NH NH - Elizabeth Marriott, 19, Durham, 9 Oct 2012 - # 8 *S. Mazzaglia guilty*

[minor4th]

I'm still not decided, it seems to me the first part was well planned, the aftermath, not so much. That dang tarp is what bothers me most. If they obtained it with the intention of murder, then you have clear pre-med. If it was conveniently laying in the pile of stuff in that room, well....

i'm just glad i'm not on the jury.

Heres what I think -- I think Kat arranged for Lizzi to come over as part of her punishment that Seth described a few weeks earlier (offer one of your friends to me and Ill kill her with orgasms and then turn my brutal attention to you)

IMO Kat was fulfilling the second part of her punishment, and she knew that Seth might rape and kill her friend as punishment to Kat. I dont think Kat PLANNED for that to happen, but I think she knew it was a possibility.

Of course, it would have simplified everything if Lizzi had gone along with Kat and Seths sexual overtures voluntarily, but since she didnt, Seth was going to have what he wanted without her consent and Kat knew this for certain as soon as Seth sent the text message about painting. She may not have known exactly what Seth was going to do or how he was going to do it, but she knew Seth was going to do SOMETHING (I guess so, if you have a plan. Nervous.)

Kat gave the go ahead and braced herself for what was about to come. She expected it, and it would have never crossed her mind to stop Seth or intervene or in any way help Lizzi - after all this was part of her punishment. Kat helped Seth kill Lizziand helped make sure she was dead.

I believe Kat did this willingly as part of her commitment to Seth because that is the bargain she signed up for with him.

 

[ricky_ticky]

oh i'm quite familiar with the real world, of law and otherwise.......thank you.... and it certainly sounds like u are eluding to more........please do tell......i'm intrigued..........



goodnight all, praying for lizzi :rose:

For me, having some direct experience w methods of defense attorneys thanks to my ex-h, what I see is a defense strategy that is entirely the creation of the defense attorney with the sole purpose of inspiring reasonable doubt rather than actually getting at the truth of the case.

IMO SM is not capable of participating in his defense bcs this is Barth's premise and conceit, not his. Simply put, "ricky, you are accused of taking the cookie from the cookie jar. Whether you did take the cookie or not is irrelevant. Let's talk about who else had access to the cookie jar and whether or not there's any proof positive that you took that cookie."

IMO Barth is very good at putting on the act of disputing the premise of the pros by suggesting multiple other possible scenarios (and even getting others to testify to them.) while that may make him a good defense lawyer it doesn't bring forth the truth. MOO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Littleone48]

Catherine Fish will testify~

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20140619/GJNEWS_01/140619197

 

[Ociboys]

Agree, something odd about the bags over Lizzi's head. At first I figured they just didn't want to see her face, but they could have picked something off the floor and covered her face. So, why did Kat or Seth put bags over Lizzi's head and tie them tight?

This has stayed with me. It doesn't seem logical, but I also do not understand enough about how LMs body would respond differently if suffocation, strangulation, asphyxiation, etc. & body reactions to comment but these are my thoughts.
1. Could she have still been alive and this was how to restrict any further breathing.
2. If the bags were placed after she stopped breathing, would her face swell and turn purple?
3. Would her face swell just by strangulation? or just by suffocating? The swelling, color difference and delineation may have a significant importance to alleging a cause of death without a body, but I'm not versed enough to determine a theory.

 

[Skigirl]

Heres what I think -- I think Kat arranged for Lizzi to come over as part of her punishment that Seth described a few weeks earlier (offer one of your friends to me and Ill kill her with orgasms and then turn my brutal attention to you)

IMO Kat was fulfilling the second part of her punishment, and she knew that Seth might rape and kill her friend as punishment to Kat. I dont think Kat PLANNED for that to happen, but I think she knew it was a possibility.

Of course, it would have simplified everything if Lizzi had gone along with Kat and Seths sexual overtures voluntarily, but since she didnt, Seth was going to have what he wanted without her consent and Kat knew this for certain as soon as Seth sent the text message about painting. She may not have known exactly what Seth was going to do or how he was going to do it, but she knew Seth was going to do SOMETHING (I guess so, if you have a plan. Nervous.)

