New Zealand - White Island volcano erupts, 19 dead, many injuries from cruise excursion, 9 Dec 2019 *charges*

[whitelilac]

From the article, Normal recovery versus fast recovery:

"A normal recovery operation would see police spending enough time at the scene to collect the evidence needed to ensure the bodies were all properly identified.

A fast mission would mean recovering the remains quicker but with a "trade-off", he said.

"If you are the next of kin and we don't get an identification as a consequence of taking that process, they are not going to be happy and I would understand that," Mr Clement said.

It's not clear if the recovery planned for Friday will be a normal or a fast mission."

This will be such a difficult, grim, and heartbreaking task. And dangerous.

 

[SouthAussie]

Where is the issue of "personal responsibility" come in? Live volcanoes are not "Disneyworld" attractions. I would have never gone to visit a live volcano. That is something that you evacuate from...not visit.

The fact that a tour company was available for trips to this area was not surprising. People always want to push the envelope...in the end, they made a choice.

The same as people, usually men, who want to run with bulls...and they get gored...surprise....not.

I don't believe that there will be any issue with personal (or other) responsibility. Everyone who is hurt in NZ is covered by an accident compensation scheme. One in which their injuries are taken care of and they can't sue.

"New Zealand’s accident compensation scheme, run by the government, covers the cost of all treatment for injuries sustained in New Zealand, including for foreigners. Its coverage, which the injured cannot opt out of, bars them from suing for negligence."
White Island volcano victims cannot bring civil lawsuits for negligence


The only concern would be if the tour operators flouted any health and safety laws, which they could be prosecuted for.
From what I saw in the last tourist video taken before and during the eruption, everyone was wearing gas masks, the tour operator was advising them of how to behave safely, and he got them the heck out of there very quickly.

Short clip of the video in this link: but there is a link to the full 12 min personal video in the article (if you click on 'published on Thursday morning').
https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceani...er-white-island-eruption-20191212-p53jbj.html

 

[SouthAussie]

Bloomfield said they had accepted offers of specialist burns teams to come from US, UK, and Australia and relieve New Zealand teams.

There are 21 patients still in New Zealand burns units, including two New Zealanders. Of those, 12 are in a critical condition according to New Zealand health authorities. They still required “the highest level of care” and a small number were “very unwell”, said Dr Ashley Bloomfield, the director-general of health.

The repatriation of Australians in intensive care-capable aircraft “has been going exceptionally well” and had taken pressure off New Zealand units, he said.

'Absolutely heartbroken': families mourn White Island's victims

 

[mrjitty]

Then there is Rotorua’s bubbling mud pools which is an active volcano as well and a must see in the North Island

Rotorua, a town set on its namesake lake on New Zealand's North Island, is renowned for its geothermal activity and Maori culture. In Te Puia’s Whakarewarewa Valley, there are bubbling mud pools and the 30m-tall Pohutu Geyser, which erupts many times daily

New Zealand is constantly moving and shaking and IMO the risk anywhere anytime is a potential threat.
This is Christchurch in 2011
View attachment 219719

This is what is kind of amusing about people who left CHC to go to AKL because of the quakes - there are dozens of volcanoes up north which could still erupt

 

[mrjitty]

IMO the real issue is the 17,000 odd tourists they are putting on the island per year.

If you have 50 odd people there on a daily basis, the chance of a tragedy gets quite high over many years

While there was some warning, in reality, this Volcano can go off with only seconds notice, which is pretty much what happened. But also, it could have been 5 years ...

 

[Pi Thoughts]

A daring retrieval mission to bring back the bodies of eight people killed by Whakaari's deadly eruption has begun after a traditional blessing was held at sea with family members of the victims.

New Zealand Police Deputy Commissioner John Tims this morning confirmed in a statement that Defence Force officials have started to travel to White Island.

"A blessing was held at sea with representatives of the families of the victims of the Whakaari/White Island volcanic eruption.," Dep Comm Tims said in a statement.
'We have a plan': Retrieval mission begins for NZ volcano eruption victims

 

[whitelilac]

More:

NZ troops on volcanic island to recover bodies

How will volcano bodies be recovered?

 

[SouthAussie]

5 mins ago:
"The operation to recover the bodies from Whakaari / White Island is progressing and the team is well advanced with the recovery of the bodies.

We expect the recovery operation to continue for another couple of hours.

Conditions on the island remain favourable." - Deputy Commissioner John Tims


Vulcanologists are monitoring White Island in real time, in case the mission needs to be aborted. Activity has eased since Monday's deadly eruption, but it remains above normal.


Airforce helicopters being used for the mission which started at dawn this morning:

New Zealand volcano eruption: White Island recovery operation 'going to plan' – live

 

[LadyL]

Local Maori groups have placed a "rahui" over the waters around the volcano and the coastal stretch on the Bay of Plenty.

It is a traditional prohibition banning anyone except recovery teams from visiting the island or fishing nearby.

The rahui was placed on Tuesday morning and will be lifted only once the missing bodies are recovered.

The recovery mission might be accompanied by a tohunga from the tribe - an traditional expert to provide spiritual support.

