GUILTY NH - AH, 14, North Conway, 9 October 2013 - # 8

[rizzo0904]

ZH works in a nursing home, but she's not a nurse, correct? My guess is she works a standard 8 hour day...maybe 8.5 if they have unpaid lunch.

Phone...14 minutes. The phone is likely about 14 minutes away from WalMart, give or take a few minutes. So I'd focus on bodies of water that are about a 10 minute drive away.

 

[takeitfromme412]

just read something and have a question. What is the difference between an amber alert and a submission to the national crime information system? They did submit AH as a missing person to the national crime information system, is that done as a matter of protocol when the missing person doesn't meet the protocol for an amber alert? And does it have the same "weight" as an amber alert? I'm assuming it's nationwide so is a poster given to all LE?

I can answer that one for you.
NCIC is the national crime information center (database) missing people, warrants, stolen items are put there. It is protocol nationwide that missing persons are entered there.... if LE say in FL came across a missing person from NH and this person gave their real name and date of birth it would notify them the person is a missing person.....

Amber alerts are for children under 17 who have definitely been abducted and an amber alert.....will be issued to all LE agencies in that region notifying them of the victim, suspect, vehicle last seen, circumstances of the abduction etc, and puts LE on the highest alert as to who to be looking for.....

Info in the NCIC will usually only have a BOLO issued (be on the look out) notifying LE to look out for that subject, etc

 

[rizzo0904]

If you head south from Walmart and go towards Maine, the road comes VERY close to the river. That's almost a 10 minute drive. Wonder if the phone got thrown out the window.

 

[Steleheart]

No problem. I'm merely pissed, as in pissed off and I'm assuming you are too for the same reasons. We have no facts to go on whatsoever and we're trying to come to conclusions about a possible abduction and in the meantime we can't even be sure she didn't just run away. The whole thing is just so durn frustrating. Facts? We can't even pin LE down to any facts. They change as fast as the weather does. This whole thing reminds me of those multiple choice tests where one answer is, d. not enough information to make a conclusion. Well d it is. But do trust me, I'm more than likely to make mud as fast as I make sense now and again however I'll at least try not to be downright worthless. :scared:

For what it's worth I edited my post to add "For clarity I do not think yours or anyone's opinions are worthless, I meant only that theories based on error simply do not lead us anywhere."

Not 'your' error. I was referring to how it starts out as an error then snowballs untill it seems like fact and then everyone is confused. I think you can see that.

I'll just take a break.

 

[Mom24]

so this is the video where MSM stated that the community was told by LE not to talk to anyone. Oddly enough, the journalist also says that LE searched AH's computer and cellphone and found nothing. But AH's cellphone is missing?

http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/201...participate/Q5Q9SmugKYNdJQHLYGU21N/story.html

 

[Mom24]

I can answer that one for you.
NCIC is the national crime information center (database) missing people, warrants, stolen items are put there. It is protocol nationwide that missing persons are entered there.... if LE say in FL came across a missing person from NH and this person gave their real name and date of birth it would notify them the person is a missing person.....

Amber alerts are for children under 17 who have definitely been abducted and an amber alert.....will be issued to all LE agencies in that region notifying them of the victim, suspect, vehicle last seen, circumstances of the abduction etc, and puts LE on the highest alert as to who to be looking for.....

Info in the NCIC will usually only have a BOLO issued (be on the look out) notifying LE to look out for that subject, etc

so they have the same nationwide coverage? And the difference would be just less info, like a pic of a car for an amber alert and less heightened emergency? I'm hoping it reaches the same amount of places?

 

[Mom24]

For what it's worth I edited my post to add "For clarity I do not think yours or anyone's opinions are worthless, I meant only that theories based on error simply do not lead us anywhere."

Not 'your' error. I was referring to how it starts out as an error then snowballs untill it seems like fact and then everyone is confused. I think you can see that.

I'll just take a break.

I'm just joking with you, I get what you mean. I was trying to make light. I will say it's getting me to go through old posts and it's clearing up a lot and making me see previous posts in a different light. I'd suggest everyone go back and re-read. There may be some things we missed early on.

 

[CatFancier]

so this is the video where MSM stated that the community was told by LE not to talk to anyone. Oddly enough, the journalist also says that LE searched AH's computer and cellphone and found nothing. But AH's cellphone is missing?

http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/201...participate/Q5Q9SmugKYNdJQHLYGU21N/story.html

They may have told the community that but I can't imagine everyone would listen. There's a reward for one thing. And no matter how hard we try to be perfect, it's human nature to gossip.

 

[Cardinal47]

In either the first or second thread it was postured that nurses work 7-7. It stuck.

Yes I remember and we had a huge discussion on that.

My daughter is a nurse and she works in a hospital..7 - 3 and 3 - 11.

They are soon going to be working 3 12's when she will work 7 - 7.

Nobody has ever told us what hours Zenya worked.

