Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 # 8 *Arrest*

[Kat]

I thought someone had posted that the bdrm was on the 3rd floor my apologies.

 

[nosysw]

We don't know where the mother's bedroom is located (3rd floor seems unlikely), and we don't know that Celina disappeared/was taken from the basement.

I think by 3rd floor, Kat is considering the basement the 1st, and the "Main floor", livingroom, kitchen (common areas), the 2nd...

 

[elmomom]

It doesn't make sense that WN would be posting on FB at 911am. Wouldn't LE be at the house by then? I just can't picture how this could be.....
LE- Sir, when did you last see your stepdaughter?
WN-Hold on a sec, I gotta finish my post on Facebook.

Just doesn't make reasonable sense to be on the computer fb-ing instead of scouring the area looking for the missing stepdaughter or at least consoling the disraught spouse.
Maybe the different time zones make it appear that WN posted on FB at 911am, could it have really been 711am his time? IDK.... I'm unsure how the time differences would show up. Can anyone help me on this?

It shows up as the reader's time. I am in the same time zone as WN and it was defintely written at 9:11 AM. I expect that was a little before LE arrived, as we do not have an exact time that they were called, he did not discover CC "missing" until 8:15 or even 8:30, had to call LCN, she came home... KL got home.. don't know that LE was called before 9 AM at the earliest I think.

 

[skier]

I slept well last night, but I went to bed and woke up a few times thinking about this case. I had some gruesome thoughts. So feel free to ignore me if you have a weak stomach.

The truck and trash can got me thinking about how someone would move a body from a basement. This is assuming that Celina was killed in the basement, of course. And we don't know that yet. But let's assume that for the sake of these points.

1. Celina was a tall girl, I believe. She wasn't light. The person who moved her had to go up stairs. This would be extremely difficult to accomplish without help. My son is only 8, and he weighs 80 pounds. I can't carry him very far when he's asleep. So someone had to be strong or had to have some help from a second person or from some sort of device. My money is on the trash can.
2. Moving a body, especially one that heavy, requires time. That means the killer needed a good 10-15 minutes to commit the crime, dump the body and scram.

3. During daylight hours, the killer surely would expect to be spotted leaving the house, jumping into a vehicle, driving down the road or standing near the river. To reduce this chance, the killer must have acted in the pre-dawn morning hours. While it's possible to dump a body in broad daylight, why would someone dump the body in town? Why not drive 20 minutes into the countryside? The person either couldn't risk being away that long or had some big cajones. My money is on someone acting quickly. That leans away from a stranger, who would have all sorts of time to dump the body in a location that is more difficult to find. Acting hastily also increases the chance of making some blunders and makes it likely that the perpetrator was trying to make sure nobody noticed they were missing.

4. The risk of being caught would have been much greater if people were awake in the house. This seems to suggest that this occurred while everyone but the perpetrator was asleep. With that many people in the house, it's likely that someone was up past midnight. Heck, I don't go to bed until after 2 a.m. a lot of nights. A lot of people are up and moving by 6 a.m. So this really narrows the window. They might be able to narrow it more via phone records and computer usage.

5. I sleep very lightly. If my wife walks into the bedroom, I'm awake. If someone flips a light switch, I'm awake. If someone in the house committed this crime, how did they do it without waking anyone? I can't imagine that they could. If this crime occurred while people were home, someone can tell the police who was up and moving around during the night. Or did the crime occur while the house was mostly empty?

6. The amount of noise should not be underestimated. If there was a struggle at the home, that would be noisy. The biggest noise probably would occur while moving Celina's body. Don't forget that someone went up the stairs and likely used a vehicle. Trucks tend to be noisy. If someone starts a truck in my driveway, I'm probably going to hear it, but I might not. If I'm a killer with a body, though, I'm probably not going to take that risk. That old house probably has some leaky windows and walls. Sound probably travels right through that place.

7. I'm assuming now that the trash can was used to move the body up the stairs. I'm assuming, too, that there is an exterior door to the basement. So the person moved the trash can down the steps, tossed this sweet little girl into the trash can and then moved the can. Well, you can't move a body that heavy without having to drag the can. So there should be marks on the steps and marks on the trash can. Plus, there could be marks on the truck or paint from the truck on the outside of the trash can.

8. A random person isn't going to know that a little girl is living in the basement. Only someone with knowledge could know that. So the person had to know Celina. That dramatically cuts down the list of suspects to locals and people who conversed with her online.

9. A random killer might grab a trash can from the yard. But that person isn't going to bring it back to the house. Only someone who lives in the house would do that. If that trash can was in the back of someone's truck when the police responded, you can draw your own conclusions.

