Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest*

[kiwijayne]

What does that mean?

NZ had convicts come to it via Australia

 

[Jennifer17]

NZ had convicts come to it via Australia

When they were freed? If so, they were no longer convicts.

 

[ocsalumni]

Not to be a brat but can y'all take this to a DM, this is ridiculous

 

[kiwijayne]

When they were freed? If so, they were no longer convicts.

My own great grandfather was a criminal he jumped ship from the English Navy and had a bounty on his head.

Anyway enough off topic stuff.

 

[mrjitty]

My timeline, but I could be way off, is Grace was dead before lunch time on Sunday when the car was hired and her body not removed from the hotel until early Monday morning. I feel he waited until then as any rural dumping sites would be full of hikers or people generally out and about etc on a Sunday. To do the deed early on a working day makes more sense. It seems the police have accounted for the vehicle from 9.30am to just before lunch time on Monday when he returned it to the hire company because it's just that three-hour time period they're interested in.

For those who are unfamiliar with Auckland

AKL has a vast urban sprawl so there are not really any rural dumping sites unless he wanted to drive a long way.

The Waitakere Ranges are a regional park of preserved native bush so is an obvious place to try to dispose of a body - but also super close to Auckland. Before the Auckland super city Waitakere City was the 5th largest city in NZ, so this is really part of Auckland.

In my opinion this speaks more to a panicked dumping that any coherent plan.

 

[Crazy Mama]

It would be helpful if incorrect information was not posted in the thread

The accused was only charged with murder AFTER the body was discovered. This is typical for murder cases. At this point the police had the picture at the hotel, forensics from the room, and the hire car directly linking him to the disposal of the corpse. This is easily sufficient to persuade a District Court Judge to remand the accused into custody awaiting trial for murder. We don't know what the room forensics were, but I would say the police didn't actually need 100% evidence how she died in the room at that stage. Finding the body gives them cause of death.



Backpacker murder accused in court

I really do recall them saying that he had been remanded in custody for the murder, and that was before they tracked the gps phone signals to the body. I need to back track through my history to see all that again. I remember thinking at the time that they obvi had enough evidence without a body.

 

[Satchie]

The accused was only charged with murder AFTER the body was discovered. This is typical for murder cases. At this point the police had the picture at the hotel, forensics from the room, and the hire car directly linking him to the disposal of the corpse. This is easily sufficient to persuade a District Court Judge to remand the accused into custody awaiting trial for murder. We don't know what the room forensics were, but I would say the police didn't actually need 100% evidence how she died in the room at that stage. Finding the body gives them cause of death.



Backpacker murder accused in court

I would say the cause of death, as discerned by medical examination/ autopsy, is what they would be looking for to lay a murder charge: it can be determined without any doubt that death was caused by violence that could not have been accidental: Strangulation, blow to the head with a weapon, so forth. Also defensive wounds or other signs of assault.

 

[All & Forward]

Wait, what? How do people know the pink bracelet was for a gambling event? Link?

 

[Blue Bottle]

I think proper reporting is intact. He's a soccer player with military and police in 2010. Since then he has been out of contact with his community and family. The family says the reason that he is out of contact is because his parents divorced as a child.

Are any family members still "back in Oz?"

Not sure if anyone has replied to your question yet, but after his parents divorced it is claimed by his grandfather that his mother moved to Australia and still lives there and he has visited her here in Australia on occassion...
.

 

[Satchie]

I really do recall them saying that he had been remanded in custody for the murder, and that was before they tracked the gps phone signals to the body. I need to back track through my history to see all that again. I remember thinking at the time that they obvi had enough evidence without a body.

"The week-long search for the 22-year-old backpacker from Essex took a tragic turn yesterday [Saturday] when Auckland police said at a 5pm press conference they believed she had been murdered. They said they had taken a man into custody at 3pm and were speaking to him in relation to the murder of Millane.

They then about 9pm said the man would be charged."
Car the key to Grace Millane's alleged murder - former police inspector

So they were interviewing (interrogating) him on Saturday, and holding ever more ominous press conferences as they did so. They announced he 'would be' charged. I find that fairly extraordinary, actually, normally LE only announce after charges have been laid, not before.

