Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest* #2

[Mariposa]

The thing is the two women corroborate the attack on Grace

It really is irrelevant what else the woman said in texts after the attack. And actually, the murder of Grace proves she was correct in her suspicions

Interesting that the defense in this case tells the jury they shouldn’t judge the defendant on his actions after Grace died (which are sinister AF) but this witness is to be judged strictly and raked over coals over texts after her incident with defendant.

Her placating behavior makes sense to me. I think I read they matched on Tinder and had been communicating for quite awhile before the incident described. He was creepy popping up places he knew she’d be, made alarming comments about underworld connections, and threatened to kill himself when she didn’t want to have intercourse with him. He sounds volatile and unstable AT BEST.

 

[Mariposa]

From an earlier article -

Mr McCoubrey said that in the hours after Miss Millane died the defendant visited the Hub website where his first search was for a 'very young teen' video.

The 27-year-old also took seven intimate photos of Miss Millane's body and manipulated her to get the shots he wanted, Mr McCoubrey said.

Grace Millane 'killed during rough sex with Tinder date', New Zealand court hears | Daily Mail Online

This from the article was new for me-I had not realized he was back at it on Tinder before even 8am. Compulsive

By 7:50am that morning – Miss Millane's 22nd birthday – the defendant was back on Tinder, Mr McCoubrey said, arranging another date with a second woman while the Briton lay dead on his floor.

 

[mrjitty]

Interesting that the defense in this case tells the jury they shouldn’t judge the defendant on his actions after Grace died (which are sinister AF) but this witness is to be judged strictly and raked over coals over texts after her incident with defendant.

Her placating behavior makes sense to me. I think I read they matched on Tinder and had been communicating for quite awhile before the incident described. He was creepy popping up places he knew she’d be, made alarming comments about underworld connections, and threatened to kill himself when she didn’t want to have intercourse with him. He sounds volatile and unstable AT BEST.

Exactly!

Anyone with any understanding of abuse would not find any of this unusual. These men are highly manipulative and dangerous.

She was correct in her evaluation of him! Because hello - he sexually assaulted her!

But as we know, victims are often manipulated, or lack the strength to break away from these abusers.

 

[sunnynz]

Thank you! so many times in cases I read comments where people misdefine murder or think it requires some sort of prolonged premeditation.

Well I hope the judge makes the parameters really clear because I didn’t understand that until people enlightened me here.

 

[legal.beagle]

Murder defined

Culpable homicide is murder in each of the following cases:

(a) if the offender means to cause the death of the person killed:

(b) if the offender means to cause to the person killed any bodily injury that is known to the offender to be likely to cause death, and is reckless whether death ensues or not:

(c) if the offender means to cause death, or, being so reckless as aforesaid, means to cause such bodily injury as aforesaid to one person, and by accident or mistake kills another person, though he or she does not mean to hurt the person killed:

(d) if the offender for any unlawful object does an act that he or she knows to be likely to cause death, and thereby kills any person, though he or she may have desired that his or her object should be effected without hurting any one.

 

[legal.beagle]

Whereas manslaughter generally refers to accidental homicide arising from an unlawful act or failure to act, where death could not reasonably be expected.

I don't know, as much as I hate to state it, I think they may have a case for manslaughter. JMO

 

[jamjim]

The Grace Millane murder trial will reconvene at 10am.

The jury is expected to hear the rest of the defence's cross-examination of a witness, who claimed she fear for her life during a Tinder date with the man now accused of Grace's murder.

Grace Millane murder trial: Accused's past Tinder date back on the stand

 

[Jaw]

But we don't know exactly what went on the hotel room. He said they had consensual sex, that potentially may not have happened?

 

[jamjim]

Yesterday, a witness told the jury about a "terrifying" Tinder date she had with the accused on November 2, 2018.

She claimed the accused sat on top of her, restricting her breathing, and held her arms down while she thrashed her legs, trying to get free.

"This can't be the way I died," she thought at the time.

When he did get off her and she confronted him about not being able to breathe, she claims he said: "You don't think I did that on purpose do you?"

Under-cross examination, defence lawyer Ron Mansfield asked the witness about a part of the exchange he says she left out in her evidence yesterday.

"You described his tone as accusing and quite cold ... but you didn't tell us yesterday that he broke down and cried," he said.

"When he broke down like that, did you say to him: 'Of course I don't think you meant to do that, you're not a horrible person'? That is what you told police, correct?" Mansfield asked her.

The woman said she didn't believe that statement. At that point, she said she was scared of the accused and she just wanted to go home.

Grace Millane murder trial: Accused's past Tinder date back on the stand

 

[Alyce]

dbm

 

[jamjim]

'It still gives me chills'
10.30am

One of the accused's lawyers, Ron Mansfield, has this morning continued to question the account of the witness from their November 2 date last year.

Yesterday, she told the court that after being suffocated by the alleged killer during oral sex he made an "almost accusing and quite cold" remark.

"I was gasping, I couldn't breathe properly and he just said to me, 'Oh what's wrong?'

"Almost accusing and quite cold he said, 'Oh you don't think I did that on purpose do you?'"

Mansfield asked: "When you first spoke to the police you put it slightly differently, didn't you?"

The woman agreed she hadn't initially talked to police about the accused's tone but during her testimony has told the court: "Just the way he said it ... it still gives me chills."

Grace Millane murder trial: Tinder match tells jury of 'terrifying' sexual encounter with accused

 

[jamjim]

Defence counsel Ron Mansfield claims the witness went to police to convey the accused as a "horrible" person in a bid to help police investigating Grace's death.

