NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00 #2

[Gardener1850]

I was listening to the NHPR Bear Brook podcasts again and heard a detail I didn't recall before. When TPR was working at Waumbec Mill as Bob Evans he had a locked room at the mill that he wouldn't let anyone enter. I also had not realized that he was not just an electrician there but his title was "head electrician" which gave him authority to keep that room locked up. Horrible thought, but I wonder if he kept the remains in that room until he figured out how to dispose of them? Or perhaps he could have locked them up alive in that room for a while? That may be why no one would remember Marlyse, Marie and Sarah. Either way, I think he didn't let them live very long after they arrived in NH. There might not be any neighbors or teachers or classmates of Marie who would remember them being there. IIRC the isotopes showed they were all together with Middle Child in the same location for only a short time before their deaths. MOO.

Episodes — Bear Brook

 

[LeenC]

I was listening to the NHPR Bear Brook podcasts again and heard a detail I didn't recall before. When TPR was working at Waumbec Mill as Bob Evans he had a locked room at the mill that he wouldn't let anyone enter. I also had not realized that he was not just an electrician there but his title was "head electrician" which gave him authority to keep that room locked up. Horrible thought, but I wonder if he kept the remains in that room until he figured out how to dispose of them? Or perhaps he could have locked them up alive in that room for a while? That may be why no one would remember Marlyse, Marie and Sarah. Either way, I think he didn't let them live very long after they arrived in NH. There might not be any neighbors or teachers or classmates of Marie who would remember them being there. IIRC the isotopes showed they were all together with Middle Child in the same location for only a short time before their deaths. MOO.

Episodes — Bear Brook

That’s very interesting! Could it be that he kept the remains of the middle child in that room? I just can’t fit her into the timeline, nor into their lives. I wonder if maybe they never met at all.

The world’s definitely a better place with TR gone, but part of me wishes he was still alive to watch this all unfold and to realize that he didn’t “win”.

 

[Gardener1850]

That’s very interesting! Could it be that he kept the remains of the middle child in that room? I just can’t fit her into the timeline, nor into their lives. I wonder if maybe they never met at all.

The world’s definitely a better place with TR gone, but part of me wishes he was still alive to watch this all unfold and to realize that he didn’t “win”.

Although I think the smallest dark haired child in those birthday photos looks like middle child's reconstruction sketch, I think it's also possible they never met. Or for all we know Middle Child was living with her mother somewhere nearby and TPR could have gone between two households or only visited her from time to time. Or maybe he only had custody of his daughter on the weekends? Maybe the body of the Mother of MC is still in those woods and she hasn't been found yet? There are so many possibilities since we still don't know their identities nor exactly where TPR lived with any of them. MOO.

 

[Gardener1850]

That’s very interesting! Could it be that he kept the remains of the middle child in that room? I just can’t fit her into the timeline, nor into their lives. I wonder if maybe they never met at all.

The world’s definitely a better place with TR gone, but part of me wishes he was still alive to watch this all unfold and to realize that he didn’t “win”.

I also want to say, I get what you are saying about wishing he was alive but I also believe with all my heart that Terry knows today he didn't win. I believe there's a hell and he is in it reaping what he sowed while on this earth. Sometimes I think it would be great if he was alive so he could reveal what he did and where the other victims can be found, but I think he would have only continued to evade and deny it all. Watching those police interview videos with him after he had murdered Eunsoon sent chills throughout me. He is a cold-hearted, sociopathic killer and I don't think he was ever going to tell anything he ever did. He wasn't the type of SK who wanted notoriety. It's a shame there can't be earthy justice for the rest of his victims but at least he died alone in prison and not while free. MOO.

 

[Alleykins]

I also want to say, I get what you are saying about wishing he was alive but I also believe with all my heart that Terry knows today he didn't win. I believe there's a hell and he is in it reaping what he sowed while on this earth. Sometimes I think it would be great if he was alive so he could reveal what he did and where the other victims can be found, but I think he would have only continued to evade and deny it all. Watching those police interview videos with him after he had murdered Eunsoon sent chills throughout me. He is a cold-hearted, sociopathic killer and I don't think he was ever going to tell anything he ever did. He wasn't the type of SK who wanted notoriety. It's a shame there can't be earthy justice for the rest of his victims but at least he died alone in prison and not while free. MOO.

I'm thinking the reason he kept quiet about his past criminal history and took a deal for Eunsoon's murder was because he believed he'd serve his time, maybe get out early for good behavior, and reinvent himself again. I think he panicked when that investigator mentioned he sounded like he was from the east coast and thought they were close to linking him with the four victims. I'm convinced he knew the barrels were found, he knew of and used the internet. I think he believed he did what he had to do to keep of the radar by pleading, not realizing his conviction would turn into a life sentence.

