NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #10

[Lolacat]

Renner has a book coming out shortly to explain his theories, so I assume he is holding back the evidence/theories as material for that.



While it's a valid point that it is taboo to lie about death, don't forget that a lot of people do just that. A death in the family requires no doctor's note, won't have people questioning why you seemed just fine yesterday, and hopefully sounds severe enough that people will not question it.

Not saying that's the reason Maura chose to use that excuse - just a possibility to remember.

I had a death in my family during the last year of my uni degree and they asked for a doctors note to enable me to extend my essay deadlines and to cover the time I had off. I had to go to the doctor and get him to sign a compassionate leave form provided to me by the uni. My degree was also a vocational one, just like Maura's so they were very strict about how much time you were allowed off because you could be missing important clinical sessions etc I am in UK though so it may well be different in US. I totally get your point though, but I do question why she did not just say "family emergency" or "family illness" etc.. Why be as dramatic as "death" KWIM.

 

[deca]

My spouse is a uni professor and many times a year he has students come in and say they are going to be out for a death in the family. Typically they are only out a week total, sometimes less. They don't require proof even though the standing joke among the profs is "the average student has 5 dead grandmas over the course of their college career". The profs do require the student to make up the exam, missed work, whatever. FWIW

 

[Lolacat]

My spouse is a uni professor and many times a year he has students come in and say they are going to be out for a death in the family. Typically they are only out a week total, sometimes less. They don't require proof even though the standing joke among the profs is "the average student has 5 dead grandmas over the course of their college career". The profs do require the student to make up the exam, missed work, whatever. FWIW

I'm curious- would they require proof of illness, if it was only a week?

 

[Captain_Khan]

I'm curious- would they require proof of illness, if it was only a week?

I guess the important thing is - would Maura know if they required proof of illness if it was only a week?

It's not really the sort of thing you can ask about in advance without raising suspicion. From her perspective, would it have looked safer to lie about a death than an illness?

 

[Curiosum]

I'm curious- would they require proof of illness, if it was only a week?

That would probably depend on the school policy. I never attended UMass so I couldn't comment on theirs specifically. I'm around Maura's age and with the exception of a friend who ended up with mono (and horrible complications) and ended up taking a medical leave of absence for the semester I never knew of anyone who got time off for illness.

 

[Curiosum]

My spouse is a uni professor and many times a year he has students come in and say they are going to be out for a death in the family. Typically they are only out a week total, sometimes less. They don't require proof even though the standing joke among the profs is "the average student has 5 dead grandmas over the course of their college career". The profs do require the student to make up the exam, missed work, whatever. FWIW

Clearly I should have gone to your husband's university. I only had one grandparent alive at the time I started college and sadly she did pass away quite unexpectedly during my junior year of college. I had a required discussion section for a required evolutionary biology course that I could not be excused from to attend her funeral. I was probably a bit too much of an obedient good student but I was also a daughter and I had loved my grandmother dearly. My poor father drove four hours after work to collect me from school on Wednesday evening. I attended my grandmother's funeral and played a part of her musical eulogy on Thursday and Friday morning I drove my dad's spare car back to campus in time for my afternoon required discussion session. We had a home track meet that weekend so my parents came up for the meet and to collect my dad's extra car.

 

[scoops]

Scoops, can we just hug it out. I hate all this bickering. You've got your opinion. I have mine. I believe the most likely scenario that explains all the evidence is the tandem driver. And the fact that they haven't found a body yet. But I get where you're coming from with the suicide. It's obviously what Fred was thinking at first. The question is what happened that was so bad she needed to kill herself. Anyway, I wish you would focus on digging up some new info. One major hole in my reporting is the mother. And Fred Jr.

James,
I have no beef with you.

And you have done a whole lot more actual work than I have in trying to get to the bottom of this mystery.

We definitely disagree on Maura's outcome, but bickering back-and-forth about theories isn't helping anything either.

I am mostly good for research purposes only at this point concerning this case.

But obviously, if you are still going out and conducting interviews, I am sure I (and others) could come up with some possible questions to be asked.

I really was fascinated with your interview with Lt. Scarinza.

Here is a guy that rode hard the company line when it came to dealing with the media while he was in charge of Maura's investigation (which is what he is suppose to do). He would barely say anything of substance.

And I really felt like he was opening up to you.

I think a second interview with him would be very valuable.

Maybe he could give his account for how things really went down on those first few days after Maura went missing. Plus, I would love to hear what he knows about Maura's dorm room and the state it was left in.

 

[JamesRenner]

Good idea. On it.

 

[margarita25]

If you feel a member's post is attacking, rude or being snarky then alert, don't respond to the post and let a Mod check out the offending post.

Everyone has a right to their opinion here, do not attack someone for their opinion. You can argue what the post says, you can not say its ridiculous, or not using common sense or anything like that. Just post what you disagree with.

Lol, Ima---didn't you just make the same post in another thread? (HE) :biggrin:

 

[scoops]

Good idea. On it.

James

If you ever get an opportunity to talk to Lt. Scarinza again, here are some things maybe worth trying to get to the bottom of:

1. Why things went so sour so fast between his department and the Murray Family. (We have heard fred's account, how about the perspective of the lead investigator). And what really was said -- to where suicide even became a topic.

2. What really went down that very night Maura went missing. How big was the initial search effort, how far did It span. Did the search go east and if not, why not. (I understand he wasn't there for the initial search, but I am sure he was briefed on everything that took place the next morning).

Was it standard procedure for the situation knowing a young female that disappeared was behind the wheel of a wrecked car.

3. Any dorm room details he could provide.
(He likely wasn't there for the dorm search, but would've been briefed on it).

