phony or foiled kidnapping with both the body and a ransom note on the premises.

Its possible that such a case exists, although I have never heard or read about one. But isn't the counterstatement that LE has no record of parents killing their young daughter using a garotte + blow to the head also true?

 

[Britt]

Its possible that such a case exists, although I have never heard or read about one. But isn't the counterstatement that LE has no record of parents killing their young daughter using a garotte + blow to the head also true?

The two things aren't comparable because "garrote" is a characterization, possibly a staged prop, and there are certainly cases of staged crimes. (And regardless who the perp was, we know this was a staged crime because the "kidnapping" was phony.)

The body, however, was real. Its location was real. And the existence of the note was real. Those things are not open to interpretation, as is the "garrote."

 

[Ivy]

What makes the JonBenet case truly unique (and hinky) is the presence of both a ransom note AND the victim's body.

The note was essential. It was the only "evidence" of an intruder the Ramseys could conjure up. (If they could have figured out how to quickly plant someone's DNA or other phony evidence, I believe they would have done it considering how many innocent people they later threw under the bus.)

The intruder scenario the note gave birth to would have been more believable if the Ramseys had removed the body from the house, but for any of a number of reasons, they apparently decided against it. I think the note was probably written before they made that decision, which could explain some of the bizarre threats in the note, including the "proper burial" one. Time was of the essence, so it was too late to rewrite it.

imo

 

[Cherokee]

What makes the JonBenet case truly unique (and hinky) is the presence of both a ransom note AND the victim's body.

The note was essential. It was the only "evidence" of an intruder the Ramseys could conjure up ...

Exactly. Without that "ransom note," suspicion would have fallen on the Ramseys IMMEDIATELY, and they wouldn't have had time to "lawyer up" and refuse to cooperate with the investigation.

Now, let's see ... who needed the ransom note more ... the Ramseys or a kidnapper who didn't kidnap?

Answer: The Ramseys.

A kidnapper, or ANY intruder for that matter, DID NOT NEED to leave a ransom note ... much less a three page diatribe advising John the Fat Cat to be rested. All they had to do was snatch JonBenet from her bed, and call the Ramseys later with the ransom demand.

A kidnapper doesn't leave fake ransom notes ...

A pedophile doesn't leave fake ransom notes ...

A murderer doesn't leave fake ransom notes ...

There is NO REASON to do so.

The Ramseys HAD a reason, a darn good reason ... to save their necks.



IMO

 

[solosamtheman]

Please cite one with elements of staging and a phony or foiled kidnapping with both the body and a ransom note on the premises.

lets play a game of chance.....In a game of odds one must ask himself, "what are the chances?". So let's go. What are the chances of someone breaking into your home and have not one, but several characteristics of your own hand writing? What are the chaces that the same guy would know his way around your home? What are the chances that he would know where to find everything he needed to kill a person in your home and stage it to be a kidnapping? And, that he would know about such amounts as 118,000? Then he would also have to know that your dog wouldn't be there and remember to turn off the light on the corner of the house that has been on every night for the last 3 years. Then he would have to only leave evidence at the site where the body was found and no where else in the house. Then he would have to know the accoustics of the house to know that when the scream came nobody would hear it and he would have time to fashion a crude garrot which some continue to claim is intricate and proffesional to try to disguise the motive of the killing. And take the time to entwine fibers of someone at the home into the cord. If you think about it this way you can find many more odd co-incidents that will raise the odds to something of an astronomical level. Then there is the chance of both parents convieniently contaminating the body with their own fibers and DNA with their outburst of emotion after JR finds the body in a room that someone just looked in and said the door was stuck shut from a previous painting job. If the authorities hadn't screwed this up to level of doing the job of complete idiots, I think our "intruder" would have already been in jail quite a few years by now and might even be next in line for the injection table. Sometimes a dead person can be quite a good witness and even though the Ramseys were familiar with crime scene investigation and did a not so good job of covering it up they had a little help from their freinds. But I believe in the end, that an innocent little girl will still get a little help from HER freinds. And we will all know the truth because , the truth is it's own witness and needs no help from others.