 

[Gardener1850]

I'm thinking the reason he kept quiet about his past criminal history and took a deal for Eunsoon's murder was because he believed he'd serve his time, maybe get out early for good behavior, and reinvent himself again. I think he panicked when that investigator mentioned he sounded like he was from the east coast and thought they were close to linking him with the four victims. I'm convinced he knew the barrels were found, he knew of and used the internet. I think he believed he did what he had to do to keep of the radar by pleading, not realizing his conviction would turn into a life sentence.

It's certainly a good possibly he knew about the barrels being found. Another detail from the podcasts I had forgotten about-- when he murdered Eunsoon he used her email account to try to keep her friends and family from figuring out she was dead. He sent emails pretending to be Eunsoon and telling them to leave her alone. Her family said the emails didn't sound like Eunsoon. If he was using her email while living in her house, he was also using Eunsoon's internet and could have looked for news on all of his past victims. I wonder if they kept Eunsoon's computer? It's never been mentioned if they have checked his internet searches from back then so I wonder if her computer was not kept in evidence? MOO.

 

[Alleykins]

It's certainly a good possibly he knew about the barrels being found. Another detail from the podcasts I had forgotten about-- when he murdered Eunsoon he used her email account to try to keep her friends and family from figuring out she was dead. He sent emails pretending to be Eunsoon and telling them to leave her alone. Her family said the emails didn't sound like Eunsoon. If he was using her email while living in her house, he was also using Eunsoon's internet and could have looked for news on all of his past victims. I wonder if they kept Eunsoon's computer? It's never been mentioned if they have checked his internet searches from back then so I wonder if her computer was not kept in evidence? MOO.

I was wondering if they checked/kept her computer, too! I'd read about the emails.

I don't know about anyone else, but one of the first things I did when I got on line was to do an internet search on myself, just to see what was out there. I can imagine the temptation would be just as strong for someone who committed a crime. Of course, he would have to look up RE to see if he'd been discovered, and when that search came up empty, all he'd have to do is plug in Allenstown or Bear brook, and scroll around, I'm thinking he may have found something. The second barrel would have been in more recent news by then.

ETA: One of the posts on Ancestry looking for Marlyse and her daughters was already on line by then, too.

 

[msphilosopher]

I was listening to the NHPR Bear Brook podcasts again and heard a detail I didn't recall before. When TPR was working at Waumbec Mill as Bob Evans he had a locked room at the mill that he wouldn't let anyone enter. I also had not realized that he was not just an electrician there but his title was "head electrician" which gave him authority to keep that room locked up. Horrible thought, but I wonder if he kept the remains in that room until he figured out how to dispose of them? Or perhaps he could have locked them up alive in that room for a while? That may be why no one would remember Marlyse, Marie and Sarah. Either way, I think he didn't let them live very long after they arrived in NH. There might not be any neighbors or teachers or classmates of Marie who would remember them being there. IIRC the isotopes showed they were all together with Middle Child in the same location for only a short time before their deaths. MOO.

Episodes — Bear Brook

If Marlyse was EE, then she couldn't have been held captive in that room because she signed for a certified letter at the 925 Hayward home.

However, not all restraints are physical. They were all sick and to our knowledge so far, didn't receive treatment.

 

[ClaireNC]

I'm thinking the reason he kept quiet about his past criminal history and took a deal for Eunsoon's murder was because he believed he'd serve his time, maybe get out early for good behavior, and reinvent himself again. I think he panicked when that investigator mentioned he sounded like he was from the east coast and thought they were close to linking him with the four victims. I'm convinced he knew the barrels were found, he knew of and used the internet. I think he believed he did what he had to do to keep of the radar by pleading, not realizing his conviction would turn into a life sentence.

It totally blows my mind that he managed to plead out of the SA charges in Lisa’s case. I get the impression that he was cunning and manipulative and managed to get himself out of trouble for a lot of things in his life. I agree, he probably expected to get out early and start all over again with a new identity.

The internet didn’t become mainstream until the late 1990’s. I doubt he used the Internet, however, I do think he knew that the barrels were found. He could have gone to the library to read the N.H. newspapers online.

 

[Alleykins]

It totally blows my mind that he managed to plead out of the SA charges in Lisa’s case. I get the impression that he was cunning and manipulative and managed to get himself out of trouble for a lot of things in his life. I agree, he probably expected to get out early and start all over again with a new identity.

The internet didn’t become mainstream until the late 1990’s. I doubt he used the Internet, however, I do think he knew that the barrels were found. He could have gone to the library to read the N.H. newspapers online.

He was arrested for Eunsoon's murder in 2002, so he definitely had access to the internet. He replied to her emails, pretending to be her.

 

[ClaireNC]

He was arrested for Eunsoon's murder in 2002, so he definitely had access to the internet. He replied to her emails, pretending to be her.