Kat gave the go ahead and braced herself for what was about to come. She expected it, and it would have never crossed her mind to stop Seth or intervene or in any way help Lizzi - after all this was part of her punishment. Kat helped Seth kill Lizziand helped make sure she was dead.

I believe Kat did this willingly as part of her commitment to Seth because that is the bargain she signed up for with him.

I think this explanation fits everything we know, but it still doesn't ring true to me. I think KM was nervous because she knew that peace with SM depended on things going according to SM's mental script (which Kat knew was unrealistic and resembled a movie). I think she thought that their attempts to get LM to participate in a sexual encounter had a good chance of being horribly, horribly awkward because she knew that LM very likely would say "no thanks," or worse, say "no," SM would continue to press it, LM would end up offended and scared and leave upset, and tell everyone she and KM knew at Target.

I think the absolute worst thing KM thought would happen is that SM would be too forceful and that they would end up in trouble with an attempted rape charge, or I could even go as far as to believe that KM was worried there would be an actual rape. When LM arrived, KM got more worried about an actual rape and may have been thinking about how they were going to deal with the aftermath of that. But I do not think it occurred to KM that the outcome of their evening was going to be murder. In my opinion, she was smart enough to have planned things out more carefully, if so. She would have had a plan for disposing of the body that didn't involve two witnesses showing up. She would have probably found a way to send some texts earlier to make it look like LM never showed.

I think KM knew that the evening was likely to be bad, but I don't think she thought that it would result in LM's death.

 

[ricky_ticky]

This has stayed with me. It doesn't seem logical, but I also do not understand enough about how LMs body would respond differently if suffocation, strangulation, asphyxiation, etc. & body reactions to comment but these are my thoughts.

1. Could she have still been alive and this was how to restrict any further breathing.

2. If the bags were placed after she stopped breathing, would her face swell and turn purple?

3. Would her face swell just by strangulation? or just by suffocating? The swelling, color difference and delineation may have a significant importance to alleging a cause of death without a body, but I'm not versed enough to determine a theory.

I don't know all of the answers to your questions but I think there's a distinction to be made in relation to whether a person is alive, injured & capable of recovering vs. clinging to life, technically alive, but not likely to respond to medical assistance.

When KM checked LM's pulse, (according to her,) she could not locate a rhythm. I think it's possible that there might have been a faint pulse that KM did not detect and that LM would not have recovered even with medical assistance. Don't know if that means she was "alive" at that point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Skigirl]

This has stayed with me. It doesn't seem logical, but I also do not understand enough about how LMs body would respond differently if suffocation, strangulation, asphyxiation, etc. & body reactions to comment but these are my thoughts.
1. Could she have still been alive and this was how to restrict any further breathing.
2. If the bags were placed after she stopped breathing, would her face swell and turn purple?
3. Would her face swell just by strangulation? or just by suffocating? The swelling, color difference and delineation may have a significant importance to alleging a cause of death without a body, but I'm not versed enough to determine a theory.

I'm pretty sure the purple face and swelling were the result of the strangulation and that the bags had nothing to do with it. The clean boundary between the pale and purple skin would indicate that everything above the line was starved of oxygen and that the rope is what caused the clean delineation. I think if she had been manually strangled, there wouldn't have been a deep mark on her neck. Even tied tight, I doubt the bags could have cut off her oxygen completely, since grocery plastic bags are usually pretty flimsy and have holes, etc. I also think that even if they were tight, it would have been a lot easier to produce a deep mark on her neck by pulling hard on a rope than with bags tied tightly. Very little leverage in the latter, and lots of leverage in the former.

 

[angiefly2]

I wonder if the bags were placed on LM's head to keep any "potential evidence" ie: saliva etc. contained???

 

[Skigirl]

I wonder if the bags were placed on LM's head to keep any "potential evidence" ie: saliva etc. contained???

Or maybe because looking at her face was awful and they both wanted it covered?

 

[HauntsForHope]

:coffeews:
Good morning trial watchers. The morning sessions starts at 10 am today.

