NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00

[Alleykins]

But if it was an identified murder victim, wouldn't someone know her child was missing?

I didn't want to leave any scenario out. I figured if there was a slim chance the mother gave custody or an extended visitation to the father she might not have been considered missing by her maternal family.

 

[Alleykins]

I'm not sure if that's the final version; I pulled it from the thread and not that note. Hopefully I'll be feeling well enough to reword it to include his name as her father. I just haven't gotten to it yet because I'm still pretty weak. I also want to add his photo somewhere in it

Feel better soon, I figured you would catch it eventually.

 

[Alleykins]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3011dfca.html

Going off of Alleykins' comment about a mother found murdered, and her child missing. I thought I would look for missing little girls from the late 70s. I found this case - from California.

I considered Elizabeth Funchess, but she has a DNA profile and most likely is an automatic rule out, and her father was in the picture. What I found intriguing was their names, Elizabeth, which he gives as a spouse's name in 1980, and Diane, which kind of falls in line with Donna and Denise, IMHO

 

[Sierras]

Thank you, Irish Eyes and Alleykins. I did find Elizabeth's thread after I posted. I agree it looks like she's probably not our little Jane Doe (middle child).

 

[MissUnderstood]

Thank you, Irish Eyes and Alleykins. I did find Elizabeth's thread after I posted. I agree it looks like she's probably not our little Jane Doe (middle child).

Middle child is estimated 4-8 years old. Estimated time of death 81 - 84 so middle child would be born between 1973 - 1977 if approx age is correct.

Maybe missing persons from 1973 onward would be a good place to start. A female that left without children and then became a mother! Her family would not know if she did not have a child before disappearing.

Hoping these girls get their names back.





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[Alleykins]

Middle child is estimated 4-8 years old. Estimated time of death 81 - 84 so middle child would be born between 1973 - 1977 if approx age is correct.

Maybe missing persons from 1973 onward would be a good place to start. A female that left without children and then became a mother! Her family would not know if she did not have a child before disappearing.

Hoping these girls get their names back.
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The middle child is believed to be 2-4, closer to the older age.

 

[DaisyChains]

Nelida went missing from MA in 76, but she is a bit older than the child.

http://www.nampn.org/cases/delvalle_nelida.html

Cecilia is likely also too old, but I wanted to list her b/c she went missing in NY in 76
http://www.nampn.org/cases/pena_cesilia.html

 

[DaisyChains]

have wondered about these girls and their mother as possibly the youngest and eldest jane does and maybe Mary is the mother. Likely not though as some things are off and it seems way too simple a match.

http://jenniferjslate.com/2014/04/1...er-two-young-daughters-have-never-been-found/

 

[MissUnderstood]

The middle child is believed to be 2-4, closer to the older age.

Thanks for the correction, I was going by the first posts, they must have changed the age range at some time?


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[Alleykins]

Thanks for the correction, I was going by the first posts, they must have changed the age range at some time?
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Yes, the age ranges were narrowed down a little bit, along with the estimated time of death, with the most recent advanced DNA and isotope testing. Those results and changes were announced in a Nov. 2015 press conference.
According to that press conf., the latest time of death range was changed to 1980-1984, which before it was 1977-1985.
I'm thinking it might change again because if the suspect wasn't in the area after he and Denise left NH, he couldn't have done it. The time frame would have to be narrowed down to pre-1981, unless they can prove he was still in the area up until 1984, which is when he is documented to be in CA.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I considered Elizabeth Funchess, but she has a DNA profile and most likely is an automatic rule out, and her father was in the picture. What I found intriguing was their names, Elizabeth, which he gives as a spouse's name in 1980, and Diane, which kind of falls in line with Donna and Denise, IMHO

Only way this fits is if Diane had an affair with BE, or was pregnant before or while she met Ken Fuchess (like dEnise was when she met BE) or Ken Fuchess was BE. I agree timing and names are eerie.

 

[FlossyMay]

have wondered about these girls and their mother as possibly the youngest and eldest jane does and maybe Mary is the mother. Likely not though as some things are off and it seems way too simple a match.

http://jenniferjslate.com/2014/04/1...er-two-young-daughters-have-never-been-found/

They've been ruled out by DNA testing according to NAMUS.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Just had a thought, and this may be way out there based on the fact that most paternity tests I see show a 99.9 percent probability of paternity; however, is it possible that a relative of BE was the father of the middle child? Or, is the test they did proof positive of BE? I don't know what kind of DNA test they did or if they show different things. I am assuming that they would have just said "paternally related" if they weren't sure?

