Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 # 7 *Arrest*

[Jo in Calif]

You know, I always assumed that was WN. It's not! I don't know who this guy is, but he can be seen in the 1st and 6th picture of this article, and WN is in the 5th (close up from Facebook.)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ows-increasingly-desperate.html#ixzz1UHmyKyKg

UG (unkown guy, lol) is a bit 'fitter', darker complected and has a bit of a handlebar mustache. Looking at his coloring, I have to wonder if he's a relative of LN...

Guy under the blanket wears his watch on his left wrist,.
Wn wears his on his right, wonder if he is left handed.

 

[cluciano63]

That is exactly what CA and the Anthonys claimed. An accident, fear, and a cover up. I can't imagine putting your child, friend, or family member in a lake or burying her because of fear. jmo

I was thinking of other slightly older teens perhaps, without much sense, and perhaps with drug use involved in some way...not necessarily her family. I don't think the age of the victim is as relevant as the mindset of the perps, if an effort to CYA is being made...anyway, it is just one theory, which may be disabused as soon as cause of death is known.

 

[nermal43]

Did the older sister sleep at a friends house or at an aunt's house the night celina went missing? If it was an aunt, was she in a different apartment in the same house? If she was out of the house entirely why was she home so early the next morning? Was she called by somebody looking for her sister?

 

[Kat]

The "family dynamic" in this case is bewildering right now, to say the least.

In almost every case (with the exception of a handful) each missing child or child murder I have ever read about had some bewildering family dynamics going on. JMHO Yup I agree with you.

 

[elmomom]

I would also be curious to know if there are statistics available regarding children who have departed this earth too early. (i.e. run over by car accidentally, parent accidentally rolled over while sleeping... I mean unintentional or intentional fatal injuries ) What could statistics show are the most common reasons an 11 year old would die.

This was the most interesting article I could find: Cinderella effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Alternative hypotheses
It has been noted by multiple researchers that child abuse is an intricate issue and is affected by other factors.[15][37][38] Daly and Wilson state, however, that even if evolutionary psychology cannot account for every instance of stepparental abuse, this does not invalidate their empirical findings.[34]
Burgess and Drais propose that child maltreatment is too complex to be explained fully by genetic relatedness alone and cite other reasons for child maltreatment, such as social factors, ecological factors and child traits such as disability and age.[15] However, they also note that these traits are simply indicative, and do not inevitably lead to child maltreatment.[15] Temrin and colleagues also suggest that there may be other factors involved with child homicide, such as prior convictions, drug abuse problems, lost custody battles and mental health problems.[37]
In 1984, Giles-Sims and David Finkelhor categorized and evaluated five possible hypotheses that could explain the Cinderella effect: “social-evolutionary theory,” “normative theory,” “stress theory,” “selection factors” and “resource theory”. The social-evolutionary theory is based on the proposal that non-genetically related parents will invest less in costly parental duties, due to the fact that their genes are not being passed on by that individual. The normative theory proposes that, due to genetic repercussions, incest among genetically related individuals is a widespread taboo and would thus be less common among biological relatives. They propose that incest among stepfamilies would be less taboo, since there is no risk of genetic degradation. The stress theory proposes that increased stressors, which are inherently more common among stepfamilies, cause an increased risk of abuse. The selection factors theory proposes that individuals who are likely to be stepparents (divorcees) are likely to be inherently more violent due to emotional disturbances, aggressive impulses, and self-esteem issues. Due to this, stepparents as a group would have a higher proportion of individuals with violent-prone characteristics, which would suggest that the abuse is happening due to personality factors, rather than the stepparental relationship directly. Finally, according to resource theory, individuals who contribute resources are granted authority, while individuals that lack resources are denied authority and more likely to resort to violence to obtain authority. It is therefore hypothesized that stepparents who are able to contribute resources to a family and have those resources be accepted by the family are less likely to be abusive. However, this hypothesis had yet to be tested directly on stepfamilies.[38] This paper of Giles-Sims and Finkelhor predates however practically all empirical studies on the Cinderella effect."

