New Tracey Documentary

[Jayelles]

Whay are your credentials in determining they're not stun gun marks?

Doberson explained that statement....at the time he didn't have a specific stun gun to use in experiments. When Lou Smit gave him ALL of the info, he pursued the research.

One does not need credentials to question the validity of a diagnosis made upon photographic evidence only. Lou Smit did not give Doberson all of the info. The most vital piece of "info" (i.e. JonBenet's body) was missing.

Robert Stratbucker has extensive experience of stunguns and he says that the marks were not made by a stungun. Taser inc, who make the stunguns say they have never been able to replicate the marks that are on JonBenet.

IMO, Doberson's experiment was not exhaustive. Most importantly, the pig didn't die. They should have experimented on a pig that was to be slaughtered to see how the marks altered after death.

I have experimented with the phtographs myself and whereas the marks on the pig aligned perfectly with the stungun prods, the marks on jonBenet did not. The graphics which are posted at jamesons have also been "tweaked" to make them look as though they match. I have proved this. In reality, the marks on JonBenet were closer together than the marks on the pig. Whomever posted the graphic at jameson's enlarged it so that it aligned perfectly with the marks on the pig. An honest error I'm sure.

 

[BlueCrab]

Robert Stratbucker has extensive experience of stunguns and he says that the marks were not made by a stungun. Taser inc, who make the stunguns say they have never been able to replicate the marks that are on JonBenet.

I have experimented with the phtographs myself and whereas the marks on the pig aligned perfectly with the stungun prods, the marks on jonBenet did not.

Jayelles,

There's a credibility problem when you factor in Stratbucker. Stratbucker was on the payroll of Taser and Taser does not want its product associated with the death of JonBenet.

With respect to comparing the stun gun marks on the tough skin of the test pig to the marks on the soft skin of JonBenet you must remember that the pig was kept still while being shocked, while JonBenet would have been squirming and fighting back while being shocked. Therefore the marks on JonBenet would be slightly skewed due to the violent act of trying to stun gun a non-willing victim.

JMO

 

[Jayelles]

"Credibility" problem? No. Conflict of interests? Perhaps.

However, that's what oaths are for surely?

 

[Jayelles]

http://news.scotsman.com/archive.cfm?id=666022004

Blind injustice

TV REVIEW

STEPHEN McGINTY


REAL CRIME: WHO KILLED THE PAGEANT QUEEN? Tuesday, ITV, 9pm

IN THE OPENING SCENES OF ITV’s disturbing documentary, a jury member stands to deliver the verdict. They have found John Ramsay "liable" for the death of his daughter, the six-year-old beauty queen JonBenet. A few seconds later she announces, to thunderous applause, that Patsy Benet Ramsay has also been found "liable".

When police in Boulder, Colorado, failed to press charges against the parents of JonBenet Ramsay, the Geraldo Rivera Show decided to dispense its own brand of "trial by media". The audience reaction reflected attitudes following the discovery of the child’s body on Boxing Day, 1996, in the cellar of her family home; she had been beaten, sexually abused and strangled. Video clips of her rouged face were widely played, shocking those unfamiliar with the children’s pageants popular in the southern states, and public opinion was primed to find the parents at fault.

But now, more than seven years on, this 60-minute Real Crime investigation crushes the case against them. Two new suspects are placed in the frame - on evidence that was available to the original investigation but ignored because the police were focused solely on the family and failed to follow up other possible avenues.

The programme reveals that DNA samples taken from under the victim’s fingernails and from her clothing, which cleared her parents, were ignored and left unchecked for three years.

A case may now be built against Michael Helgoth, a violent loner with paedophilic tendencies, who may have carried out the crime, assisted by an as yet unnamed second man. Helgoth owned a stun gun of the type used on the victim and his shoes matched prints found at the scene.

Helgoth, however, is dead. He apparently killed himself in 1997, the day after a police press conference in which the authorities insisted they were closing in on the perpetrator. A new investigation, carried out by the Colorado District Attorney’s office, is now following leads suggesting that Helgoth may have been killed by his partner-in-crime.

