NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #11

[Lolacat]

Docwho3- I found your post intriguing. Would you feel comfortable sharing specifically why you come down on the side of runaway? I would love to hear it.

 

[Fireweed]

No, I'm pointing out that it's utterly ridiculous to blame the Rausches for not doing something that was the police's job.

As soon as Maura's cell phone records came in the mail, the Rausches forwarded them to the police. This presumably involved opening them, and it also involves the understanding that the police would make thorough use of them in the investigation.

Several months later, they learned that this was not the case. On learning that the police hadn't called any of the numbers Maura had dialed, they did it themselves out of desperation.

The point that I am making remains that you cannot and should not blame the Rausches for not calling the Salamones until several months later, because the police had this information since the beginning, and since it's their investigation, it's their responsibility to do something with it.

The Rausche's logic was, to put it simply so you can understand it, that the police would do their job and follow up all possible leads.

But why would they even need to call? It makes no sense because we (the public) have repeatedly been scolded about looking into Maura's past, that nothing in her past matters; all that matters is what happened that night. In fact, we have been told over and over again that it does not matter why Maura went up there. If that is true, then how on earth would it be the police's job to investigate who Maura called that day? Why would the Rausches even call that number? According to them and the Murrays, what happened before that accident is irrelevant. So really calling that number (either by the police of the Rausches) must be the utterly ridiculous part!

 

[docwho3]

Docwho3- I found your post intriguing. Would you feel comfortable sharing specifically why you come down on the side of runaway? I would love to hear it.

Thank you for the nice response.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #11

I would like to suggest some interesting reading that really won't take as long as it sounds like. (I skimmed through it tonight before posting and it only took me a few minutes.)

I have provided a link to post # 1 of this thread which has links to the earlier threads of this forum. My own involvement did not start until thread 2 , if I remember right, and I posted a theory in thread 2 at about post # 121 or so. But I strongly suggest that you read thread # 1 first and then read all of thread 2 but disregarding any friction between posters in 1 & 2 as the points they make (even if made angrily in some cases) are important to know.

I can tell you that in light of later cases listed on Websleuths and elsewhere
I have refined my case workup but the reasons and evidence links are, for the most part, in those threads. Some of the MSM (Main Stream Media) links may no longer work as files on the web get moved or deleted over time by news agencies. In my workup of the case there are black underlined links.

I hope the info helps you.

 

[Lolacat]

Docwho3- Thank you for the link. I read most of thread 1 and the whole of thread 2. After that I had to take a break as my head was swimming lol.

Some thoughts:
I find it quite frustrating that this narrative of Maura having the perfect life full of joy and hopeful direction seems to persist for some people. I'm perplexed as to how they come to this conclusion based on Maura's actual behaviour- eg, bulimia, stealing, drinking and driving, car accidents, disappearing without telling anyone etc.. of course, none of these make Maura a *bad person* (and ALL of us make mistakes and show poor judgement at times), but in my mind they are hugely indicative of someone who feels completely out of control of their own life.

I didnt realise that Maura also had Tylenol and Aspirin aswell as alcohol with her in the car.

I was gobsmacked to read that article by Jan Glidewell who describes how her 16 year old stepson went missing and then was found 6 years later in the ARMY! He was a registered missing person and he joined the army?! This just shows that its actually not as difficult to disappear and start a new life as people might think.

I found your theory very interesting. I also found the chapter that Maura had marked in "not without peril" rather compelling, it made me feel quite sad. I really want to read that book now.

 

[docwho3]

Docwho3- Thank you for the link. . .

You are welcome.

. . .I was gobsmacked to read that article by Jan Glidewell who describes how her 16 year old stepson went missing and then was found 6 years later in the ARMY! He was a registered missing person and he joined the army?! This just shows that its actually not as difficult to disappear and start a new life as people might think. . .

I have since learned of other cases that prove it is much easier to start a new life than people realize. One wife left her husband and kids and started a new life in another state and was gone for 16 years. She used another SS# and only got found when she thought enough time had gone by that no one was looking for her anymore and she began using her old SS# again. When she left ,the scene of her abandoned car made it seem a possible crime had been committed.