:findinglink:
The trial has finally picked up speed so don't blink or you might miss something...LOL

Archives are up, for anyone catching up. http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/seth-mazzaglia-video-archive/
Yesterday ended with Paul Hickok who I believe will be back on the stand this morning under cross. Pet Peeve: Why does he show up to court in jeans and an old t-shirt? Don't most men own at least one suit? jmo

 

[Skigirl]

I was telling a friend about a few choice bits from the inmates' testimony...the jail break, the drug business/ATM card, the map to mom's house with Chinese restaurant noted, the swapping of jailhouse nacho recipes and am reminded once again that you cannot make this stuff up.

 

[Ociboys]

I don't know all of the answers to your questions but I think there's a distinction to be made in relation to whether a person is alive, injured & capable of recovering vs. clinging to life, technically alive, but not likely to respond to medical assistance.

When KM checked LM's pulse, (according to her,) she could not locate a rhythm. I think it's possible that there might have been a faint pulse that KM did not detect and that LM would not have recovered even with medical assistance. Don't know if that means she was "alive" at that point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree. My reference to alive was still breathing and if differences could be found with the bags pre and post. I wasn't inferring she was conscious. OT but I recently went through a quality of life issue with my mom who suffered a massive stroke and was not conscious any longer. Mom was on life support and would not respond when they tried to make her breathe on her own. Once we decided to release her from suffering, and the tube was removed, she did begin to breathe and I was terrified because I did not expect that, but as it was explained to me by the specialists, this a mechanical response and her body was not supplying appropriate oxygen because she "was not breathing" and technically no longer with us. Also her blood pressure slowed considerably. It was all very difficult to comprehend but I would have to assume Lizzi was in a similar state medically in response to brain activity and body functions.

 

[zoey]

:coffeews:
Good morning trial watchers. The morning sessions starts at 10 am today.

:findinglink:
The trial has finally picked up speed so don't blink or you might miss something...LOL

Archives are up, for anyone catching up. http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/seth-mazzaglia-video-archive/
Yesterday ended with Paul Hickok who I believe will be back on the stand this morning. Pet Peeve: Why does he show up to court in jeans and an old t-shirt? Don't most men own at least one suit? jmo

Some don't. My dh doesn't ~~just doesn't need one

 

[angiefly2]

I know some of us are put off by the way Paul and Roberta respond to some of the questions and how they don't seem bothered by what happened. My thoughts are that, they have had years to deal with what they have witnessed. They also didn't know the victim. IMO Roberta and Paul, also don't come across as very emotional people. JMHO

 

[zoey]

So court doesn't start till 10:00 est?

 

[keeponsearching]

Good Morning! Starts at 10 today.

I have some time to go back and watch yesterday morning.

 

[HauntsForHope]

I was telling a friend about a few choice bits from the inmates' testimony...the jail break, the drug business/ATM card, the map to mom's house with Chinese restaurant noted, the swapping of jailhouse nacho recipes and am reminded once again that you cannot make this stuff up.

haha, I had the same experience, last night at dinner I described this case to my husband. He thought I had been binge watching a Netflix Drama...LOL

 

[HauntsForHope]

Some don't. My dh doesn't ~~just doesn't need one

I can understand not needing one, but he couldn't find anything more appropriate than jeans and a t-shirt to wear to court? It's been years, he had plenty of time to borrow something even... I just thinks it very disrespectful to the court coming in dressed like you're going to a "picnic in the local park". I actually heard a judge say that during my jury duty years ago. Where I lived, in Staten Island, New York City, jeans were not allowed in court. That was in the 70's. Now, people come in their pajamas....LOL It's a sad sad day in America, when we all look like slobs and that's ok.

 

[turaj]

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/seth-mazzaglia-video-archive/

I can play these videos without problem on my ipad

I really want to watch Paul...had to leave yesterday...I can get to this link no problem but only goes through Kat's mother...where is the rest of the day...anyone have a link. Thanks.

 

[HauntsForHope]

Good Morning! Starts at 10 today.

I have some time to go back and watch yesterday morning.

Good morning! Yes, I just rewatched the ph testimony from the end of the afternoon session just to be ready to pick up where he left off. I may also watch the convicts testimony, just for laughs. What a hoot this guy is. I love it when he says excuse me attorneys aren't you going to object? LOL Seems sm was quite the entertainer in the medical unit. Playing fortune teller and mystic to anyone that would watch....