Though far from conclusive, Real Crime’s documentary leaves the viewer with the strong sense that John and Patsy Ramsay, now impoverished by legal costs, are victims, not culprits. As Patsy says: "I don’t know what happened. God knows and he ain’t telling."

 

[Jayelles]

Ten minutes till the programme airs. Video set up and ready to go!

 

[Tricia]

Ten minutes till the programme airs. Video set up and ready to go!

WE LOVE YOU JAYELLES. YOU GO!

 

[why_nutt]

Whay are your credentials in determining they're not stun gun marks?

Doberson explained that statement....at the time he didn't have a specific stun gun to use in experiments. When Lou Smit gave him ALL of the info, he pursued the research.

It is not the stun gun which causes marks, it is the electricity itself. Dobersen did not need a "specific stun gun" to determine whether the marks were from a device which emits electricity. If I put a lit match to your skin and burned you, Dobersen would not need to know what brand of match I used in order to say, yes, this mark is a burn. If he is so incompetent as to have never learned what a stun-gun mark looks like as a standalone wound, and must rely on matching wound to device by measurements instead of through doing his job as a forensic pathologist who uses microscropes and not rulers, then it does not say much for his expertise.

 

[Jayelles]

So far:-

No footprints in the snow!



Tony Frost (smarmy git)

Video image of Michael Kane laughing.

American were "led" to believe the parents were guilty.

Clear evidence of a break in (windowsill).

She was stungunned.

Tracey II so controversial that it wasn't shown in the US for a year. Then, within days of Tracey II being shown in the US, Mary Keenan took the case from the police.

New facts discovered in the past year BY THE DA's office ... coming in the second half.

How do they know what facts have been uncovered by the DA's office if no-one is speaking?

 

[Jayelles]

Lou SMit not able to speak because of confidentiality.

Private invedstigators also hired by DA. Now unpaid volunteers and therefore free to talk.


4 convited criminals living nearby including two peadophiles - never interviewed.



DNA in pants and fingernails is consistent.

DNA is not the sum total of the investigation - DNA expert working on the case.

Kenady on now.

Helgoth scary person - always shooting guns. Wrung kittens necks.

Helgoth wondered what it would be like to crack a human skull.



Kenady behan to think Helgoth might have been involved in JBR killing. Helgoth talked about making a killer deal in December - he and a partner going to make $50k each.

Kenady called BPD frequently

Video of Helgoth playing with a little blonde girl.

 

[why_nutt]

Tracey II so controversial that it wasn't shown in the US for a year. Then, within days of Tracey II being shown in the US, Mary Keenan took the case from the police.

If by "within days," Tracey means "a month and a half," that really is rather a loose definition of "days." The first broadcast in America of Lou Smit on Court TV, on a program called "The Elite," took place on November 7th, 2002. Keenan was being described in newspaper reports of December 20th, 2002 as not having yet taken over the case, though she was being described as about to.

 

[Jayelles]

Sorry about bad typing.

Helgoth collected Barbie dolls.

Helgoth a paedophile.

Violent videos and Disney's "The Santa Claus".

Allie Berrelex murder - unsolved Agustin saying that Perps often put recordings of their criminal activity in ordinary films.

Footpints in Ramsey basement - never made public. Rare Hi-Tec boots. Helgoth's boots are the same kind as Ramsey footprint. Investigators say they are a perfect match.

They don't think it was suicide because he used a pillow to muffle the sound.

But DNA not a match!

More than one person involved because ransom says "we are a group of individuals" and "two gentlemen watching over your daughter".

A dozen break-ins in month prior to murder - stopped after murder. Little not nothing taken.

Helgoth stalked people at night dressed as a ninja.

Interviews with some dodgy characters who say they were afraid of second individual. married for a few days - tried to kill his ex-wife.

Methodical person, lived in a trailer park, control freak. into ninja - black clothing. convicted of stabbing. violence, history of sexual assault. in prison for sexual assault. worked in Ramsey house. two colours of animal hairs. he raised wolf dogs whose hairs matched exactly.

May have been born in 1954 (caught sight of that year on his rap sheet.

 

[Jayelles]

Other assault now on. Reconstruction. intruder dressed like ninja.