 

[vicktor]

To reply to some of the probabilities mentioned by SoloSam,

One suspect had very similar handwriting to the note. It was at least as good as Patsy's, to the untrained eye. Grammar and spelling were also similar.

The intruder likely broke in after the Ramseys had left for the evening. He could find his way around enough to make a plan. Just luck on the dog. Several things could have happened about the outside light.

The intruder brought items that he used, except for the pen and paper. Evidence of a finely shredded paper bag was found on JB's bed and elsewhere. This doesn't make much sense coming from the Ramseys, but fits a homeless intruder well.

With a little poking around he may have been able to find some of John's papers, or check stubs. Or... he may have read the book by an FBI profiler that featured 118 cases. Its curious that the note writer specifically cautioned against contacting the FBI as if he knew it would come into play.
People break into houses all the time and commit crimes and don';t leave any evidence. Maybe a few scalp hairs, mixed in with everybody's.

The intruder didn't know JB would scream, but common sense indicates it would be hard to hear 2 and 3 floors up.

The fibers in around the knot could be from transference when Patsy knelt over JB. If, as you pointed out, the body was found early by LE, the fiber questions could have been eliminated. Seeing fibers there does seem unusual, but not every piece of evidence is going to make perfect sense.

Yes, the probability that someone could break in, and not be discovered and commit the crime is very low, but its greater, IMO, than any scenario what involve the Ramseys. Just look at how this murder compares to the thousands of murders that have occured since. There are no doubt 100s, and 100s of unsolved murders, but very few with all the unusual and provocative elements of this one.

 

[Ivy]

Originally posted by victor
Yes, the probability that someone could break in, and not be discovered and commit the crime is very low, but its greater, IMO, than any scenario what involve the Ramseys. Just look at how this murder compares to the thousands of murders that have occured since. There are no doubt 100s, and 100s of unsolved murders, but very few with all the unusual and provocative elements of this one.

victor, the very fact that there have been many murders, both solved and unsolved, since this one but very few (correction: NONE) with all the unusual and provocative elements of this one, doesn't point away from the Ramseys as the perps. It points AT them.

imo

 

[Cherokee]

To reply to some of the probabilities mentioned by SoloSam,

One suspect had very similar handwriting to the note. It was at least as good as Patsy's, to the untrained eye. Grammar and spelling were also similar.

What suspect? Who are you talking about?

Patsy is the ONLY suspect whose handwriting and linguistics match the ransom note.

Spelling? What similar spelling? Patsy purposely misspelled certain words early in the ransom note to try to disguise authorship and suggest a "foreign" terrorist who didn't know how to spell English. She forgot this ploy as the note rambled on.

The intruder likely broke in after the Ramseys had left for the evening. He could find his way around enough to make a plan. Just luck on the dog. Several things could have happened about the outside light.

Right. The intruder spent ALL evening in the Ramseys home, walking around and opening doors through all the rooms and down to the basement, and didn't leave ANY sign of intrusion.

Oh yes, just "dumb luck" on the dog and the outside light. It's amazing how much Ramsey apologists have to explain away in order to create an intruder.

The intruder brought items that he used, except for the pen and paper. Evidence of a finely shredded paper bag was found on JB's bed and elsewhere. This doesn't make much sense coming from the Ramseys, but fits a homeless intruder well.

Evidence of a finely shredded paper bag found on JBR's bed? Where did you hear that?

Fine shavings possibly consistent with the garrote cord were allegedly found on her bed.

A homeless intruder? Puh-leeze. Why would a homeless intruder come in and kill JBR, gently molest her, and then write a very educated three page ransom note for no money and no purpose.

Motive, motive, motive. A homeless intruder has none ... no motive to murder OR to stage a crime scene in an effort to cover up what really happened. A Ramsey did.