"You wanted to portray yourself as a bit of a victim," he told the court.

The defence said the witness willingly got herself into a sexual situation with the accused, who never forced any activity with her.

"You could have left earlier," Mansfield said.

The witness said she never wanted to engage in sexual activity with the accused. She said she wanted to leave the apartment during their date but she was scared he would follow her out and she wasn't even sure where the building's lift was.

Grace Millane murder trial: Accused's past Tinder date back on the stand

 

[jamjim]

10.55am

"He had my arms pinned down ... It's not a pleasurable thing ... He would have seen me kicking," the woman said, as she again was asked to recall her date with the accused.

"After the struggling after holding me down, yes, I said 'I couldn't breathe'."

The woman said the accused "had both my arms".

However defence lawyer Ron Mansfield asked a series of questions: "Although he wanted you to stay the night he didn't stop you from leaving did he?

"You felt uncomfortable and you didn't like it?

"He got off you and then you told him you didn't like it?"

But the woman bit back.

"I was completely scared and fearful," she said.

"A person who can almost kill someone and suffocate them ... And then claim he has cancer to gain some sympathy ... he's a sociopath."

She said her experience was "nasty, it was terrifying".

"It was one of the worst days of my life," she told the court.

"I don't want to be here talking about it, I don't want to be reliving it."

Grace Millane murder trial: Tinder match tells jury of 'terrifying' sexual encounter with accused

 

[jamjim]

11.10am

During the woman's re-examination by Auckland's Crown Solicitor Brian Dickey she said the accused, whom she described as hysterical, had claimed he was All Black Aaron Smith's cousin.

"He told me he had spent the last All Blacks game watching with the wives and girlfriends.

"I thought it was just odd."

She said the accused - who also claimed he had gang connections - clung to the fact she was adopted and also claimed he had been adopted as a child.

"I didn't want to have to be part of this, share my story with everyone - the public," she said.

"I'm embarrassed that I put myself in such a terrifying or dangerous position, that's the only thing that I'm embarrassed about."

Grace Millane murder trial: Tinder match tells jury of 'terrifying' sexual encounter with accused

 

[jamjim]

Defence lawyer Ron Mansfield continued by asking the witness again to detail how she claims the accused sat on top of her, restricting her breathing, during their date at his apartment.

The witness demonstrated where on her shoulders he positioned his knees.

"He had his hands on my forearms," she said.

Mansfield said that was untrue, claiming the accused instead had had his arms on the bed.

"No, that's completely false. He had his hands on my forearms putting a lot of weight down. He was looking towards my feet - he would have seen me struggling [kicking her legs].

She said after she got free, the accused claimed he was in immense pain from a stomach ache.

"I was completely scared and fearful," she said.

"A person who almost killed someone by suffocating them, then to claim to be in pain to make me feel sympathy to get me to stay [when I wanted to leave]."

"There's a word for that - a sociopath," she said.

Grace Millane murder trial: Accused's past Tinder date back on the stand

 

[jamjim]

The defence has finished its line of questioning.

Now, Crown solicitor Brian Dickey asks the witness to read from the statement she gave to police, detailing how she felt about their date.

She read: "I did what I thought I had to say to get out of there. I think he did mean me harm but I needed to console him and calm him down. But he was becoming hysterical again.

He said: "You don't want me, no-one wants me".

Before the sexual encounter, she said the accused told her about gang connections and how his childhood was traumatic. He also bragged about knowing famous people, such as members of the All Blacks rugby team, and told her he had cancer.

She said she didn't believe any of it.

She added that she gave the statement after police contacted her.

“I was ashamed and embarrassed that I had put myself in such a dangerous position. I don’t want to be here reliving this. I’m definitely not making this up.”

The witness is excused.

Grace Millane murder trial: Accused's past Tinder date back on the stand

 

[jamjim]

The next witness is Doctor Simon Stables, who performed the post mortem examination on Grace's body.

The jury is handed a booklet of six photographs that show the autopsy and are warned by Justice Simon Moore that some of the photographs may be distressing.

He says the photos are important as they provide an illustration of Dr Stables' evidence.

Grace Millane murder trial: Accused's past Tinder date back on the stand

 

[jamjim]

The court has adjourned for 15 minutes.

 

[jamjim]

Pathologist describes examination after Millane's body found in suitcase
11.40am

Dr Simon Stables, a forensic pathologist, has started giving evidence.

He said his first involvement in the case was around 8am on December 9 after receiving a call from the police officer in charge of the case Detective Inspector Scott Beard.

Beard said they had likely found a body for a missing woman in the Waitakere Ranges.

When Stables arrived at the scene there was a muddy and dirty suitcase still in the ground, he told the court.

He then watched it be removed from the ground and out of the bush.

Grace Millane murder trial: Tinder match tells jury of 'terrifying' sexual encounter with accused

 

[Mariposa]

I am jaw dropped at some of the stuff Ron Mansfield is quoted as saying. She could have left before he smothered her? It is like a weird tesseract back in time how archaic the crap he comes out with. I understand he has to attack her credibility, I’m a lawyer tho not a criminal one and I get that, but some of the stuff he’s saying...he’s virtually advocating for a world where there’s a free for all for guys who want to kill women during sexual activity. As long as the woman somewhere along the line consented to being on a date with the guy.

And the testimony the defendant claimed he had cancer... he’s like a manipulative behavior textbook