Wow that was some read. LOL I'm out of practice (unemployed ). In any case, I bolded the one and only thing I think that is not in place. Since I keep reading (over and over) that WN most likely does fairly well financially from his combined disability payments due to his service, and illness, I think it is likely that he was supporting the family more than LCN was as a store clerk. However, not knowing the family dynamics, I really don't know how they managed their money, and often it is common in older couples in a 2nd or 3rd marriage to keep their finances separate.

 

[katydid23]

I think the problem I have agreeing with this sentiment is that I either trust someone or I don't. If I trust someone enough to bring him into the house, the sleeping locations wouldn't matter to me. If they did, then I wouldn't trust the person enough to bring him in the house. But I totally understand what you're saying and it is hard to imagine trusting either of the 2 enough to take them in!!!

I see your point, and I wish I could feel total absolute trust in someone I might bring into my house. I see 'trust' as a continuim. I may trust someone enough to hire them, but would not give them the keys to the cash register right away.

That is how I feel about the sleeping arrangements. THe middle of the night while everyone is asleep and the kids are trapped in their bedrooms is a very dangerous time in terms of sexual abuse. Sure, if the perp lived there he would have other opportunities. But one assumes the girls have more freedom and safety during the day, making it easier to keep a perp out of their beds. During the day it is 'safer' in some ways. But of course, anything can happen at anytime. I just think that keeping them safe during the night is a very important component overall. Believe me, a child feels utterly helpless if a sex offender has complete access to their bedroom every night.

So if I had a young friend or relative that needed a place to live, and I trusted them, I would still place my own kids in the safest place I could, while I learned if the new room mate deserved my trust or not.

 

[snarkymalarkey]

Wow that was some read. LOL I'm out of practice (unemployed ). In any case, I bolded the one and only thing I think that is not in place. Since I keep reading (over and over) that WN most likely does fairly well financially from his combined disability payments due to his service, and illness, I think it is likely that he was supporting the family more than LCN was as a store clerk. However, not knowing the family dynamics, I really don't know how they managed their money, and often it is common in older couples in a 2nd or 3rd marriage to keep their finances separate.

Yeah I thought that was interesting too. What I think they are saying is, a step parent with income statistically is less likely to be abusive than a step parent with no income.

The New york one references some common reasons for children fatalities, some of the most common being: falls from Bikes, Being an Occupant in a car that was involved in an accident, being struck in the head with something (accidentally), choking.

I guess I would like to think that something accidental but awful happened,and due to guilt she was wrapped in a blanket and laid to rest in the river. ...and I wanted to know what all those accidents could be.'

 

[pgayle]

It says 'recently' and yet supposedly KM had been there a year. If they had traded recently I wonder what precipitated the switch. More questions.

Recently really doesn't tell much, and is relative.. it could be a year. Often terms are use in news articles like recently, newly, etc when an exact time can not be determined or verified.

Some one may tell a reporter he was there 6 mos. another person a year... and if you can't get the answer from a direct source.. vague terms are used..

I am disappointed that no arrests or announcements were made today..

 

[katydid23]

^this^

I totally agree with you. Every time I hear about the move to the basement it is related as "recent". A year ago is not "recent" to most people, and it always gets my hinky meter up that something ELSE changed. Recently.

Like MAYBE NN moved in as well. Maybe when KM moved in the sisters moved into the same bedroom. But when NN came to stay, maybe the girls were moved downstairs.

 

[Kiln Wood]

Just one added note. Retirement and disability benefits are based on time and grade. They also base it on percentage of disability. Depending on the type of disability. There is also a limited disability that allows for disability benefits and a final settlement after a certain number of years.