And a young teen left home and went to Florida and worked for cash at a restaurant and even with her car with original plates parked outside her new home managed to stay under the radar for a good while and there has been many others that I have learned about. So yes, it is evidently not nearly so hard to start a new life as I once thought it might be.

*************
Note: I realize foul play can not be entirely ruled out and so want to take a moment to say that if Maura is alive and being held captive somewhere (as those 3 young women that were rescued not so long ago) she should know (if she reads this) that people are still looking for her and I hope she finds a way to escape. (I think this possibility had not been given nearly enough consideration at the time as long term captivity was just not stuff we had any recent cases about.)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/12/3-women-rescued-cleveland-happy-home_n_3262788.html

If she is dead I hope her remains are found and returned home.

 

[Jane Birch]

That makes me feel better. I searched NAMUS.gov via her name, NH, female together and then just looked through all NH MPs

****Edited as I'm dense and realize she's under MA**** CARRY ON!!! hahaha

Aha! Yeah, I just searched by name. And you're not dense, I'm not sure which state I'd have chosen first either.

Wait, maybe that makes us both dense....

 

[Jane Birch]

But why would they even need to call? It makes no sense because we (the public) have repeatedly been scolded about looking into Maura's past, that nothing in her past matters; all that matters is what happened that night. In fact, we have been told over and over again that it does not matter why Maura went up there. If that is true, then how on earth would it be the police's job to investigate who Maura called that day? Why would the Rausches even call that number? According to them and the Murrays, what happened before that accident is irrelevant. So really calling that number (either by the police of the Rausches) must be the utterly ridiculous part!

Well, anyone who wasn't convinced this wasn't an attempt to blame the Rausches and the Murrays pretty much has their answer now.

Can you imagine if the police investigating every crime only did the things the family told them to do? It's their djob ot do a COMPLETE investigation, which means following ALL leads, no matter how dumb or dead end.

 

[Fireweed]

Well, anyone who wasn't convinced this wasn't an attempt to blame the Rausches and the Murrays pretty much has their answer now.

Can you imagine if the police investigating every crime only did the things the family told them to do? It's their djob ot do a COMPLETE investigation, which means following ALL leads, no matter how dumb or dead end.

I am not blaming the Rausches or the Murrays; I am pointing out their hypocrisy. The whole cell phone bill farce is a good example of why there was a breakdown between them and LE in this case. On the one hand, they want the cops focused on a "local dirtbag" who just happened upon Maura and grabbed her, but then they are furious that LE did not investigate numbers she called earlier that day? No wonder LE became frustrated with Maura's family. They want it both ways.

 

[Fireweed]

You are welcome.


I have since learned of other cases that prove it is much easier to start a new life than people realize. One wife left her husband and kids and started a new life in another state and was gone for 16 years. She used another SS# and only got found when she thought enough time had gone by that no one was looking for her anymore and she began using her old SS# again. When she left ,the scene of her abandoned car made it seem a possible crime had been committed.

And a young teen left home and went to Florida and worked for cash at a restaurant and even with her car with original plates parked outside her new home managed to stay under the radar for a good while and there has been many others that I have learned about. So yes, it is evidently not nearly so hard to start a new life as I once thought it might be.

*************
Note: I realize foul play can not be entirely ruled out and so want to take a moment to say that if Maura is alive and being held captive somewhere (as those 3 young women that were rescued not so long ago) she should know (if she reads this) that people are still looking for her and I hope she finds a way to escape. (I think this possibility had not been given nearly enough consideration at the time as long term captivity was just not stuff we had any recent cases about.)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/12/3-women-rescued-cleveland-happy-home_n_3262788.html

If she is dead I hope her remains are found and returned home.

I know many people on this board talk about how Maura did not have enough time to plan her disappearance, but I would argue that she did not have to plan it at all. All she would have to do is show up somewhere far enough away where no one would know her, get a job, and find ways to pay cash for most things and keep her head down.

I don't know what happened to Maura, but the fact that her dorm room was left in a state for someone else to find it (i.e. email from Billy on top of packed up things), leads me to the conclusion that she was either planning on taking off for good, or for a long enough time that someone else would have to go to her room and retrieve her stuff.

