Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 #11 *Arrest*

[bstnh1]

I'm wondering if they received a tip that led to more evidence. That and the final tox results to make their case.

Reading between the lines, I suspect Jane Young will hold a short and to-the-point presser tomorrow. I also suspect they will also arrest someone(s).

I pondered yesterday whether they were patiently waiting for WN to get his mental health treatment and become stabilized before arresting him. That way, there's no argument about whether or not he is mentally fit enough to stand for trial.

I guess we will have to patiently wait and see. I just want justice for Celina, her mother, father, and her sister.

As I've posted several times before, I don't believe WN had anything to do with this homicide. I simply don't think he has a sound enough mind to cover his tracks this well. The other male resident of the household is another story however.

 

[Joe Friday]

I doubt anyone is surprised at all by this revelation. And I suspect the AG's office has known this all along.

It does clear up one theory that had been going around that Celina might have overdosed and her body was hidden in a panic, by someone she was with that night.

So what COD would be so invisible during an autopsy that only until after the TOX reports were back could the the MOD be established as a homicide? Any have a clue?

 

[bstnh1]

From an AP article in Fosters Daily Democrat (Fosters.com):

"A family friend confirmed that Luisia Cass has separated from Celina's stepfather, Wendell Noyes. He has a history of psychiatric issues and has been in and out of hospitals since Celina disappeared."

 

[cluciano63]

It does clear up one theory that had been going around that Celina might have overdosed and her body was hidden in a panic, by someone she was with that night.

So what COD would be so invisible during an autopsy that only until after the TOX reports were back could the the MOD be established as a homicide? Any have a clue?

Unless the absence of any drugs (if that is the case) ruled out the chances that she fell or accidently drowned...I don't know.

 

[~n/t~]

It does clear up one theory that had been going around that Celina might have overdosed and her body was hidden in a panic, by someone she was with that night.

So what COD would be so invisible during an autopsy that only until after the TOX reports were back could the the MOD be established as a homicide? Any have a clue?

Poison

 

[GutInstinct]

Awwww, precious Celina. I am so so sorry. We will remain vigilant on your behalf...

 

[Chris_Texas]

What embarrassing questions is LN asking?

The most embarassing question of them all: What happened to my daughter?

 

[Chris_Texas]

I am sad but unsurprised at the news.

I am thrilled to see that the family, speaking out, is quickly getting some answers -- even if they were not the answers that they wanted to hear.

 

[Texsun]

I thank everyone for the news links. Some very interesting posts and ideas also from many. Two things stick out for me. One is the GM confirming "Celina wrapped in a blanket" and AAG stating "what was in Celina's bloodstream."

I believe we are going to see things start moving. The family has been officially met with and told the cause and tox. results. The public has been told what LE felt feels safe with for now and hopefully we are on to the next step. I truely feel for the mother, GM's, the bio father and other relatives. I have no sympathy for WN whether he is mental or not. The man has had nothing to do with anyone or shown any type of support or cooperation for Celina, his step daughter, or her mother, his wife. LE said he was uncooperative with them! I'm still not sure how I feel about KM. I don't like his past or what I have read of his present, which includes two pregnant girlfriends. I really don't like his looks or the fact that someone his age was cohabitating with a new husband and wife with two young girls in an Apt. I don't rule him out of murder or participation in what happened. I pray that finally one child that has been brutally harmed recently in the news has her case solved and the perp(s) proven guilty. This is going to be interesting to see who LE brings in.

 

[k4kathy]

OMG.

Celina Cass' Death Ruled Homicide

Cause Of Death Not Revealed



http://www.wmur.com/news/29269437/detail.html#ixzz1Yi9OQzQG

I knew this was a homicide, accident my foot.

 

[WizPro]

I don't think we really know too much more now than we did before the interview with Celina's aunt and WN's mother and the JY announcement.


Originally JY said "The results of the autopsy are PENDING."
I know that has been interpreted in a lot of ways by folks in and out of this forum. That does not say that they did not know the cause or manner. They are just were treating it as pending. I believe it was mostly a tactic to delay in releasing information. I doubt there was much surprise to the AG's office or JY with the toxicology reports. However, the length of time it takes to get toxicology reports is reasonably well known so she was obligated to make an announcement at this time. We are treating it as if it is new information and it may not be.

Also, I do not think there was necessarily a confirmation of Celina being wrapped in a blanket. WN's mother may just be regurgitating the circulating information, which I think we never really heard from a confirmed source. Also, listening to the video we hear the reporter say it not WN's mother.

The new information is WN's mother saying that WN was afraid to talk. That is something she is likely to know first-hand. This is just another factor that implicates him further.

However, hopefully the AG’s office has have been working diligently on the case and may be closer to an arrest.


I repeat a post I made before with some updates.

[TABLE="Factors"] WN KM
Unrelated male living in home with young females Yes Yes
Criminal background Yes Yes
Crime involving assault Yes No
Sexual crime Yes No
Several family members convicted of sexual crime Yes No
Quoted as "grieving" before death was known Yes No
Strange, falling down, behavior Yes No
Subsequent estrangement from family Yes No
In (or was in) federal institution, possible haven from arrest Yes No
Impounded vehicle still held by le (as of last reports) Yes No
Unwilling to talk (according to WN's mother) Yes No
[/TABLE]

 

[bstnh1]

It does clear up one theory that had been going around that Celina might have overdosed and her body was hidden in a panic, by someone she was with that night.

So what COD would be so invisible during an autopsy that only until after the TOX reports were back could the the MOD be established as a homicide? Any have a clue?