"Time and grade" are not factors in disability compensation from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs; the veteran must have served more than 180 days on active duty and have an honorable discharge or a general discharge under honorable conditions to be eligible for VA disability compensation. ".....final settlement after a certain number of years" is also not a factor in VA disability compensation; if the veteran is 100% permanently and totally disabled or is 60% disabled and is "unemployable," the VA pays the veteran at the 100% rate for life; that is currently $2673.00 monthly which is tax free with a spousal benefit of $150.00 monthly which is also tax free; there is a similar monthly benefit for minor children, but I do not have the amount handy. More information may be found at www.va.gov

Social Security disability benefits may also be paid to the veteran, irrespective of the veteran's qualifying for and receiving disability benefits from the VA, if the veteran is eligible and qualifies for Social Security disability; Social Security disability benefits are tax free. More information may be found at www.ssa.gov and www.va.gov

As always, to those veterans who read this post, thank you for your service and to Vietnam veterans, welcome home!

 

[MsFacetious]

I agree that it seems there is enough to think that this was murder. I think somewhere earlier this evening someone did a pretty good analysis of the AAG's wording. And it seemed apparent to me at the time that there was some visual evidence of what happened to Celina. And if that is the case... it's not a drug overdose (given to her - I am not accusing her of doing drugs) and it is likely not to be a physical accident (falling down stairs) since she was wrapped and disposed of.
So, what leaves visible evidence? Trauma, beating. Violent sexual abuse. Strangulation usually does.

You mean this?

From the autopsy press conference:

"Based on visual observation of Miss Cass' body both in the water and when we viewed it out of the water, we determined that the death was suspicious and that's why we launched a criminal investigation and we continue to go forward with that investigation."

What would they see visually in the water?
Maybe if she was wrapped, clothing, bindings or possibly any very obvious big injuries if she was not completely wrapped.

What would they see outside the water?
They would get a closer look. Stab wounds, gun shot wounds, ligature marks, etc.

There was a diver in the water so they could verify what she was wrapped in and see anything big if she wasn't totally wrapped.
I think the wrapping was what was suspicious IN the water.

They couldn't unwrap her in the water at all to look at smaller or less visible injuries.
I think injuries, clothing, bindings... whatever was under the blanket, was what was suspicious when they got her OUT of the water.

Long version about the whole autopsy press conference:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 - #6

 

[LaLaw2000]

Thanks, those grown men don't have their noses in the dirt for no good reason. These pictures along with this one are very disturbing.

I am just now catching up on thread. Has anyone mentioned what looks to be a heart either drawn or shadowed on the stone to the left of where Celina's body was brought up from the water? I was just startled to see it.

elepher50, it is in the pic you attached.

 

[JeannieC]

Guy under the blanket wears his watch on his left wrist,.
Wn wears his on his right, wonder if he is left handed.

Good Catch!

 

[elmomom]

You mean this?

From the autopsy press conference:

"Based on visual observation of Miss Cass' body both in the water and when we viewed it out of the water, we determined that the death was suspicious and that's why we launched a criminal investigation and we continue to go forward with that investigation."

What would they see visually in the water?
Maybe if she was wrapped, clothing, bindings or possibly any very obvious big injuries if she was not completely wrapped.

What would they see outside the water?
They would get a closer look. Stab wounds, gun shot wounds, ligature marks, etc.

There was a diver in the water so they could verify what she was wrapped in and see anything big if she wasn't totally wrapped.
I think the wrapping was what was suspicious IN the water.

They couldn't unwrap her in the water at all to look at smaller or less visible injuries.
I think injuries, clothing, bindings... whatever was under the blanket, was what was suspicious when they got her OUT of the water.

Long version about the whole autopsy press conference:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 - #6

Yes! Thanks MsF - I am so glad you reposted it. It really helped me focus on things.

 

[MarthaM]

Probably not likely, but there is always the possibility that Celina's death was not murder, but something accidental and the reaction was to panic and put her body into the river. I wouldn't normally consider that, but with the case of characters living in the home, it is possible.

There is only one reason to discard a body, imo. The person disposing of the victim is trying to cover up what happened to the victim and destroy any clues that may lead back to them if found.