 

[docwho3]

I know many people on this board talk about how Maura did not have enough time to plan her disappearance, but I would argue that she did not have to plan it at all. . .

You have a point. I have learned that people do not really need time to plan to just disappear but to stage some parts of the thing successfully takes at least a day or so of thought and we know Maura did get directions and/or did a websearch (can't remember which) in conjunction with her leaving and this indicates at least a little planning on her part (as opposed to her just blindly jumping into her car and driving off into the unknown.)

I think that in Maura's case, the desire to run had been building for awhile but I can't say for sure that the actual planning took a long time as I once believed.

I have also learned over time:
Often when adult people run they stage the scene in some way. Sometimes they leave behind cars, some with doors wide open, some with the doors locked, some with a small drop of blood on the vehicle, just so it is mysterious or even slightly leaning towards indicating foul play.

One lady (mother of 3) left her van in a parking lot with her purse and ID behind after telling her family she was going to a doctor's appointment.
http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Lode-woman-found-years-later

And a mailman told his wife he thought someone was following him a time or two and then a day or so later left his mail vehicle abandoned with just a tiny drop of blood on it. (He took a canoe and floated down river to make his escape. . .which was at least some planning.)
http://archive.indystar.com/article...0449/Blood-found-missing-mail-carrier-s-truck

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/missing-mailman-found-arrested

http://www.wthr.com/story/6792239/mailman-found-but-questions-remain

One woman (school teacher or preacher's wife- I think) went with her friend to the theater and then walked out to go to the restroom and then disappeared.

I have also learned that once gone they can stay gone a long time (not saying they all stay gone so long but more than one might think.)
One 27 year old man "wanted to be a cowboy" so he walked away from his life and was found abut 21 years later.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695203132/Texan-is-Orem-man-who-vanished-in-1986.html

Once gone they can stay gone a long time in some cases. . . such as gone for 21 years.
http://www.missingpeople.net/missing_woman_found_alive.htm

And sometimes even using their own SS# they slide past the system
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-student-found-after-7-years/

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

That's not how logic works, dude. Sorry.

You can't have it both ways. Dude.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

Hey why did Maura use Fred's phone to call Billy that night? I mean if she and Billy were on the same plan, would it not have been free to call Billy? She used her phone to get a tow truck right? Or was it the cop?

I wonder if Maura was just sloppy about keeping her phone charged or keeping it with her.

She forgot it back at her dorm. I don't know if she was typically forgetful or not...I thought perhaps her drinking combined with her agitation caused her to forget it.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

If Maura was only intending to be gone for a week, and she had already sent an email with an "excuse," then why would she leave her room in a state for someone else to find it? Maura left an email from Billy on top her packed boxes. This can only mean that Maura had the expectation at the time she left the note that someone else would wind up finding it. Would someone enter her dorm after a day? A week? It seems that at the very least she did not want UMass worrying about her for the next week (email to profs). Even Fred Murray's cell phone records show that he made no attempt to contact her on either Monday or Tuesday (until he heard about the accident). Conclusion: Maura's intent when she left Amherst that Monday was to be gone long enough for someone else to enter her dorm room. She was not getting away for a few days. No one would enter her dorm room in that period of time. In fact it seems that she did not WANT anyone entering her room for at least a week. She was getting away for a very long time - long enough that she knew her room would be searched and the email from Billy would be found.



My theory: Maura was going to call her father that Monday night from a hotel in Bartlett. She was not going to tell him she was in Bartlett. She came prepared to go over the accident forms. This way her father would be none the wiser that she was on the path to disappearing for good. It would take a few more days after that for Fred and the rest of the family to become worried enough to really start searching for her. She was also not going to call Billy, and if he attempted to call her and she did not answer, it would not be surprising since the last communication from her had stated that she did not feel like talking to anyone. In fact, this may have been something that the "private" and "introverted" Maura did sometimes.