Just curious about this. BE must have had relatives at one time. Unless he murdered his own family too. Seems they could use genetic genealogy to trace his family just like they did Lisa. Wouldn't be surprised if that's in the works.

 

[Alleykins]

Just had a thought, and this may be way out there based on the fact that most paternity tests I see show a 99.9 percent probability of paternity; however, is it possible that a relative of BE was the father of the middle child? Or, is the test they did proof positive of BE? I don't know what kind of DNA test they did or if they show different things. I am assuming that they would have just said "paternally related" if they weren't sure?

Just curious about this. BE must have had relatives at one time. Unless he murdered his own family too. Seems they could use genetic genealogy to trace his family just like they did Lisa. Wouldn't be surprised if that's in the works.

(RBBM for focus)
Owut, I had the same notion, too, mostly because at the 2015 press conference the AG mentioned something about the strength of the victims' DNA profiles and I thought it to mean they only had mDNA or a very limited sample. That was one of the reasons they didn't want to compare it to the criminal databases, that and the protocol and standards were different. I think they might have used an even more advanced DNA technology to narrow this down, because they kept mentioning the company that did it.
They mentioned doing a family search with "Bob's" DNA, like they had done for Lisa, at the press conference. If they are successful in matching it his family, it may reveal his true identity but it may not lead to the middle child's, but maybe it will narrow down the focus.
It certainly will help them discover more victims, if there are any.

 

[Tssiemer]

How long had BEs DNA been in the system? Why did this take so long to come about??


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[dest]

I haven't read up on this thread too far because it is over 70 pages, but how much has the idea of them being held hostage long term been discussed? I feel like the older Jane doe could have been kidnapped as a child and had the kidnappers children which is why no one is looking for them! Kind of like Jaycee Dugard, sorry if this was over talked, I haven't read it all

 

[Alleykins]

I haven't read up on this thread too far because it is over 70 pages, but how much has the idea of them being held hostage long term been discussed? I feel like the older Jane doe could have been kidnapped as a child and had the kidnappers children which is why no one is looking for them! Kind of like Jaycee Dugard, sorry if this was over talked, I haven't read it all

Yes, that angle has been discussed at least once that I know of on this thread.
I think it was also brought up during the Nov 2015 press conference, too.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Just had a thought, and this may be way out there based on the fact that most paternity tests I see show a 99.9 percent probability of paternity; however, is it possible that a relative of BE was the father of the middle child? Or, is the test they did proof positive of BE? I don't know what kind of DNA test they did or if they show different things. I am assuming that they would have just said "paternally related" if they weren't sure?

Just curious about this. BE must have had relatives at one time. Unless he murdered his own family too. Seems they could use genetic genealogy to trace his family just like they did Lisa. Wouldn't be surprised if that's in the works.

It's not possible if the DNA has proved his parentage to 99.9 percent certainty. (the .1 percent is probably to account for the unlikely possibility that BE had an unknown identical twin somewhere - we are talking really remote stuff.

The "why" of all that is a crazy long and technical explanation of centimorgans, inheritance, and genetic sorting. The amount of shared centimorgans here indicated a parent/child relationship (people sharing roughly more than 3200 centimorgans.) Another relative like a brother or uncle would also show as being related, but the two people would share a lower amount of centimorgans.

 

[Plombage]

This has been posted before but couldn't found if they had been ruled out. Mary Stuart and daughters Jessie and Fannie.

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[Owutatangledweb]

It's not possible if the DNA has proved his parentage to 99.9 percent certainty. (the .1 percent is probably to account for the unlikely possibility that BE had an unknown identical twin somewhere - we are talking really remote stuff.

The "why" of all that is a crazy long and technical explanation of centimorgans, inheritance, and genetic sorting. The amount of shared centimorgans here indicated a parent/child relationship (people sharing roughly more than 3200 centimorgans.) Another relative like a brother or uncle would also show as being related, but the two people would share a lower amount of centimorgans.

Thanks Irish. I appreciate the explanation. Just want to make it clear that we don't know what his percentage was . I just used that percentage as an example