Bad wording on my part. I don’t think he was a regular user of the internet in the 1990’s, generally you needed a computer, modem and to pay for dial-up access. Not something a drifter would likely have, or would be able to afford. However, I do think he had ways to get news, like going to a library, and was probably periodically checking to see if bodies he had left behind were ever discovered.

I agree that it would be great if they could check Eunsoon’s computer. I wonder if they did?

 

[Alleykins]

Bad wording on my part. I don’t think he was a regular user of the internet in the 1990’s, generally you needed a computer, modem and to pay for dial-up access. Not something a drifter would likely have, or would be able to afford. However, I do think he had ways to get news, like going to a library, and was probably periodically checking to see if bodies he had left behind were ever discovered.

I agree that it would be great if they could check Eunsoon’s computer. I wonder if they did?

Sorry, I guess I'm just confused, I'm talking about the early 2000s, I'm not sure where the 1990s are coming from in reference to Eunsoon's murder, the context of my post. However, I agree he had other ways of getting information pre-internet, and could have found out the barrels from the places you mentioned.

 

[ClaireNC]

Sorry, I guess I'm just confused, I'm talking about the early 2000s, I'm not sure where the 1990s are coming from in reference to Eunsoon's murder, the context of my post. However, I agree he had other ways of getting information pre-internet, and could have found out the barrels from the places you mentioned.

Lol! Sorry for the confusion. I was talking in general about the 1990’s and you were talking 2000’s. I think we agree now.

 

[Alleykins]

Lol! Sorry for the confusion. I was talking in general about the 1990’s and you were talking 2000’s. I think we agree now.

Absolutely, LOL!

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

Regarding the birthday photos, I am leaning toward it not being in NH. Just by how furnished and decorated the living room is. Especially if they relocated across country. In my opinion it looks like Marlyse did the decorating. The poster, tapestry or mini quilt hanging, and horse statue look like a young 20 somethings taste. I honestly am thinking this was prior to them leaving CA just after the thanksgiving fight with her mother. Marie's birthday is early Dec so maybe they didn't flee immediately. Was Marie enrolled in school in CA? I agree with what someone said about them arriving in NH during the summer months.

 

[Alleykins]

Regarding the birthday photos, I am leaning toward it not being in NH. Just by how furnished and decorated the living room is. Especially if they relocated across country. In my opinion it looks like Marlyse did the decorating. The poster, tapestry or mini quilt hanging, and horse statue look like a young 20 somethings taste. I honestly am thinking this was prior to them leaving CA just after the thanksgiving fight with her mother. Marie's birthday is early Dec so maybe they didn't flee immediately. Was Marie enrolled in school in CA? I agree with what someone said about them arriving in NH during the summer months.

I agree that photo most likely was taken in CA, possibly right before they left.
Now that they can trace their last known whereabouts, finding out where Marie went to school might shed some light on when they left CA. I'm sure they must be working on it (or have been working on it). I don't know if anyone else mentioned it, but I suggested they might have arrived in NH during summer or close to the end of the school year. That could be one reason why they can't find Marie enrolled in any school and they were killed before the next school year. Or she was home schooled, but I don't know how popular that was back then.
It's possible he killed them and stashed them somewhere for years, then put them in the barrels and dumped them right before he and DB took off. I suspect now they left not because of financial reasons, even though that's what he may have told Denise. I suspect they left because someone was looking for Marlyse & one of her daughters (meaning a paternal relative).

 

[shebbear]

Now that they can trace their last known whereabouts, finding out where Marie went to school might shed some light on when they left CA. I'm sure they must be working on it (or have been working on it). I don't know if anyone else mentioned it, but I suggested they might have arrived in NH during summer or close to the end of the school year. That could be one reason why they can't find Marie enrolled in any school and they were killed before the next school year. Or she was home schooled, but I don't know how popular that was back then.

It's surprising how many children aren't enrolled in school. Marie may have been one of them. Schools usually require a birth certificate and records from the previous school. A family that is trying to stay under the radar may not have wanted to take the risk.
I wonder if LE has checked Head Start records or the records of other similar programs--or early childhood health programs in the various states where the family may have spent some time (if these records have survived). Perhaps Marie was served by one of those programs before the family left California.

 

[jpo74]

Finally!!

Marlyse, Marie & Sarah finally have their names back and can rest easy.

Remember they were very sick and unhealthy at the time of their deaths. Pneumonia.

Really? I haven't heard that before

 

[AliceInPain]

Marie had scarlett fever when she died and all victims were very sick.

Marie showed symptoms of pneumonia when found. (I wonder how that could have been determined when she had been deceased for years?)
Please list your source for this statement. It's complicated enough as it is.

 

[Alleykins]

Marie showed symptoms of pneumonia when found. (I wonder how that could have been determined when she had been deceased for years?)
Please list your source for this statement. It's complicated enough as it is.

Marie was treated for scarlet fever in CA in 1976. (timeline)
At the time of her death, she had some sort of lung infection.