Rahui are often placed on areas after deaths or accidents occur or to protect natural resources in a specific area. They are not legally binding but are commonly respected by New Zealanders.

NZ police to recover volcano bodies on Friday

maybe that should be in place at all times, instead of visitor tours being arranged

 

[LadyL]

I don't believe that there will be any issue with personal (or other) responsibility. Everyone who is hurt in NZ is covered by an accident compensation scheme. One in which their injuries are taken care of and they can't sue.

"New Zealand’s accident compensation scheme, run by the government, covers the cost of all treatment for injuries sustained in New Zealand, including for foreigners. Its coverage, which the injured cannot opt out of, bars them from suing for negligence."
White Island volcano victims cannot bring civil lawsuits for negligence


The only concern would be if the tour operators flouted any health and safety laws, which they could be prosecuted for.
From what I saw in the last tourist video taken before and during the eruption, everyone was wearing gas masks, the tour operator was advising them of how to behave safely, and he got them the heck out of there very quickly.

Short clip of the video in this link: but there is a link to the full 12 min personal video in the article (if you click on 'published on Thursday morning').
https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceani...er-white-island-eruption-20191212-p53jbj.html

that's amazing
all countries should do that

 

[CoverMeCagney]

New Zealand volcano eruption: White Island recovery operation 'going to plan' – live

From that link - sounds like there are 16 dead and a dozen or so others still critical in hospital.

Of the 47 on the island:

24 from Australia
9 from the US
5 from New Zealand
4 from Germany
2 from the UK
2 from China
1 from Malaysia

 

[SouthAussie]

"NZ police has confirmed that six bodies have been successfully recovered from Whakaari / White Island and are now on board HMNZS Wellington.

Earlier, the National Emergency Management Agency had said it was thought there were eight bodies on the island."

New Zealand volcano eruption: six bodies prepared for airlift from White Island – live

Is it possible that they can't find the last two remaining people who are missing?
Or perhaps the last two are much more difficult to recover, hence the 'several more hours' - stated a little while ago - that are anticipated for the recovery?

 

[whitelilac]

I hope they will succeed in finding and retrieving the remaining two bodies, for the sake their families. They may not be intact, or be completely covered in ash and debris.

 

[cosmicgirl]

Where is the issue of "personal responsibility" come in? Live volcanoes are not "Disneyworld" attractions. I would have never gone to visit a live volcano. That is something that you evacuate from...not visit.

The fact that a tour company was available for trips to this area was not surprising. People always want to push the envelope...in the end, they made a choice.

The same as people, usually men, who want to run with bulls...and they get gored...surprise....not.

100% agree

 

[whitelilac]

I highly doubt these tourists were aware of the danger, since the tour company arranged the visit. One survivor stated they weren't even told of increased danger.
Wow !
Yellowstone is active too, but thousands visit that area. Earthquakes can happen out of the blue as well, unexpected flash floods, any natural occurrence.
I feel very sorry for the victims, as well as for the survivors who face grueling treatment, trauma, and disfigurement.
Stepping away....

 

[cosmicgirl]

You don't have to be a vulcanologist to understand what "active volcano" means...

 

[SouthAussie]

You don't have to be a vulcanologist to understand what "active volcano" means...

I don't think this very public forum is the place for speaking of the mind-frame of the victims. There is a tragedy going on, and many people grieving.

 

[SouthAussie]

Definitely seems to be some problems with recovering the last two people ....

16 min ago:
Deputy police commissioner Wally Haumaha has given a brief media stand-up and confirmed police have told the families their morning mission has been largely successful.

Haumaha said police will return to the island for the other two bodies, but could not give a timeframe for when this would happen, only assuring families it “definitely would” after further planning.

The bodies of the six recovered people were now being flown to Auckland and many families were also making their way to New Zealand’s largest city to be with their loved ones.

New Zealand volcano eruption: six bodies recovered from White Island – live

 

[musicaljoke]

You don't have to be a vulcanologist to understand what "active volcano" means...

Of course, in hindsight, the tour groups would likely have chosen not to take guests to this active volcano, but I'm not sure that anyone could understand the immediate risks. I'm not an adventure seeker, but I've visited the active Masaya volcano in Nicaragua and Tongariro in NZ, and although uncomfortable with the spewing gases around me, neither time did I sense any serious danger. It felt more like it does when you fasten your seat belt on an airplane. There's a risk, but not enough to keep you grounded.

 

[mickey2942]

I highly doubt these tourists were aware of the danger, since the tour company arranged the visit. One survivor stated they weren't even told of increased danger.
Wow !
Yellowstone is active too, but thousands visit that area. Earthquakes can happen out of the blue as well, unexpected flash floods, any natural occurrence.
I feel very sorry for the victims, as well as for the survivors who face grueling treatment, trauma, and disfigurement.
Stepping away....

In regards to Yellowstone, since you brought it up. I truly believe that some day a geyser is going to blow boiling hot water all over people. People treat the wild animals there like they are tame pets in a petting zoo. I believe that more people will be killed by animals there in the next few years.