I wonder whether this was part of a process of putting pressure on him to tell them where her body was.

 

[otto]

It would be helpful if incorrect information was not posted in the thread

The accused was only charged with murder AFTER the body was discovered. This is typical for murder cases. At this point the police had the picture at the hotel, forensics from the room, and the hire car directly linking him to the disposal of the corpse. This is easily sufficient to persuade a District Court Judge to remand the accused into custody awaiting trial for murder. We don't know what the room forensics were, but I would say the police didn't actually need 100% evidence how she died in the room at that stage. Finding the body gives them cause of death.

Backpacker murder accused in court

Yes, a suspect was arrested and charged with murder after her body was discovered. That doesn't change the fact that her disappearance was declared a homicide after her steps were traced to the hotel.

 

[otto]

Perhaps it would help to familiarise yourself with the history of european colonization of NZ before making such insinuations?

Please speak plainly.

 

[mrjitty]

I really do recall them saying that he had been remanded in custody for the murder, and that was before they tracked the gps phone signals to the body. I need to back track through my history to see all that again. I remember thinking at the time that they obvi had enough evidence without a body.

He was only arrested at that stage - as the Court is not open again until Monday am.

This is the walk back

Last Friday (7th) police were interviewing a man and searching the hotel
Saturday night 8th December - Man arrested on suspicion of murder
Sunday morning - Police presser - body found. "Scene identified late last night"

So the police knew about a body on Saturday night when he was arrested.

Here is the reporting from Saturday

A vehicle of interest had been secured and police were trying to find out exactly where the vehicle had been since Millane's disappearance. He wouldn't give a description of the vehicle or say where it was found.

This morning police released photos of a necklace and pink Casio Baby-G watch Millane was thought to be wearing when she disappeared, and said her passport was also missing.

They still wanted to hear from anyone who had seen any of the items, or the black dress and white sneakers Millane was wearing when she was last seen.

"You know, that property is going to be somewhere. Her clothing's going to be somewhere, we haven't found it, and somebody may find it."

So there is quite a bit going on here that they have not revealed to us yet. Why did they believe the clothes were "somewhere"?

I know the focus is on forensics in the room - which may be conclusive - but they clearly had a lot more than that.

Especially the suspicious hire car which led them straight to the body on Saturday night.

 

[otto]

I agree it's farfetched.

I was simply pointing out why manslaughter would be an unusual charge in the circumstances, unless the accused had already claimed some extenuating facts.

Manslaughter is essentially a homicide which arises from an unlawful act, but without one of the murderous intents I have already twice posted.

Like say he shoved her angrily, she fell and cracked her skull on the edge of a table.

But the prosecution need not worry about such possibilities at this point - the onus will be on the defence to raise any such mitigation at trial.

The prosecution will charge up to Murder (the obvious inference in the situation).

They can always argue Manslaughter in the alternate under NZ law, if the need should arise.

Hasn't he or his family already declared mental illness.

 

[Jennifer17]

Please speak plainly.

It was plain speaking. New Zealand was never a penal colony like Australia was.

 

[otto]

I can't tell if you're just trolling at this point. This is so off-topic and inappropriate. (..and ignorant, at that)

I'm looking for answers in the context of the big picture.

 

[Jennifer17]

Delete

 

[Blue Bottle]

It was plain speaking. New Zealand was never a penal colony like Australia was.

In a nutshell, according to this New Zealand website:

Specifically, Australia was founded to be a penal colony while New Zealand was founded to be a religious colony. Furthermore, Australia is a harsh land of droughts, snakes and desert while New Zealand is a heavenly land of lakes, glaciers and fertile soil.

Cultural differences between Australia and New Zealand

 

[otto]

It was plain speaking. New Zealand was never a penal colony like Australia was.

Good to know.

This suspect has been tossed between Australians and New Zealanders as not belonging to them.

The rate of domestic violence, and violence by men against women in the name of "sexual relationship," is high in these countries.

 

[Jennifer17]

Deleted by me