 

[MamaJoJo]

There is no information that I have found that states when ZH arrived home, that she called police right away, or that she even went to work that day. If there is that information then many people have missed a huge piece of the puzzle.

BBM: It is absolutely NOT Stated in the timeline that ZH came home and called police. Here is the timeline issued by LE:
http://www.wcsh6.com/assetpool/documents/131016071002_Picture Timeline.pdf

BBM: If ZH left her place of emplot at 7 PM she would not have been home untill 7:47 PM. ZH does NOT work at a nursing home nearby, she works at Mountain View community in Ossipee. Here is where it says where she worked;
http://www.conwaydailysun.com/index...20-mountain-view-rallies-for-hernandez-family
Here is where it says what the address is;
http://www.carrollcountynh.net/pages/CarrollcountyNH_Nursing/index
Here is where it shows the driving time:
https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...ReAI0uqCzTDFKE7ooUSMOkA&gl=us&mra=ls&t=m&z=10
With a theory, if it is not at least based on accurate fact and available evidence it only creates confusion. theories based on a series of assumptions are worthless IMO., and is muddying the water as far as distinguishing between rumors, conjecture and facts.

For all we know ZH may have arrived home in plenty of time to make phone calls or even take a ride looking for her - we just don't know.
If I have missed some reports on ZH's arrival time please someone let me know. This idea that she came home late and panicked has been around from the beginning and seems to be accepted as fact. Why?

Someone or some source said that her mom worked until 7pm from the start. It was never confirmed if she did so that day, or even that this was a fact, as far as I know.

Between making dinner, helping with homework, giving baths, I have tried to piece together where the rumor that ZH worked until 7PM came from...

It seems to have first started in Thread #1 with Post #151

"Maybe mom worked a shift like 7-7..."

Then Post #206 backs that up with...

"...your suggestion could be right."

Further support comes in Post #837...

"..., if she's a nurse she probably worked until 7PM."

Then, it get's incorporated into the story line as pseudo-fact with Post #912...

"So sometime between 2:30 and 7PM she (AH) went missing."

And, from then on, it was referenced as true by various posters. The reality is that we have no concrete evidence about ZH's shift time nor what transpired during the critical hours prior to the 911 call at 7:17Pm that night.

 

[Crickets]

ZH works in a nursing home, but she's not a nurse, correct? My guess is she works a standard 8 hour day...maybe 8.5 if they have unpaid lunch.

I've read several articles that say she's a nurse.

http://www.pressherald.com/news/Mother_of_missing_teen_makes_plea_.html?pageType=mobile&id=1&start=1

http://www.conwaydailysun.com/index...20-mountain-view-rallies-for-hernandez-family

http://www.unionleader.com/apps/pbc...07/131029197/0/newhampshire&template=printart

 

[Crickets]

If you head south from Walmart and go towards Maine, the road comes VERY close to the river. That's almost a 10 minute drive. Wonder if the phone got thrown out the window.

But Maine is in the wrong direction from the cell tower where Abby's phone last pinged. If the phone had been taken towards Maine, it would have pinged off a tower in or near Maine, and it didn't.

If the phone got thrown out a car window into water, there are a couple of places to the north and west that are within driving distance (that could be reached during the time between 2:53 and 3:07). Towards the north end of North Conway (due west of Cranmore Mountain, where the cell tower her phone last pinged off of is located), if you drive west on River Road there's a bridge over the Saco River. A bit further to the west is Echo Lake. Of course, there's also Pudding Pond, but you can't just toss a phone out your window and have it land in that pond - you'd have to walk on one of several trails to get there first.

 

[MamaJoJo]

If you head south from Walmart and go towards Maine, the road comes VERY close to the river. That's almost a 10 minute drive. Wonder if the phone got thrown out the window.

The phone pinged "West of Cranmore mountain" at 3:07pm. This ping came from the tower on top of Cranmore mountain (in North Conway). If the phone was traveling South, I would think it would have pinged off of the tower in Conway (near where you are thinking).

 

[takeitfromme412]

so they have the same nationwide coverage? And the difference would be just less info, like a pic of a car for an amber alert and less heightened emergency? I'm hoping it reaches the same amount of places?

An amber alert also becomes like instant news to the public, emergency broadcast system will broadcast it, news agencies etc.....

A BOLO is for LE only unless they notify the public for whatever reason they feel they should.... usually only missing persons that are not covered by amber alert

 

[rizzo0904]

Okay. Ignore my posts tonight...brain not working well!

 

[Mom24]

Between making dinner, helping with homework, giving baths, I have tried to piece together where the rumor that ZH worked until 7PM came from...

It seems to have first started in Thread #1 with Post #151

Then Post #206 backs that up with...

Further support comes in Post #837...

Then, it get's incorporated into the story line as pseudo-fact with Post #912...


And, from then on, it was referenced as true by various posters. The reality is that we have no concrete evidence about ZH's shift time nor what transpired during the critical hours prior to the 911 call at 7:17Pm that night.