10. They seized two trucks. Why a truck? Someone must have said something. Someone heard a truck running or saw a truck on the road. Did they see the trash can, too? So they decided to check out both of these trucks.

I predict that the trash can will be a key clue in this case. They could link the can to the stairs, to a vehicle and to the blanket/sheet used to wrap Celina. The fact that the can made it back to the house would put the spotlight on someone in that house. Phone and computer records could narrow the window during which the crime was committed, and that could determine who has a solid alibi and who doesn't.

Interesting, well thought out! It is my understanding Celina weighed 95 pounds, less than a grain bag farmers toss around easily. I still feel she went away from the house with whoever and sadly there met her demise. I am in the minority as most sleuths feel otherwise. However, I am keeping an open mind. skier

 

[Kat]

I think by 3rd floor, Kat is considering the basement the 1st, and the "Main floor", livingroom, kitchen (common areas), the 2nd...

thanks noxsysw It's 6:30ish AM here and I quit coffee when I quit smoking 9 months ago. I get foggy sometimes sorry about that.

 

[elmomom]

thanks noxsysw It's 6:30ish AM here and I quit coffee when I quit smoking 9 months ago. I get foggy sometimes sorry about that.

fftopic:
:star2::star2::star2::star2::star2::star2::star2::star2::star2::star2::star2::applause::applause:

wow I am impressed, I quit smoking 5 years ago and it is is still killing me and give up coffee too???? ouch!!!
Good job Kat!!

 

[k4kathy]

Maybe the computer will offer a clue as to whether anybody in the household was up during the night/early hours using it.
FBI/LE will surely need plenty of time to completely go over all evidence as it becomes available to them in order to have a rock solid case... so that the person responsible for this murder will be found guilty and not walk away from punishment due to some error.

 

[MarthaM]

Interesting, well thought out! It is my understanding Celina weighed 95 pounds, less than a grain bag farmers toss around easily. I still feel she went away from the house with whoever and sadly there met her demise. I am in the minority as most sleuths feel otherwise. However, I am keeping an open mind. skier

I have to keep an open mind, too, because I just don't feel as though I have enough info to go with any particular scenario. I'm still entertaining all possibilities... she was killed by someone she knows in the house, she was killed by someone she knew outside the house, she met up with a stranger who killled her, she was killed in some kind of accident and the person panicked and tried to dispose of her body, she drowned accidentally, etc.

 

[Magdalyn]

I slept well last night, but I went to bed and woke up a few times thinking about this case. I had some gruesome thoughts. So feel free to ignore me if you have a weak stomach.

The truck and trash can got me thinking about how someone would move a body from a basement. This is assuming that Celina was killed in the basement, of course. And we don't know that yet. But let's assume that for the sake of these points.

1. Celina was a tall girl, I believe. She wasn't light. The person who moved her had to go up stairs. This would be extremely difficult to accomplish without help. My son is only 8, and he weighs 80 pounds. I can't carry him very far when he's asleep. So someone had to be strong or had to have some help from a second person or from some sort of device. My money is on the trash can.

I think a grown man could easily haul 95 pounds up a flight of stairs when motivated by fear of being caugth with a body. Adrenaline and all that. And I believe I read that there is no trash pick up. So people likely drive their own garbage to the dump. I think if she was put in a garbage can it would have been once she was out of the basement.

2. Moving a body, especially one that heavy, requires time. That means the killer needed a good 10-15 minutes to commit the crime, dump the body and scram.
I think they had plenty of time. It happened under cover of darkness and the perp had between 9 pm and 8 am to do what needed to be done. And if they're local, they know how to avoid 'traffic'.

3. During daylight hours, the killer surely would expect to be spotted leaving the house, jumping into a vehicle, driving down the road or standing near the river. To reduce this chance, the killer must have acted in the pre-dawn morning hours. While it's possible to dump a body in broad daylight, why would someone dump the body in town? Lazy. And lots of criminals aren't that smart.Why not drive 20 minutes into the countryside? The person either couldn't risk being away that long or had some big cajones. Or isn' that smart!My money is on someone acting quickly. That leans away from a stranger, who would have all sorts of time to dump the body in a location that is more difficult to find. Acting hastily also increases the chance of making some blunders and makes it likely that the perpetrator was trying to make sure nobody noticed they were missing. Agreed, agreed, agreed!

4. The risk of being caught would have been much greater if people were awake in the house. This seems to suggest that this occurred while everyone but the perpetrator was asleep. With that many people in the house, it's likely that someone was up past midnight. Heck, I don't go to bed until after 2 a.m. a lot of nights. A lot of people are up and moving by 6 a.m. So this really narrows the window. They might be able to narrow it more via phone records and computer usage.

