Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest*

[HayLouise]

Daily Mirror‏Verified account @DailyMirror

Grace Millane murder suspect 'public enemy No 1' and 'at risk of prison attack' https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/grace-millane-murder-suspect-public-13717002?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1544521759 …

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[mrjitty]

I wonder if he has any prior convictions? Because if not- it isn't normal to go straight into a premeditated murder. I still believe not premeditated- but will have to wait for the trial now.

He is charged with Murder at this stage

Under s 167 of the NZ Crimes Act 1961 (still the same act as i studied in the early 90s!!), murder includes any of the following

Culpable homicide is murder in each of the following cases:

(a) if the offender means to cause the death of the person killed:

(b) if the offender means to cause to the person killed any bodily injury that is known to the offender to be likely to cause death, and is reckless whether death ensues or not:

(c) if the offender means to cause death, or, being so reckless as aforesaid, means to cause such bodily injury as aforesaid to one person, and by accident or mistake kills another person, though he or she does not mean to hurt the person killed:

(d) if the offender for any unlawful object does an act that he or she knows to be likely to cause death, and thereby kills any person, though he or she may have desired that his or her object should be effected without hurting any one.​

Crimes Act 1961 No 43 (as at 28 September 2017), Public Act 167 Murder defined – New Zealand Legislation
​

At this early stage, the Prosecution will have quite a bit of leeway as to the details. I don't believe they need to venture an opinion on pre-meditation

 

[mrjitty]

Why would the NZ government pay the family's expenses? The government is not at fault for Grace's murder.

Tourism is a strategic industry for NZ alongside dairy farming.

NZ scales up industries by creating umbrella orgs/cartels

It is completely usual for the government to get highly engaged, both with opportunities and bad news. Although perhaps Jacinda's emotional speech was a new level of Prime Ministerial engagement.

In any event, unfortunately these bad backpacker murders have happened from time to time down the years.

Perhaps the most famous being the Swedish couple Heidi Paakonnen and Sven Hoglin in 1989

Tourism New Zealand is the marketing agency responsible for promoting New Zealand as a tourism destination internationally. It is the trading name of the New Zealand Tourism Board, a Crown entity established under the New Zealand Tourism Board Act 1991.

 

[Tortoise]

Which doea make a mockery of the order, does anyone know if other countries are legally bound by it, I guess the legislation was drafted long before the internet age

Tbh I don't think it should hinder a fair trial, I'm sure NZ jurors are intelligent enough to decide on the evidence in court

That's kind of besides the point. The legislation was written for a purpose and if it doesn't do what it's supposed to do the law should be changed. The issue is media disrespecting the legal system. I'm not making a judgement on whether he should be protected or not, or whether he can get a fair trial.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

To be fair, this is the first incident of its type to have occurred under Jacinda's leadership.

Jacinda is a very caring, warm hearted woman who truly cares about people, so it's no surprise to me at all that she spoke out.

The fact is, Grace came to our beautiful country on what is a rite of passage for so many, and there is widespread opinion that we, as New Zealanders, let her down. I think people would've been more disappointed if Jacinda hadn't said anything.

I agree!

I was very proud of Jacinda, to speak out for women who are too often victims in NZ

 

[mrjitty]

Or might it have been in the hire car as standard? And why since Monday? Why not Sunday?

Definitely not.

 

[Tortoise]

I suppose they will have to wait for the autopsy results to find out if he is to be charged with additional offences.

 

[mrjitty]

It appears from its website City Life has underground carparking.

I think I stayed there before with a rental car but it is so long ago I can't remember

 

[Tortoise]

So, instead of telling our daughters to be more careful, we should be telling our sons to be more caring. Rather than discouraging girls from dating, travelling and partying with gusto, we should be teaching boys how to create unchallenging environments for women. Instead of using this tragedy to impede female liberation, we should be talking about what men can do to help ensure the safety of the opposite sex.