I don't believe that scenario is ruled out completely. Depending on the evidence they have gathered, the possibility may still exist that she was unknowingly given drugs by someone which resulted in her death. There have also been cases where someone has died from a voluntarily ingested drug and the person supplying the drug has been charged with the death. So I think a drug induced death is still a very real possibility here, although I doubt Celina would have knowingly taken drugs.

 

[Joe Friday]

I don't believe that scenario is ruled out completely. Depending on the evidence they have gathered, the possibility may still exist that she was unknowingly given drugs by someone which resulted in her death. There have also been cases where someone has died from a voluntarily ingested drug and the person supplying the drug has been charged with the death. So I think a drug induced death is still a very real possibility here, although I doubt Celina would have knowingly taken drugs.

Yes there have been many cases of people knowingly or willingly taking drugs, overdosing and dying, but those cases are classified as an accidental death, not homicide.

Since Celina's case has been ruled a homicide I think we can rule out that Celina was "willingly" taking drugs with someone at the time of her death and then the person disposed of her body in a panic when she died.

Supplying or distributing drugs to someone that willingly takes the drugs results in their death is a crime, but it is not murder or homicide. So since Celina's COD is homicide someone would have to be charged with murder or manslaughter.

Now if someone forcefully injected Celina with drugs then that would be considered a homicide, but since no one seems to be talking I don't think that is the case or we would have seen an arrest by know. In other words how would the ME be able to determine if Celina was given drugs against her will to know that this was a homicide.

If Celina had some kind of poison in her system than that would tend to lead to homicide, but killing someone with poison takes time and thought. It is not just a spur of the moment thing you decide to do at 9 PM. Trying to inject someone would likely create a struggle and the others in the house would have been alerted to something going on. You don't just come at someone with a needle to inject them with a poison (or a drug for that matter) and they don't scream or try and get away. Forcing someone to drink a poison like drain cleaner in a lethal dose would likely have the person running around the house for some time screaming in pain before they died. That would surly wake someone up in the house.

I'm sure their are drugs or poisons that someone could be given that would cause a death unsuspecting to the victim, but again that would take a lot of thought and planning. Something I don't think this case had. If someone took the time to plan on how to kill Celina with a poison or drug unbeknownst to her, they wouldn't have wrapped her in a "blue" blanket and dumped her in the river were she would likely be found. They would have planned a spot where she was likely never to be found.

JMO


Here is a recent case of two people being charged with supplying (distribution) drugs to someone that resulted in their death. Note that neither person was charged with murder. The lady in the case was even the one that injected the drug into the man that died. How did LE know that? Because one of them talked. Ironically she was the one that was acquitted of the crime, likely because she wasn't the one that actually purchased the drugs.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_f78f04c2-d027-11e0-9386-001a4bcf6878.html

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...0b3-11e0-a022-0019bb30f31a.html#ixzz1YWHXbqUy

 

[jadejazzkayla]

BBM..If you listen closely the reporter say's Louisa is required, to make the hour long drive to Lancaster every couple of weeks for questioning and updates.

This is at 2.28 on the second interview. http://www.wmur.com/video/29250275/detail.html

I just hope the meeting this morning with investigators was not another of her required meetings for questioning and updates and if their is any new information it is made public.

The reporter is saying the investigators are refusing to give LN information on her daughter's case unless she drives an hour to talk to them in person! I find this behavior perplexing and unfortunate.

 

[~n/t~]

Homicidal poisoning: the silent offense

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_8_73/ai_n6232019/

 

[Bullwinkle]

Celina Cass' Death Ruled Homicide

 

[~n/t~]

RELATED ARTICLE: Case Examples

Because they often display few visible signs, homicidal poisonings remain one of the most difficult crimes to detect and prosecute. All too often, authorities may certify a death as due to a natural or unknown cause, resulting in important evidence of the crime being buried with the victim. Therefore, a great number of homicides by poisoning are detected only upon specific toxicological analyses carried out after the exhumation of the victim's remains.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_8_73/ai_n6232019/pg_4/?tag=content;col1

 

[WizPro]

Celina Cass' Death Ruled Homicide

I think this is an example (the video above) of how the press introduces inaccuracies and distortions into a story.

Note the reporter says that the toxicology reports provided "crucial" information.

JY actually said the information was "useful", she then goes on to even minimize that by talking about how it is only a small piece of the puzzle.

 

[Joe Friday]

Homicidal poisoning: the silent offense

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_8_73/ai_n6232019/

The first paragraph in that article reenforces my earlier post that killing someone with poison takes time and thought. It is not just a spur of the moment thing you decide to do at 9 PM.

"Poisoning, of course, differs considerably from many other crimes, frequently committed in uncontrolled passion and in the heat of the moment. The innate character of the crime of homicidal poisoning demands subterfuge, cunning, and, what is equally important, usually a period of careful planning, and also not infrequently the repetition of the act of administering poison.... Its characteristic being one of premeditation, it is a method of murder, which, therefore, cannot be the subject of extenuation as some other forms of killing can." (1)

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_8_73/ai_n6232019/

 

[Joe Friday]

RELATED ARTICLE: Case Examples

Because they often display few visible signs, homicidal poisonings remain one of the most difficult crimes to detect and prosecute. All too often, authorities may certify a death as due to a natural or unknown cause, resulting in important evidence of the crime being buried with the victim. Therefore, a great number of homicides by poisoning are detected only upon specific toxicological analyses carried out after the exhumation of the victim's remains.


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_8_73/ai_n6232019/pg_4/?tag=content;col1

This portion of the article has to do with the ME not detecting the COD as being poisoning during autopsy. Since the MOD has been ruled "Homicide" in Celina's case and the COD is being withheld for now, I don't think that applies here.

ETA: Or even detecting the COD and MOD after the TOX reports have been reviewed and only until after suspicions where raised to exhume the body that it was determined that homicidal poisoning was the COD.

JMO