Yup, there was an early post stating that it was probable that ZH got home at 7pm. In post #837 I posted in response to Catfancier using that probable 7pm timeline: I agree, there had to be some sign of something wrong in the house. Mom called the police at 7:17pm, if she's a nurse she probably worked until 7pm and then came straight home. I just can't imagine coming home, not finding my child in the house and immediately calling the police. I'd call friends, wait for some time, assume the child might be out somewhere but I wouldn't assume they were in danger until some time later, certainly not upon arriving home. So I'm assuming she saw something when she got home, signs of struggle, blood, etc. Hadn't thought someone else may have found phone.


then in post #840 Dee posted in response to my supposition from a previous post mentioning the 7pm home arrival time: On NG tonight was the first time I remember hearing Mom arrived home around 7:00. Not very much time to find phone numbers for friends & contact them to check if she was at someone's house before calling police. To me it makes sense that there were some serious indication that something was wrong or maybe she rec'd a panicked phone call or text? Perhaps that is why things moved so quickly from the beginning?
and that's how the arrival home time of 7pm became fact. MSM didn't report nor did LE. I don't know how others feel about NG, but unless her "facts" are corroborated by MSM or LE I'm not completely comfortable with depending on them. I don't mean any disrespect to NG, but we don't know who her sources are for information so they could very well be suppositions on her part or rumor. So all that being said, I agree we should throw out the 7pm home arrival time.
I'm still leaning toward the opinion that something happened in that home to alert ZH that there were problems. There's just too many odd things said and too much evidence that AH made it at least to her driveway if not inside the house. They treated the house like a crime scene and in several news articles it was said that they had various indications that AH had made it home that day, not just the reliance on the dogs.
Just wanted to add one more FYI. In a previous life I was a nurse, and typical shifts are 3pm - 11pm, 11pm - 7am and 7am-3pm, at least for RN's. ZH may have been a CNA or LPN which would have a different sched. system and an even different sched if she were per diem (don't know how the place she worked at operates).

actually it was a reporter named Michael Board from WOAI that said this on the NG show:BOARD: Well, she was last seen leaving her school. Her friends were on the school bus, they saw her walking out of her school about 2:30 in the afternoon. Her mom got home from her nursing job about 7 o`clock that night, she was not there, her mom started panicking, called the cops. She has not been seen from since. There`s been a massive search -- air, ground, water, in ponds, in rivers -- no sign of this beautiful 15-year-old girl.

again, still not sure we can trust that info.....

 

[cluciano63]

An amber alert also becomes like instant news to the public, emergency broadcast system will broadcast it, news agencies etc.....

A BOLO is for LE only unless they notify the public for whatever reason they feel they should.... usually only missing persons that are not covered by amber alert

Right but the main usage of an AA at one time were those digital signs on highways, showing car description and plate number. An AA simply indicating a basic description of a fifteen-yr old girl with long brown hair...would be basically worthless, IMO. And whatever kind of "alert" you want to call it, I think that in this case, word and her photo got out quickly and was done effectively. JMO

I really think a vehicle is needed for an effective AA, in most cases.

 

[Mom24]

An amber alert also becomes like instant news to the public, emergency broadcast system will broadcast it, news agencies etc.....

A BOLO is for LE only unless they notify the public for whatever reason they feel they should.... usually only missing persons that are not covered by amber alert

so both amber alerts and the nat'l crime reports go nationwide, but only the amber alert is for the public. Harumph. I was hoping it was as public as the amber alert system, looking for a smidge of hope that AH's face is out there across the nation. So even at this stage an amber alert would be worth a more. Wish someone had seen something and would remember it and report it.

 

[Mom24]

Right but the main usage of an AA at one time were those digital signs on highways, showing car description and plate number. An AA simply indicating a basic description of a fifteen-yr old girl with long brown hair...would be basically worthless, IMO. And whatever kind of "alert" you want to call it, I think that in this case, word and her photo got out quickly and was done effectively. JMO

I really think a vehicle is needed for an effective AA, in most cases.

I think the fb sharing was equally as effective. I received a message from someone in Canada asking if she had been found yet before they shared my original post, so the word is getting out there.

 

[cluciano63]

so both amber alerts and the nat'l crime reports go nationwide, but only the amber alert is for the public. Harumph. I was hoping it was as public as the amber alert system, looking for a smidge of hope that AH's face is out there across the nation. So even at this stage an amber alert would be worth a more. Wish someone had seen something and would remember it and report it.

Well she is in the FBI Missing Persons site...but the thing about missing persons, unless you are interested, you probably would not even know about them, unless you happen to see a flyer or a news report. Otherwise, you have to be already looking a sites for missing persons, really. Even with Amber Alerts...except for when they are brand new, you really have to look them up to know who is missing. IMO the average person probably has no recognition at all of names like Holly Bobo, Abigail, Hernandez, Maura Murray, etc...I know that no one I know does.