NH NH - Elizabeth Marriott, 19, Durham, 9 Oct 2012 - # 7 *S. Mazzaglia guilty*

[Chelly]

What is scary to me is I am not sure how I would answer this question.
I honestly am not sure who REALLY is the more dangerous one.
(I think she pushed him to live out his fantasies...).

I am not sure I would say that she pushed him.
But, I believe that they were such kindred spirits, they fed off each other's energy and ENCOURAGED each other.

 

[minor4th]

I missed the Dr.'s testimony. Did he interview KM or is he just talking in general?
tia

I think he was just speaking in general about the dynamics of abusive relationships

 

[Xara]

Sure it could, they had Roberta and Paul's eyewitness acounts of seeing Lizzie there, dead, with bags tied over her head. They could, and should have imo charged both.

I don't think they could've proved murder with only RG's testimony.

 

[Xara]

I will pick, it's an easy decision for me.
Seth is more of a danger to society, and was probably more culpable in Lizzi's death. JMO

 

[A.D.A McCoy]

Thats not at all what I said.

You certainly implied it, in my opinion. You would excuse Kat and all her lies, just to get seth, the real perpetrator in a case with no body, no cause of death, and a sociopath as the star witness.

 

[Chelly]

I don't think they could've proved murder with only RG's testimony.

Yeah, probably not with those two always changing stories and the fact that Roberta and Paul didn't report the murder to the police. A shame Roberta and Paul choose not to do the right thing.

 

[Chelly]

They could have then both claimed it was an accident, and there would be no way to prove rape since theres no body

OK, no way to prove rape with no body. But seems to me enough evidence to prove murder with R and P's testimony plus disposal of the body by K and S.

 

[Littleone48]

Seth confessed to killing Lizzi when he was first interrogated.

He also confessed during the same time to things that Kat has testified to being the one that did them~ Who is covering for who?

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

they never mentioned if Lizzi fought back---just that she was strangled and died--

Sorry... I am behind y'all... As always...

But, Zoey, you have made a very interesting point here...IMO...

Are Kat and Seth so extremely self-centered that they couldn't even think about this aspect (poor Lizzi's struggling ) to add to their stories?

And/or...

Are their stories they are presenting so fake that they can't fit the aspect of Lizzi's struggling into them?

and/or......???

:waitasec:

 

[geevee]

They could have then both claimed it was an accident, and there would be no way to prove rape since theres no body

The only evidence a rape took place is, so far, from an acknowledged liar's mouth, we have no evidence yet of that. I actually think it sounds far-fetched that he would suddenly snap, send Kat a text about 'painting', strangle her with a rope from the box under the futon right behind Lizzie (as well as put gloves on without her seeing that either) and then have sex with her deceased corpse before having his girlfriend use his phone to call his Tarot card reader friend to come over and give him advice as to what to do next. That just sounds inane.

 

[Skigirl]

I know I'm in the minority, but I think that no matter how "advanced" or "sophisticated" (or unlikeable, for that matter) KM is, she was a teenager when a 28-year-old "performing artist" (which basically means a loser with grandiose fantasies about himself but who in reality who did relatively unskilled work as his day-job and participated the very occasional non-paying or local gig) culled her from her family and friends and started grooming her to be what he wanted in a "partner". I have no doubt that a woman his age with any self esteem would have laughed in his face and walked away as soon as he started yammering about his personas and his needs. KM found the attention exciting. She had more than plenty of issues, and has done horrible, horrible things, but I think that without him, she'd have been unlikely to have been involved in a murder, cover-up, or anything but a string of dysfunctional relationships, a job at Target, and a hand-full of local theater productions.

 

[Littleone48]

I saw the mug shot of kat. I saw photos of kat with the little smile on her face. She thinks she is an actress and an artist. She is self assured.

IMO kat wanted out of her parent's home and seth filled the bill. Yes seth was much older than kat but I don't see kat as a victim. IMO she was a willing accomplice until something better came into her life. I think you have to have the seed of evil to receive a text about painting and knowing something bad was going to happen do nothing, say nothing to stop it instead express nervousness about it. And I question if it wasn't nerves from a rising sense of excitement.

I agree with you 100%~ We have another poster here who knows Kat and has stated that Kat has lied on the stand about never being with a woman~ She also states seeing/hearing about her shortly after the incident and she was anything but "distressed".

I do not know Kat but I am familiar with Seth~ after hearing from our poster about Kat, speaking with some of Seth's friends that have met Kat I am really starting to lean towards the story that Kat gave in the beginning~ Reasons why;

1. Seth confessed to doing everything from killing her to dumping her in the water~ Kat has testified that she was the one that thought up the suitcase, the duct tape, turning off the phones, where to dump the body etc....

2. The wire conversations, same story, same everything

3. The searches on her computer, her online presence, her lying on the stand that she had never been with another woman

4. Seeing/knowing Seth, he is an introvert IMO... I always thought that if a woman ever said boo to him he would run the other way. I never saw a passive aggressive attitude from him~ I saw him in a romantic role and as a director with one of my good friends~

5. Being in the courtroom, speaking to friends of both of them, Lizzie was not IMO controlled, I think she was the controlling factor in this relationship~

I am not on the fence at all but I do think that both of them should be held accountable for their actions that evening.