5. I sleep very lightly. If my wife walks into the bedroom, I'm awake. If someone flips a light switch, I'm awake. If someone in the house committed this crime, how did they do it without waking anyone? There's a lot of heavy sleepers out there. And if it's always an active/noisy, people learn to block that out.I can't imagine that they could. If this crime occurred while people were home, someone can tell the police who was up and moving around during the night. Or did the crime occur while the house was mostly empty?

6. The amount of noise should not be underestimated. If there was a struggle at the home, that would be noisy. Suffocation in a basement or on a cushioned sofa would be quiet. Even if it's just suffucation to subdue into uunconciousness.The biggest noise probably would occur while moving Celina's body. Don't forget that someone went up the stairs and likely used a vehicle. Trucks tend to be noisy. If someone starts a truck in my driveway, I'm probably going to hear it, but I might not. They live next to a pretty big parking area and a restaurant. I don't think they'd notice a car door slamming or an engine starting at all.If I'm a killer with a body, though, I'm probably not going to take that risk. That old house probably has some leaky windows and walls. Sound probably travels right through that place.

7. I'm assuming now that the trash can was used to move the body up the stairs. I'm assuming, too, that there is an exterior door to the basement. So the person moved the trash can down the steps, tossed this sweet little girl into the trash can and then moved the can. Well, you can't move a body that heavy without having to drag the can. So there should be marks on the steps and marks on the trash can. Plus, there could be marks on the truck or paint from the truck on the outside of the trash can. I think it would be easier/look less suspicious to wrap the victim in a sheet/big garbage bag and put the bag/bundle into the can once outside. If you're seen, you're simply 'taking out some trash' (sorry, Celina.)

8. A random person isn't going to know that a little girl is living in the basement. Only someone with knowledge could know that. So the person had to know Celina. That dramatically cuts down the list of suspects to locals and people who conversed with her online. Couldn't agree more.

9. A random killer might grab a trash can from the yard. But that person isn't going to bring it back to the house. Only someone who lives in the house would do that. If that trash can was in the back of someone's truck when the police responded, you can draw your own conclusions. Yep.

10. They seized two trucks. Why a truck? Someone must have said something. Someone heard a truck running or saw a truck on the road. Did they see the trash can, too? So they decided to check out both of these trucks.I also wonder if on visual inspection, these were the only two automobiles where they visualized anything suspicious.

I predict that the trash can will be a key clue in this case. They could link the can to the stairs, to a vehicle and to the blanket/sheet used to wrap Celina. The fact that the can made it back to the house would put the spotlight on someone in that house. In theory we don't know if it actually left the house, but I have suspicions about it too.Phone and computer records could narrow the window during which the crime was committed, and that could determine who has a solid alibi and who doesn't.

I agree with your line of thinking. For sake of discussion, I put my thoughts in red.

And regarding the RSOs in the area, I've considered it, but it's not where I'm laying my money. LE was all over that list and canvassed/questioned in the first 48 hours. If any of those RSOs seemed hinky/had no alibi/etc, I believe the AG would have already acted. :twocents:

 

[elepher50]

Interesting, well thought out! It is my understanding Celina weighed 95 pounds, less than a grain bag farmers toss around easily. I still feel she went away from the house with whoever and sadly there met her demise. I am in the minority as most sleuths feel otherwise. However, I am keeping an open mind. skier

Hi Skier,

Most sleuths have not stated their opinion one way or the other but are waiting for more evidence which hopefully will be coming shortly.

eleph

 

[john's mom]

I slept well last night, but I went to bed and woke up a few times thinking about this case. I had some gruesome thoughts. So feel free to ignore me if you have a weak stomach.

5. I sleep very lightly. If my wife walks into the bedroom, I'm awake. If someone flips a light switch, I'm awake. If someone in the house committed this crime, how did they do it without waking anyone? I can't imagine that they could. If this crime occurred while people were home, someone can tell the police who was up and moving around during the night. Or did the crime occur while the house was mostly empty?
.

Snipped by me....you made some good points, but you are assuming that everyone is a light sleeper. My sister can sleep through anything. I literally could vacuum her room while she sleeps and it won't wake her. Me? I'm aware if the dog comes in my room to sleep next to my bed.

Just sayin'.......

 

[Magdalyn]

It doesn't make sense that WN would be posting on FB at 911am. Wouldn't LE be at the house by then? I just can't picture how this could be.....
LE- Sir, when did you last see your stepdaughter?
WN-Hold on a sec, I gotta finish my post on Facebook.

