Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 #10 *Arrest*

[Chris_Texas]

SFS and BBM

Parole comes after a convict has served a portion of their sentence, given they are eligible for parole at the time of sentencing. I don't really see how denying parole comes into play on how fast someone should be arrested.

Perhaps you were thinking about "Bail". Bail would be the surety that is posted to ensure the person charge with the crime shows up for court.

What you are referring to as "squeeze" is called "Dismiss Without Prejudice".

JMO

Yes, sorry, the correct word would be bail.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I wonder, besides tox reports coming back & possible perp in hospital, if they are waiting for a grand jury to convene to get an indictment? Any of three could delay a charge.

It's not too unusual yet to take this long. I hope it's one of those 3 reasons above instead of no evidence to charge someone with.

Patience is a virtue, I guess.

 

[Chris_Texas]

I feel like I might be overlooking something in the conversation here about the circumstances surrounding Celina's death, maybe because I'm not as familiar with the LE lingo.

Since JY stated that the body was placed in the water, and that the death was suspicious based on visual inspection, is it possible that a covered up accident would qualify as suspicious? I guess what I'm asking is, is JY assumed to be saying that the fact that Celina's was "placed" in the river--which implies she didn't put herself there-could be a covered up accident or homicide? Or just homicide?

I had assumed that the statements that Celina's death was suspicious, based on visual inspection, meant that she had been murdered. For example, I was imagining that they had seen Celina had been restrained, or some such thing.

I guess what it boils down to for me is, can JY deeming the circumstances suspicious encompass someone disposing of Celina's body after an accident? Or does it strictly mean that LE can tell me looking that harm was done to her in the process of how she died?

Long day, not sure if any of this makes sense, so I appreciate your patience!

We dont know. Suspicious is a slippery word. Any time there are questions and no obvious answers, it's suspicious. If Celina were discovered wearing her swimming suit and a scuba tank it would be suspicious until police determined where the scuba tank came from and if she had a history of early morning solo dives.

Suspicious is one of those fantastic subjective words that LE love so well. Since it can mean anything, it covers pretty much every eventuality so far as the police are concerned. But what that wonderful word does NOT provide is any kind of answer to the public paying for those answers.

Here's my next prediction: in my opinion they are not going to release the autopsy report in this case until the media files a suit to force them to do so. They will do everything in their power to prevent the public from knowing anything at all, not to protect the case they don't (in my opinion) have, but because it protects THEM from public review.

Hopefully I am wrong. Hopefully Celina gets justice. Hopefully her family and the public gets some answers, even if those answers are nothing more than "This is what we know."

 

[The Farm]

Well just got my power back and what a disaster. Was hoping for some news on Celina> nothing yet huh?

 

[elepher50]

Well just got my power back and what a disaster. Was hoping for some news on Celina> nothing yet huh?

Just got power back from the Irene storm? No sadly, no new news.

 

[cluciano63]

Suspicious can mean anything. It does not have to mean "homicide"; just that something about the circumstances were not indicative of a natural or accidental death right off the bat and being that Celina was 11, there would be nothing natural about her being found in the river, no matter how she died, unless she was seen falling out of a boat.

 

[joypath]

I feel like I might be overlooking something in the conversation here about the circumstances surrounding Celina's death, maybe because I'm not as familiar with the LE lingo.

Since JY stated that the body was placed in the water, and that the death was suspicious based on visual inspection, is it possible that a covered up accident would qualify as suspicious? I guess what I'm asking is, is JY assumed to be saying that the fact that Celina's was "placed" in the river--which implies she didn't put herself there-could be a covered up accident or homicide? Or just homicide?

I had assumed that the statements that Celina's death was suspicious, based on visual inspection, meant that she had been murdered. For example, I was imagining that they had seen Celina had been restrained, or some such thing.

I guess what it boils down to for me is, can JY deeming the circumstances suspicious encompass someone disposing of Celina's body after an accident? Or does it strictly mean that LE can tell me looking that harm was done to her in the process of how she died?

Long day, not sure if any of this makes sense, so I appreciate your patience!