Opinion: Grace Millane's death should be a wakeup call for men, not a warning to women

Hear hear.

 

[Tortoise]

It appears from its website City Life has underground carparking.

I think I stayed there before with a rental car but it is so long ago I can't remember

Let's hope it has cctv. Possibly an elevator from the hotel to the carpark for people to take their luggage straight to their car.

 

[mrjitty]

They must have cctv of him buying it.

Maybe eftpos as well

 

[asyousay]

So, instead of telling our daughters to be more careful, we should be telling our sons to be more caring. Rather than discouraging girls from dating, travelling and partying with gusto, we should be teaching boys how to create unchallenging environments for women. Instead of using this tragedy to impede female liberation, we should be talking about what men can do to help ensure the safety of the opposite sex.

Opinion: Grace Millane's death should be a wakeup call for men, not a warning to women

Hear hear.

I still don’t agree though with going on dates with complete strangers in a foreign country though.

Being a female I just don’t take unnecessary risks. He was clearly a complete oddball and was able to operate because of these dating sites as he was a anonymous and could lure unsuspecting women in.

 

[Tortoise]

It's interesting because they said she was found in brush or bush, so it doesn't sound like she was buried. I wonder if he buried something else.

 

[Tortoise]

I still don’t agree though with going on dates with complete strangers in a foreign country though.

Being a female I just don’t take unnecessary risks. He was clearly a complete oddball and was able to operate because of these dating sites as he was a anonymous and could lure unsuspecting women in.

Do you agree with her doing it in London?

 

[suzyjackson]

One key reason is to keep aspects of his life which might be inadmissible, out of the public domain.

His name is essentially meaningless.

I may be misunderstanding, if the name is meaningless what is the point of the order, does name supression actually mean more than literally not reporting the name?

 

[mrjitty]

It's interesting because they said she was found in brush or bush, so it doesn't sound like she was buried. I wonder if he buried something else.

It's native bush there

 

[suzyjackson]

I still don’t agree though with going on dates with complete strangers in a foreign country though.

Being a female I just don’t take unnecessary risks. He was clearly a complete oddball and was able to operate because of these dating sites as he was a anonymous and could lure unsuspecting women in.

Do we know for sure they were together in a dating situation? Maybe they were with a wider group and he separated Grace on some pretext.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but it may not have been obvious at all that he was an oddball, many murders and other criemes are committed by seemingly normal people who only appear dangerous with the benefit of hindsight. I'm keeping an open mind for now until we know more.

 

[suzyjackson]

Do you agree with her doing it in London?

Or with London natives asking foreigners on dates?

 

[mrjitty]

I may be misunderstanding, if the name is meaningless what is the point of the order, does name supression actually mean more than literally not reporting the name?

We don't know yet the basis of the interim name suppression application - it is almost certain that it won't be granted on appeal.

But there must be some background detail on which the defence applied.

The defence was unsuccessful with the application in the District Court

Under New Zealand law, a judge who refuses name suppression must grant interim suppression for a 20-day appeal period if the defendant indicates they will appeal.

This means interim name suppression will continue until the appeal on Judge Thomas's decision can be heard in the High Court.

Probably they are just stalling.

The Criminal Procedure Act 2011 lays out the threshold grounds in which a person can be granted interim name suppression.

There are nine grounds in total, which include that publication would "cause extreme hardship to the person charged with, or convicted of, or acquitted of the offence, or any person connected with that person."

Others being that it would "cast suspicion on another person that may cause undue hardship to that person, or cause undue hardship to any victim of the offence, or create a real risk of prejudice to a fair trial."

The Act stipulates that the fact that a defendant is "well known" does not, of itself, mean that publication of his or her name will result in extreme hardship.

 

[Tortoise]

I know that in the UK when a person is charged with an offence newspapers don't allow commenting on reports/articles until the verdict is in. I don't know how that law applies or can be applied to social media.