Just doesn't make reasonable sense to be on the computer fb-ing instead of scouring the area looking for the missing stepdaughter or at least consoling the disraught spouse.
Maybe the different time zones make it appear that WN posted on FB at 911am, could it have really been 711am his time? IDK.... I'm unsure how the time differences would show up. Can anyone help me on this?

I saw the FB post and I live on the east coast. It was made at 9:11--it's accurate time wise.

 

[HeinekenMan]

One would not have to pick up a body and carry it far if one wrapped that body in a blanket and drug it to a door, drug it up steps (did that basement have a door leading outside? If so that would only be a few steps at most) drag that body to a vehicle, and then lift--see what I mean?

If the adults are on the 3rd floor and this happened in the basement I have no issue in believing that there was not enough noise if there was dragging that would alert anyone's attention. Many times I can't hear what is going on down on our first floor when I'm on the second floor as an example.

A killer could drag a body through a yard, but that's going to be awfully conspicuous. That's why I wonder about the trash can. It would conceal a body.

No matter how the body was moved, there is a good chance that some evidence would be available to indicate whether she was moved after she was unconscious/dead. Grass stains would be visible on a blanket or sheet, I imagine. There might also be a path on the ground where gravel or grass or dirt has been disturbed. A shirt could snag on a door frame or hinge and leave fibers behind.

As for hearing noise, let's remember that we're not just talking about noise in the basement. If someone living in the house was involved, that person had to walk across old, creeky floors, wash hands in a sink, etc. Someone is going to tell the police if other people were moving around the house that night. And there's obviously going to be a focus on the last person to go to bed.

 

[chief]

That is typical NH small town. There is plenty of info going on behind closed doors but these folks are within their own community, very protective of each other, take care of their own problems, do not like the media or outsiders sticking their noses into their business. If you ever interact in one of these small towns, respect their privacy and do not ask alot of questions. These are hard working decent folks who live by their own code of ethics. I remember going back to revisit childhood home in rural Vermont. Stopped at the country store to get directions as the years gone had faded my memory. I got no help until I started reeling off remembered landmarks. Got a big smile and "welcome home". My point! That's just the way it is!! skier

Welcome to New England!

That is how we are here. People talk and there is always gossip to be had, but not necessarily to outsiders and probably not to MSM.

 

[HeinekenMan]

Ya. Heavy sleepers might not notice much.

Some of what I wrote earlier is predicated on the idea that the can was used in some way. Obviously, it's just a theory. But I think it's use really would eliminate anyone outside of the family. It will be interesting to find out what evidence they have. Hopefully, someone can clear up this business about barrels.

 

[brighidin]

Sorry, Marcia Cass was incorrect (Marcia Laro is AL's mom). I edited my previous response:

Here is the obit listing of family members; is LN's mom Beverly Hibbard?:

Family members include her mother of West Stewartstown and her father of Columbia; her step-father, Wendell Noyes, or West Stewartstown; a sister, Kayla Laro, of West Stewartstown; her brother, Adam Laro, of Canaan, Vt.; paternal grandparents, Wally and Marcia Laro, of Columbia; Nana and Papa Beverly and Elliot Hibbard; and many aunts, uncles and cousins.

I've obviously missed something, but where did Celina get her last name? Or, from whom?

 

[cluciano63]

As of right now, there is really no way to know what may have happened, except that LE seems to be focused on those within the walls of the house...but we've seen that before too, when families were eventually cleared.

I do believe LE knows cause of death by now and may want tox results just to be sure as well as to add to a possible motive or premeditation issue, or additional charges. Still, there is always a chance, however small, of a stranger abduction in these cases. The thing is you can never tell, many unusual family members in other cases have turned out to be innocent. Am trying hard to keep an open mind...

 

[peace9274]

I've obviously missed something, but where did Celina get her last name? Or, from whom?

Celina's mother's maiden name.
Still trying to figure out why Louisa didn't use Laro's last name, when she already had a 2 yr old daughter with last name Laro.
Even if they were broken up by the time Celina was born. But still.....

 

[MarthaM]

Wow. All I see is a young teenage girl and her friends innocently acting like most teenage girls do. There is nothing NOTHING on that page to suggest that CC's family did not love her or that any of the girls are sexually advanced. Respectfully, I think you are reading far too much into this.

I have seen absolutely nothing to indicate that this girl was not loved by her family and friends. Nothing whatsoever.

 

[bstnh1]

Trash barrels are used in small towns throughout New Hampshire to haul trash to the dump, landfill or transfer station. It's not uncommon to see one or more trash cans in the back of a pickup truck.