BBM/U PP#1.:twocents: yes, a "covered up" accident would definitely be considered suspicious. When an accidental death occurs, there is no reason to "cover it up" and discard or "place" a body in a secondary location, rather one calls 911 or HELP! HOWEVER, just because a corpse is discovered in an unusual location/or "covered up", it does NOT immediately equal the designation of a MOD of homicide or accident.
:innocent: Remember that there are 5 classifications of manner of death that are applicable on a death certificate.
:rocker: The death could be a natural one BUT somebody disposed of the body in an unacceptable manner, or it could have been a suicide and somebody decided to camouflage the death scene/condition. Yes, it definitely could be an accidental death (perhaps an aspiration?, an overdose?, a fall?) and somebody thought it would be brilliant to "hide the body". And the "piece de resistance", a homicide death is also a possibility BUT may NOT be identified "just be observation" at the scene. The last classification is one that most medical examiners :innocent: HATE to use but sometimes HAVE TO, undetermined, because the absolutes to the manner of death are not present to the satisfaction of the ME/coroner.:seeya:

:twocents: The direct interpretation of the terms "suspicious death" as utilized in this case seem to indicate that this child's death MUST be investigated to the fullest degree, that the full analysis will be a marathon of information vs a direct sprint.
:twocents: As food for thought, IF this death is a "tip of the iceberg", then good, hard & clean investigation will shore up a rock solid legal case.

 

[k4kathy]

I wonder, besides tox reports coming back & possible perp in hospital, if they are waiting for a grand jury to convene to get an indictment? Any of three could delay a charge.

It's not too unusual yet to take this long. I hope it's one of those 3 reasons above instead of no evidence to charge someone with.

Patience is a virtue, I guess.

I wonder if they are waiting on other test results, like histology test results,etc.
JMO, but I do not believe for a minute that LE would not warn the public if they felt like a killer was on the loose. I think this was a sexually motivated crime that ended in a homicide. A crime committed by somebody who had pondered the thought of sexually violating this child far before the actual act took place ( JMO ) , whether things got out of control and she died "accidently", it's still considered murder. I can't think of any rational reason a otherwise healthy 11 year old would die by "accident" between the hours of 900pm and 830am unless someone caused her demise. Really, if she died by accident, there would need to be a reason why? I really doubt she ever did, but if this child ever had illicit drugs in her system in the past, then hair samples could confirm this. What possible scenario would result in this child's death where it could be labeled an accident?
And yes, LE could be keeping a tight lip to guard the integrity of a solid case for when the responsible party is brought to justice. JMO
If this child died by accident, then I doubt it was from her own doing. I'm sorry that I can't be more openminded, but I can't give anyone directly involved in this child's life the benefit of the doubt. Something had to occur that lead up to Celina's death. The thought of her dying in agony and fear is heartbreaking.

 

[k4kathy]

BBM/U PP#1.:twocents: yes, a "covered up" accident would definitely be considered suspicious. When an accidental death occurs, there is no reason to "cover it up" and discard or "place" a body in a secondary location, rather one calls 911 or HELP! HOWEVER, just because a corpse is discovered in an unusual location/or "covered up", it does NOT immediately equal the designation of a MOD of homicide or accident.
:innocent: Remember that there are 5 classifications of manner of death that are applicable on a death certificate.
:rocker: The death could be a natural one BUT somebody disposed of the body in an unacceptable manner, or it could have been a suicide and somebody decided to camouflage the death scene/condition. Yes, it definitely could be an accidental death (perhaps an aspiration?, an overdose?, a fall?) and somebody thought it would be brilliant to "hide the body". And the "piece de resistance", a homicide death is also a possibility BUT may NOT be identified "just be observation" at the scene. The last classification is one that most medical examiners :innocent: HATE to use but sometimes HAVE TO, undetermined, because the absolutes to the manner of death are not present to the satisfaction of the ME/coroner.:seeya:

:twocents: The direct interpretation of the terms "suspicious death" as utilized in this case seem to indicate that this child's death MUST be investigated to the fullest degree, that the full analysis will be a marathon of information vs a direct sprint.
:twocents: As food for thought, IF this death is a "tip of the iceberg", then good, hard & clean investigation will shore up a rock solid legal case.

But for every "for instance" you mentioned, there is a "'why" these instances might have occurred. What would prompt somebody to hide the body of an 11 year old if it were suicide or accident? I know that as a ME, you can only base facts upon your findings, but in your experience, how many times have you encountered a case where a young person dies by accident and the body is hidden? It just seems so out there to me. It could be much more common than I think, I don't know???