Her parents hired a private detective.

Ramseys are impoverished. No medical insurance to cover continued cancer treatment. John considered taking a job as a carpenter in order to survive.

DA's office - no funds for investigation.

Patys - perp may be in Timbuctoo. And continue to hold your babies close.

Boulder getting a hammering. Boulder people don't care.

6 detectives needed for 6 months to solve case.

the end.

 

[Jayelles]

Agustin said that criminals hid details of their activities in media. The suggestion is clear that Helgoth had something to do with Alie Berrelez's murder. Tracey should be ashamed of slamming the reporter for writing that. Does he not even know what is in his own documentary?

 

[Jayelles]

They are claiming that pictures of Helgoth's HI Tec boots show traces of the Ramsey basement mould.

 

[Tricia]

They are claiming that pictures of Helgoth's HI Tec boots show traces of the Ramsey basement mould.

That lying sack. He should be removed from CU.

How in the world would they know if his boots had "Ramsey" mold.

Also, according to the 2000 Atlanta interviews it was proven that Burke owned the Hi-Tech boots.

My friends. Tracy's waterloo is coming. Get ready because we are going to need everyone's help.

 

[Nedthan Johns]

in prison for sexual assault. worked in Ramsey house. two colours of animal hairs. he raised wolf dogs whose hairs matched exactly.

Ned: Was in prison? Then his DNA ALSO was not a match

 

[Jayelles]

Sounds like this could be the guy who was tagged when working for the Ramseys?

 

[Nedthan Johns]

does anyone remember this guys name?

 

[Cherokee]

Ramseys are impoverished. No medical insurance to cover continued cancer treatment. John considered taking a job as a carpenter in order to survive.

Then why didn't he? Is carpentry beneath him?

I guess so. He'd rather run for political office, and expose his family to the media once again than get a real job.

Gee, living in 1/2 million dollar homes isn't exactly a sign of being impoverished. If things were so bad, the Ramseys could have lived in a less expensive home and worked for a living like the rest of us.

But NOOOOOOO. For seven years, the Ramseys couldn't give up their high rolling life style. We were asked to feel sorry for them when they finally had to sell their $650,000 home and move to a mere $350,000 home. Oh, poor babies.

So, the lawsuits WERE a means to raise cash ... not just clear Burke's name. Any proceeds from the various settlements were obviously used for Ramsey living expenses. And Burke's private schooling. And Patsy's redecorating. And John's refurbishing of an old airplane because John HAS to have a toy airplane.

Now we know where the "foundation" money really went. To keep the Ramseys in the lifestyle to which they'd become accustomed. No wonder John said every penny of the foundation money was his own. That $1000 pay off to the Charlevoix day camp after Patsy's loose lip lie on LKL must have really hurt the pocketbook. No spare parts for the airplane this month, John.

The Ramseys have brought the life they have on themselves. They have no one to blame but themselves. Their arrogance, their deceit, and their insatiable desire to have the trappings of wealth have taken their toll. They are to be pitied ... not for their self-made financial situation, but for their selfish moral bankruptcy.


IMO

 

[Cain]

If they were impoverished, that means that they didn't get anything, or just pocket money from ST's trial. That is clear.

Funny to see how, suddenly, we have two persons leaving zero clues at the house. Well, maybe if they catch this unknonw felon and DNA don't match, they will produce a third. And a fourth, if necessary. I wouldn't be surprised.

As it seems, Helgoth and his friend were both paedophiles. After 8 years of hard work, Ramsey detectives reach finally this discovery. Bravo.

Not a word (according Jayelles resumé) about the ransom note. And you can suppose that so hard working men as Gray and Smith have seen writen examples of both "suspects". Don't match? So, don't tell, it would ruin the show.

Lou Smith "cabn't talk" for ethic reasons, but they "know" the D.A's "advances", and Ollie tells what Lou can't tell. Shameful.

Beckner says that bots don't match, but they ignore Beckner. Not a word about Burke's Hi Techs.

The stun gun fantasy again... produced as it were proven evidence.

Very bad journalism. And I won't tell what I think of Michael Tracey.

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My opinion.