If he was there, then did Maura literally have everything packed up or just most of her stuff and how was her stuff packed. (there is a rumor floating around that Maura actually had her stuff separated and packed in different piles meant for certain things to go to certain people). I haven't been able to verify this rumor.

4. A rag in the tailpipe explanation would be great (not sure if he could help)
It would be nice to find out once and for all, how the rag was discovered, how far the rag was in the tailpipe, what police thought about finding that etc...

Just some suggestions.

Keep up the good work.
Clint

 

[JamesRenner]

Thanks, Clint. Peace out.

 

[scoops]

ON MAURA'S MOTHER:

A common misconception is that Maura's mom stood on the sidelines while the rest of the family and friends searched for Maura, but that is just plain false.

Less than two weeks after Maura went missing, Maura's mother had planned a trip to New Hampshire to visit the accident site and interview the neighbors herself.

Maura's mother did have a broken ankle at the time, but had enlisted the services of two co-workers from the nursing home she worked at to drive her up to New Hampshire.

I personally have no idea, if she ever went as planned. But she was frustrated with the search that was being done and she wanted to step in and take charge herself.

 

[Lolacat]

Clearly I should have gone to your husband's university. I only had one grandparent alive at the time I started college and sadly she did pass away quite unexpectedly during my junior year of college. I had a required discussion section for a required evolutionary biology course that I could not be excused from to attend her funeral. I was probably a bit too much of an obedient good student but I was also a daughter and I had loved my grandmother dearly. My poor father drove four hours after work to collect me from school on Wednesday evening. I attended my grandmother's funeral and played a part of her musical eulogy on Thursday and Friday morning I drove my dad's spare car back to campus in time for my afternoon required discussion session. We had a home track meet that weekend so my parents came up for the meet and to collect my dad's extra car.

I'm so sorry you went through that, thats awful I can relate to how hard it is struggling with grief when you have deadlines to meet, its incredibly stressful.

I guess my reasoning is that taking some time off and using a death as an excuse is not really a huge red flag on its own. I can imagine if a student was desperate enough for extra time to complete an essay etc that they might pull that one out of the bag. What I find odd about Maura's case is that it was right at the beginning of term. They had just returned from a break. She then packed up her dorm (allegedly!), lied to her tutors about this "death" and all for what?- to go and get wasted for a week in the White mountains?! Knowing, that when she returned not only would she have to catch up on the work she'd missed out on but that she'd also have to deal with the consequences of the lie. Not to mention explaining to her family where she'd been (if they ever found out) and why she'd skipped off college. From what we know about them, I imagine they would have had A LOT to say to her about skipping out of college for a week. It just doesnt make sense to me. Something is very wrong here.

 

[scoops]

This is extremely interesting. Ive always thought that her lying about a death in the family was a huge red flag and perhaps indicative of her not planning to return. Why on earth would you make up such a bold faced lie when you know you'll have to return to face the consequences? People dont take kindly to others deceiving them about something as sensitive as death- its considered taboo and reflects very badly on the person's character. Thats why I wondered why she didnt just use the old faithful, "I'm sick" excuse- SO much easier.

I think myself and James each believe Maura wasn't planning on ever returning. We just come to different conclusions after Maura left campus that Monday.

I have always believed that Maura used the "Death in the family" excuse to buy more than just one day for herself before people would be looking for her.

that email went to the nursing department faculty and also to both of Maura's jobs. Just not showing up for school or work on Monday, I truly believe would've been enough for someone to alert Maura's family. A good friend worked with Maura at the art gallery. If Maura was a no-show, that friend (IMO) would likely be trying to get a hold of Maura right away, to include reaching out to family.

 

[Lolacat]

The idea that she didnt plan to return is becoming more and more convincing to me.

 

[deca]

I'm curious- would they require proof of illness, if it was only a week?

It really depends on the professor. In general, most professors I have had, my husband has had, and his colleagues don't require proof if it looks like you are an earnest student. Of course, you have to make up all the work in a timely fashion and/or do a harder exam. There are some professors that are hard a$$e$$ that require a doctor's note if you miss a class. Usually that is all up to each individual professor. Some profs state on the syllabi that a note is needed or you can't miss class but if an individual student speaks with them they will bend the rules based on that student and that situation. They like stating things to scare the students into better behavior.

 

[deca]

The idea that she didnt plan to return is becoming more and more convincing to me.

Although that is possible, why even say that? Why not just say that she was dropping out of the program? Then no one would be looking for her except family- when family eventually discovered she was missing. People drop out of college all the time, and out of various programs. I think IIRC there is something like a 50% college drop out rate.

 

[trenchmouth]

I would think dropping out excuse might raise concern from the school and they might have called her parents right away.

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[Lolacat]

Although that is possible, why even say that? Why not just say that she was dropping out of the program? Then no one would be looking for her except family- when family eventually discovered she was missing. People drop out of college all the time, and out of various programs. I think IIRC there is something like a 50% college drop out rate.

I can think of several reasons. She clearly wanted to get away quickly and she didnt want to talk to anyone or have anyone know where she was going. If she had sent them an email saying she was leaving for good they presumably would have tried to contact her (which includes trying her family/next of kin phone number if they couldn't get hold of her on her cell or at the dorm). I would imagine there is also a procedure they have to follow- she might have had to go in and fill out a form or return college books etc.. all causing further delays when all she wanted to do was get away. I also wonder how dropping out might have affected her financially - if she had any student loans or grants etc..

 

[deca]

I would think dropping out excuse might raise concern from the school and they might have called her parents right away.

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Schools aren't allowed by law to do that.