 

[Dr. Know?]

With just what I've read, I will give the idea of an accidental overdose due to possible drugs in the house. But...an adult gave or allowed Celina access to it? Or Celina snuck pills and died from an od but someone hid the death due to it being their meds or someone was dealing in drugs at the house, being a family member? That's about as nice I can be right now. i'll keep thinking though.

 

[JeannieC]

I wonder if they are waiting on other test results, like histology test results,etc.
JMO, but I do not believe for a minute that LE would not warn the public if they felt like a killer was on the loose. I think this was a sexually motivated crime that ended in a homicide. A crime committed by somebody who had pondered the thought of sexually violating this child far before the actual act took place ( JMO ) , whether things got out of control and she died "accidently", it's still considered murder. I can't think of any rational reason a otherwise healthy 11 year old would die by "accident" between the hours of 900pm and 830am unless someone caused her demise. Really, if she died by accident, there would need to be a reason why? I really doubt she ever did, but if this child ever had illicit drugs in her system in the past, then hair samples could confirm this. What possible scenario would result in this child's death where it could be labeled an accident?
And yes, LE could be keeping a tight lip to guard the integrity of a solid case for when the responsible party is brought to justice. JMO
If this child died by accident, then I doubt it was from her own doing. I'm sorry that I can't be more openminded, but I can't give anyone directly involved in this child's life the benefit of the doubt. Something had to occur that lead up to Celina's death. The thought of her dying in agony and fear is heartbreaking.

I agree. IF her death was an accident it happened either while she was fighting to avoid a sexual assault or someone was out of control and she took the blunt of whatever was happening. For example, someone was drunk or high on drugs, or having a mental episode. She got in the way and somehow she was knocked down or struck or something. The person then realized what he had done and took her body to the lake.

I believe she met her demise in that house and her body was removed.

MOO

 

[Radichio77885]

I agree. IF her death was an accident it happened either while she was fighting to avoid a sexual assault or someone was out of control and she took the blunt of whatever was happening. For example, someone was drunk or high on drugs, or having a mental episode. She got in the way and somehow she was knocked down or struck or something. The person then realized what he had done and took her body to the lake.

I believe she met her demise in that house and her body was removed.

MOO

Obviously just speculation at this point, but I tend to agree with your scenario. In fact, it would not surprise me if the WN driveway episode was some kind of acting out or replay of what happened and/or was observed. I can think of multiple examples from working with severely psychotic individuals where behavior that appeared strange, bizarre or irrational could be understood once the motivation or association (albeit often very loose) was discovered. Generally speaking, human behavior isn't random. It would be interesting to know what he was saying at that time or what occurred immediately beforehand. JMHO

 

[joypath]

But for every "for instance" you mentioned, there is a "'why" these instances might have occurred. What would prompt somebody to hide the body of an 11 year old if it were suicide or accident? I know that as a ME, you can only base facts upon your findings, but in your experience, how many times have you encountered a case where a young person dies by accident and the body is hidden? It just seems so out there to me. It could be much more common than I think, I don't know???

DISCLAIMER: :innocent: I have NOT been verified by WS as an expert (reason being: "My Boss & the "biggies" et al are okay with anonymous posting to provide INFORMATION regarding the specialty of forensic pathology (& to EDUCATE the public for funding purposes! (my theory!) BUT NOT AS A "reliable source", "consultant" (yeah, we can't moonlight without permission!) or any other possible "COURT certifiable resource""). :innocent:

That above given, as an intelligent (for today at least!!!) poster, :twocents: (N.B. always stands for MY 2 cents worth!), accidental deaths CAN and HAVE BEEN "hidden" be they the bodies themselves or the means upon which/by which the death occurred.
Yes, children HAVE been removed from a death scene and place BACK in a crib to simulate a SIDS death, repositioned & removed to another site to simulate an abduction, removed from a swimming pool to mitigate owner liability (GRRRRRR!), removed from a microwave oven and placed on the floor near "boiling H2O" to simulate an accidental burn, (I HAD to bold the entire story on THAT one!). :maddening::maddening::maddening:

So, those are just some RECENT experience that I am very familiar with for some very good reasons! I'm :innocent: POSITIVE that a literature search of the CDC database would present a few hundred or thousands more suspicious situations that never reached full legal involvement but that's another story for another day!:banghead:

:twocents: MANY people do very unusual things (including so called "professionals" since we are all HUMAN!) when encountering the deceased, the reasoning behind the behaviors are as varied as the persons involved but it has been stated by many with whom I am honored to share my mission, those who are "not guilty" of grave, severe wrong doing eventually ADMIT that the action(s) were "unique" and attempt to explain or at least try to bring the listener into their experience specific frame of reference.