 

[Jewels53]

I know I'm in the minority, but I think that no matter how "advanced" or "sophisticated" (or unlikeable, for that matter) KM is, she was a teenager when a 28-year-old "performing artist" (which basically means a loser with grandiose fantasies about himself but who in reality who did relatively unskilled work as his day-job and participated the very occasional non-paying or local gig) culled her from her family and friends and started grooming her to be what he wanted in a "partner". I have no doubt that a woman his age with any self esteem would have laughed in his face and walked away as soon as he started yammering about his personas and his needs. KM found the attention exciting. She had more than plenty of issues, and has done horrible, horrible things, but I think that without him, she'd have been unlikely to have been involved in a murder, cover-up, or anything but a string of dysfunctional relationships, a job at Target, and a hand-full of local theater productions.

Skigirl you are not in the minority here. I know KM is guilty to what degree I am not sure. We will probably never know the real truth of what happened the night Lizzie died. I don't believe even if SM was on the stand it would be the truth.

I also think Barth didn't do a very good job at impeaching KM, there were no Ah ha moments for me. It also should not have taken so long to impeach KM if she were truly lying. imo

jmo

 

[Nymeria]

I agree with you 100%~ We have another poster here who knows Kat and has stated that Kat has lied on the stand about never being with a woman~ She also states seeing/hearing about her shortly after the incident and she was anything but "distressed".

I do not know Kat but I am familiar with Seth~ after hearing from our poster about Kat, speaking with some of Seth's friends that have met Kat I am really starting to lean towards the story that Kat gave in the beginning~ Reasons why;

1. Seth confessed to doing everything from killing her to dumping her in the water~ Kat has testified that she was the one that thought up the suitcase, the duct tape, turning off the phones, where to dump the body etc....

2. The wire conversations, same story, same everything

3. The searches on her computer, her online presence, her lying on the stand that she had never been with another woman

4. Seeing/knowing Seth, he is an introvert IMO... I always thought that if a woman ever said boo to him he would run the other way. I never saw a passive aggressive attitude from him~ I saw him in a romantic role and as a director with one of my good friends~

5. Being in the courtroom, speaking to friends of both of them, Lizzie was not IMO controlled, I think she was the controlling factor in this relationship~

I am not on the fence at all but I do think that both of them should be held accountable for their actions that evening.

:goodpost:

 

[borndem]

Wow, Im kind of surprised that some of you do not see Seth as an abuser

Oh, I sensed it from the beginning, minor, yes -- a selfish user and an abuser of a high (i.e., low) order. Sickening & sick, IMO. And he was smiling the whole time, I'm sure. Grrrrrr.

 

[minor4th]

You certainly implied it, in my opinion. You would excuse Kat and all her lies, just to get seth, the real perpetrator in a case with no body, no cause of death, and a sociopath as the star witness.

I didnt imply it. I would prefer that kat be spending a longer time in prison, but I understand the deal that was made and agree with it as I believe Seth is the primary perpetrator and the driving force behind what happened to Lizzi, as well as the actual person who strangled her to death and raped her.

This is not just based on Kats testimony. It is based on Seths own writings and threats, including discussions about losing control and raping a woman because the darkness takes over. Also including as a punishment to Kat that Seth would kill her friend and then brutalize Kat. Its also based on Seths confession and Kats recorded conversations with RG in which she clearly identifies Seth as the killer. Among other things.

 

[Lori59]

Littleone....since you have been in the court room and know SM, I would love ur observations and thoughts about the dynamics at the defense table. Specifically, how the attorneys do not seem to talk to SM hardly at all. I have seen the woman a few times but never Barth. Also, the way SM sits there so quietly, never seemingly being active in his defense so to speak. I have to say I imagine if the state had made the deal with KM instead...she would be running the defense table and very animated not just sitting there quietly....TIA

 

[Lori59]

I do not for one minute think KM went to Barth's office to "help" SM. I think she went there on a snooping mission to find out if SM was turning on her....she as much admitted that on cross. I also think she told the real version to them in order to feel out what kind of defense she could expect. She thought since she was talking to attorneys that they could not repeat her story I bet. When she returned a few hours later with the bogus story it was a place to meet up with her mom...I think she came there hoping they would represent her and brought her mom along to pay a retainer if they said yes. Her story at the office is the most credible thing I have heard out of her mouth.

 

[Lori59]

Ok, but you have to choose - Kat or Seth? Because the only way to get a murder conviction against either of them is to get the other to testify against them and a grant of immunity.

KM for me. SM confessed in custody......they would never get that our of KM 10 days on the stand and she fought Barth tooth and nail with her word spin to avoid admitting things. I even think it could have been a sexist decision in part by the State to offer KM the deal. Thinking a jury would more easily convict a man of such an awful violent death JMO

 

[geevee]

I don't think I would consider Seth a "loser", he was a martial arts teacher (ie 'expert'), he graduated college with a degree in theater and was a certified EMT - nothing in there says 'loser' to me, regardless of his "unskilled" employment.

http://www.wcvb.com/news/local/bost...uspect-profile-Seth-Mazzaglia/17009872#!ZUano