With a little poking around he may have been able to find some of John's papers, or check stubs. Or... he may have read the book by an FBI profiler that featured 118 cases. Its curious that the note writer specifically cautioned against contacting the FBI as if he knew it would come into play.
People break into houses all the time and commit crimes and don';t leave any evidence. Maybe a few scalp hairs, mixed in with everybody's.

Once again, this homeless intruder poked around for HOURS and left no trace? Did he think to wear paramedic's gloves? Yeah, most homeless people keep a pair of hygenic gloves in their hip pocket.

He couldn't have written the ransom note or formed the garrotte, or done all the staging like tearing the duct tape, with regular cold weather gloves on ... they are too bulky.

The intruder didn't know JB would scream, but common sense indicates it would be hard to hear 2 and 3 floors up.

The fibers in around the knot could be from transference when Patsy knelt over JB. If, as you pointed out, the body was found early by LE, the fiber questions could have been eliminated. Seeing fibers there does seem unusual, but not every piece of evidence is going to make perfect sense.

Transference might explain Patsy's red fibers if they had been found ON the garrote knot, but it does not explain why they were found entwined IN the knot.

You're right. "Not every piece of evidence is going to make perfect sense" when trying to exhonerate the Ramseys. In fact, NONE of the actual evidence makes sense if you believe the Ramseys are innocent because that's where the evidence leads ... to the Ramseys.

Yes, the probability that someone could break in, and not be discovered and commit the crime is very low, but its greater, IMO, than any scenario what involve the Ramseys. Just look at how this murder compares to the thousands of murders that have occured since. There are no doubt 100s, and 100s of unsolved murders, but very few with all the unusual and provocative elements of this one.

Like Ivy said, not ONE unsolved murder has the elements of this one because the elements don't fit together. That's one reason the FBI and LE know the crime scene was staged and not representative of what actually happened.

If the crime scene was staged, then that means someone tried to cover-up the reality of what happened.

Why would a homeless intruder stage a crime scene? What possible motive could he have? He commits his crime and he's gone. But the Ramseys would have motive to cover-up something to protect someone in the family. The Ramseys had access, motive and opportunity.

The Ramseys covered up what really happened to JonBenet.


IMO

 

[newtv]

One hair would do it, or shoe print, easy enough, go back to the most simple conclusion.

I thot lou smitt said he found a shoe print on a suitcase or on the carpet close to it-and that the window was smashed - it may have been smashed before if I recall- but I thot i listened to a program where he showed how an intruder could get in and out that window by standing on the suitcase..etc..I understood the shoe print didnt fit the ramseys - any of them

 

[Cherokee]

I thot lou smitt said he found a shoe print on a suitcase or on the carpet close to it-and that the window was smashed - it may have been smashed before if I recall- but I thot i listened to a program where he showed how an intruder could get in and out that window by standing on the suitcase..etc..I understood the shoe print didnt fit the ramseys - any of them

There was no shoe print on the suitcase. There was no carpet.

There was partial Hi-Tec shoe print in the cement dust of the "wine cellar" that was the right size to have been made by Burke Ramsey since he own Hi-Tec shoes, but that partial print could have been made at anytime, and it not necessarity related to the crime.

John Ramsey said he broke the window earlier trying to get into the house when it was locked. He said he stripped down to his underwear to get in. I doubt if an intruder would do the same.

You have to know and understand the placement of the window to realize the limited access. It is below ground, and you have to removed a horizontal grate to access the window.

Lou Smit had a terrible time trying to get in the basement area through the window, and he could not do so without disturbing window debris. LE took a photo of an undisturbed spider web connecting the grate area that must have been there since November as it is too cold in Colorado for those spiders to move about after that time. In addition, undisturbed window debris was also photographed.

Even if a person can get INTO the house via the window (with difficulty), it is nearly impossible to exit the house through that same window.

If the intruder only came IN the house by the window, and exited OUT through a ground floor door, then he had to remember to run around and replace the grate as it was, get his pet spider to spin a connecting web, AND somehow replace dirt and leaves in an perfect effort to make the area look undisturbed. And he did all this in the dark.



IMO

 

[newtv]

thx cherokee-