:twocents: TURNING ACCIDENTAL/SUICIDAL/NATURAL MODs into "HOMICIDE" death type scenes, NOT one of the USUAL behaviors encountered and that's why ALL pieces of data are taken into consideration before putting a check mark in box #37 on the death certificate! :seeya:

 

[DLT88]

Obviously just speculation at this point, but I tend to agree with your scenario. In fact, it would not surprise me if the WN driveway episode was some kind of acting out or replay of what happened and/or was observed. I can think of multiple examples from working with severely psychotic individuals where behavior that appeared strange, bizarre or irrational could be understood once the motivation or association (albeit often very loose) was discovered. Generally speaking, human behavior isn't random. It would be interesting to know what he was saying at that time or what occurred immediately beforehand. JMHO

Interesting. Thank you for sharing your experience working with mentally lll people. Since he was lying face down on the ground outside the house that day, perhaps Celina's death happened while she was face down. He also came up to the table by the water where they had Celina's photos laid out and put them all face down. So this "face down" thing might be some kind of clue as to what happened that night. I would say smothering, but I would think that a body would show evidence if it had been smothered, i.e. pieces of fiber or maybe grass that was inhaled with force and ended up in her lungs or sinuses as she gasped for breaths perhaps. Just surmising.

 

[RT51]

There was an article on the front page of the Union Leader today. According to them, Mom and WN have seperated and are not talking to each other at all. She is back to work though. The article also mentioned the body wrapped in a blanket. According to the article, people are nervous and are keeping a close watch on their kids.

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20110904/NEWS15/110909962

 

[sreshowtime]

dear Celina...hoping some answers come soon so whoever hurt you can face the consequences

 

[Dr. Know?]

Seperated. With Celina's family dissin' him on Facebook as a friend, it's not looking good for WN. I think it's getting too obvious now and hope he's getting the care to make sense of all of this to help Celina and her family cope with this tragedy. Maybe even tell the whole story I hope. There might be more? Haven't a clue otherwise though.

 

[JeannieC]

Reward Grows In Celina Cass Case

State Still Waiting For Toxicology Results

WEST STEWARTSTOWN, N.H. -- The reward fund for information leading to an arrest in the death of Celina Cass continues to grow.
It has been five weeks since the 11-year-old West Stewartstown girl was found in the Connecticut River, not far from her home. Authorities said $665 was added to the reward fund for information leading to the arrest and prosecution of anyone involved in her death. That brings the total in the fund to $30,665, including a $5,000 anonymous donation and $25,000 from the FBI.

http://www.wmur.com/news/29081646/detail.html#ixzz1X4vpBgIb

 

[~n/t~]

Reward Grows In Celina Cass Case

State Still Waiting For Toxicology Results

WEST STEWARTSTOWN, N.H. -- The reward fund for information leading to an arrest in the death of Celina Cass continues to grow.
It has been five weeks since the 11-year-old West Stewartstown girl was found in the Connecticut River, not far from her home. Authorities said $665 was added to the reward fund for information leading to the arrest and prosecution of anyone involved in her death. That brings the total in the fund to $30,665, including a $5,000 anonymous donation and $25,000 from the FBI.

http://www.wmur.com/news/29081646/detail.html#ixzz1X4vpBgIb

It doesn't sound like they know for sure who the perp is. If they had their eyes on WN, would they still be looking at increasing the reward? :waitasec:

 

[Donjeta]

It doesn't sound like they know for sure who the perp is. If they had their eyes on WN, would they still be looking at increasing the reward? :waitasec:

I don't know if they have their eyes on WN or anybody else but it's a reward for information leading to the arrest and prosecution of anyone involved in her death. As such it doesn't necessarily imply to me that they have no suspects, it could be that they have one or more but still want some information before they feel they can proceed to an arrest and a trial. IMO.

Is the $665 an anonymous donation as well? It seems an odd sum for authorities to add.