I snipped those posts to make this shorter. Not only can I see someone discarding a body when they didn't intentionally kill or murder the person, but it does happen. And there have been examples on the news now and then. A group of people are out partying and one overdoes it and dies, and the others discard the body so that they can't be blamed for it (not necessarily just by LE, but by friends & family), or because they simply panic. I can see a person panicking if they think they'll be blamed for a death, even if it was accidental. I've thought all along that this is a possibility in this case, although it's not what I necessarily think did happen. Just something that could have happened.

I am just now catching up on thread. Has anyone mentioned what looks to be a heart either drawn or shadowed on the stone to the left of where Celina's body was brought up from the water? I was just startled to see it.

I didn't see that, but it wouldn't surprise me and I doubt it's connected at all. Bridges, dams, railroad trestles, etc. are prime locations for graffiti.

 

[Kat]

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20110807/NEWS03/708079981

The above link is more of a human interest story and does not directly address any facts about Celina. I just thought it was touching and Celina is mentioned.

Braley said. “It will never be gone. It's something you live with everyday. You grieve for the rest of your life.”

Ms. Braley suffered the loss of her son and is speaking about Celina's parents.

 

[MsFacetious]

Yes! Thanks MsF - I am so glad you reposted it. It really helped me focus on things.

No problem... feel free to repost it if you need to in the future. I get teased a lot about this... my family says "I cannot believe there is someone who thinks like you!"

When Jane Young talks my brain just translates what she is REALLY saying. She seems to think like I do... I understand her of all people. :waitasec:

Now if I could do that with men, in laws and my children... I'd be good.

I am expecting an arrest soon... :seeya:

 

[bstnh1]

I see that you are from New Hampshire. What are the street drugs most used out there. What drugs would Celina be exposed to?

Out West here it would be meth, or crack or pain pills I think. Maybe Ecstasy or Ketamine too.

The drugs available here are the same as most everywhere else. For the last year or two meth and Oxycontin seem to be in the news all the time. In the rural areas, it's pretty easy to set up a shed, etc. to make meth without drawing too much attention. But Oxycontin and other pain pills are getting the most attention. Pharmacies are being robbed constantly of these meds.

 

[gnomony]

The drugs available here are the same as most everywhere else. For the last year or two meth and Oxycontin seem to be in the news all the time. In the rural areas, it's pretty easy to set up a shed, etc. to make meth without drawing too much attention. But Oxycontin and other pain pills are getting the most attention. Pharmacies are being robbed constantly of these meds.

Agreed. But while pharmacy robberies get a lot of news media attention, semi-legit prescriptions are far and away the most common source of prescription drugs misused in rural northern New England. Any general practitioner can tell you the difficulty they have in determining who really has serious back pain, for example, and who does not. (And remember, felons can have genuine chronic pain, too, and be deserving of prescriptions.)

Someone who understands how to present convincing, non-verifiable symptoms (real or faked) that will elicit prescriptions can then go doctor shopping, get multiple scripts and have them filled at different pharmacies. This happens all the time -- big problem.

And the final step, sometimes, is that a vulnerable person with real pain (or good acting abilities) will doctor shop and get multiple scripts to supply a friend or family member (read: boyfriend), because of intimidation, fear of abandonment, misguided sympathy, or fear that, without a supply, the user will resort to crimes and end up (back) in prison.

(Until recently, I worked with LE tracking down such activity in areas including northern N.H.)

From what I've read here, I'd guess that quite a few people living in or connected to this house have multiple health conditions that would justify quite a variety of meds, including those typically subject to abuse.

(That said, I don't see any signs YET that this crime was about drugs.)

 

[Flossie JMO]

Jon Benet Ramsey.
No one was more convinced than I that it was the family, and likely Patricia. Now, not so sure. And if it wasn't her, she died a broken-hearted woman and for that I am terribly sorry.

Archie Lunsford was also suspected when Jessica was abducted by Couey

‪Mark and Archie Lunsford - Mark asked to ask father about Je‬‏ - YouTube
heartbreaking