The car wreck put a dent in these plans. Maura knew that the cops were coming and that they would find out that the car was registered to Fred. Would they contact him right away? For all she knows, they will. She cannot call her father now. She has to change her original plan. She cannot return to her family like this: she was supposed to be in school and she was not. She had been driving drunk (again) and had wrecked a car (again). She had wrecked a car that she was not really supposed to be driving. She calls no one because calling someone was not an option at this point. They will know that she packed up her room and clearly had no intention of returning to school. Maura evens turns off her cell phone. She knows that people might try to call her. They might be able to find out where she is by tracking her phone, so it gets turned off. She never uses her debit card again because there is no need to - that account is empty. In fact it was emptied on purpose - Maura did not want to be tracked.

I mostly agree with you. I think it could be argued that she packed up her things to "protect" them and to keep people from going through them if her death ruse was discovered, but more likely that she wasn't coming back.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

Fireweed- I think I am with you too. My only hesitation is that I am not sure if Maura intended to escape to run away to start a new life OR to kill herself. Both are equally plausible to me.

I just CANNOT see Maura telling her father she wants to drop out of college and break up with Billy. I just cant. For her to start a whole new life with her family's knowledge and presence in her life would be immensely difficult, I think. Her entire family would have been against it. I think they would have made life unbearable for her if she had made that choice. I feel so sad for Maura, she literally had noone to confide in, noone to support her, noone to even LISTEN to her. All of her coping mechanisms were dysfunctional ones- bulimia, stealing, alcohol.

*If* she did run away to start a new life it seems like an extremely impulsive decision- there doesnt seem to have been much planning involved on her part (that we know about).

I think she was way too passive to be able to tell her father any of that, and after "letting him down", she felt pushed to run. I think if suicide was her goal, she would have walked into the woods with her alcohol when she had her last accident, and she would have taken her sentimental objects with her instead of leaving them in the car.

I agree it was an impulsive decision, and I think the match was FM. I'm not sure she had a long term plan...I think she was going to work it out over the week.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

Helloooo....um this is the point I have been trying to make on this board for many months now, and the point that others have been trying to make for years: that what Maura did in the day (and days) leading up to her disappearance may have had an effect on what happened to her after she disappeared. It is the Murrays and Rausches who insist it does not, when of course it very well could.

My logic is fine; it the logic of Maura's family that is flawed.

My point was that clearly the Murrays and the Rausches could not possibly be at all upset by the police not investigating a phone call made by Maura before she disappeared. They have repeatedly insisted that what happened in Maura's life is "irrelevant." Would that not include a phone call? I mean if some local dirtbag grabbed her, then why would that call matter? I am simple using their own flawed logic against them. Of course that phone call matters - it goes to Maura's state of mind and her intended destination.

Agree completely, Fireweed. I get that they want to protect Maura and show her in the best light. I think it is possible "some local " grabbed her, too. No one can know the circumstances of it, though. What if something Maura told him has a bearing on where he took her? What if there wasn't a ? What if refusing to contribute information and flat out encouraging people to lie about events is the reason poor Maura can't be found? At this point, whose pride is being protected, here? Who is the priority? It should always be Maura. Everything, Anything, and the kitchen table should be acceptable if it helps bring her home, and it is baffling that the family feels differently.

 

[docwho3]

. . .It should always be Maura. Everything, Anything, and the kitchen table should be acceptable if it helps bring her home . . .

I like the way you said that.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

So, I remember there was some discussion about this interview a while back. Several people talked about Fred's suspicious behavior in this particular interview and his supposed "dog and pony show". I'm not saying I think it is or is not, but I'm just curious what some of you are seeing in this interview that makes you feel that way?

I think people feel that way because he is slightly abrasive, which makes it hard to feel empathy for him. I think he realizes that and tries to show his emotions more, and it comes across as phony. I can't fault him for his personality. Not everyone reacts to situations the same way, and he could have been pressured by producers to come off as more " likable ".

My problem with him is that he frequently uses verbal and physical cues to indicate a person is being untruthful. I'm sure he has his reasons for what he says and does, but misleading LE can't do anything but hurt.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

Yeah, and how are they going to do that, exactly, without speaking to the people on the other end?

IT is routine police procedure to interview people who were the last to interact wit ha missing person. That's why people have made so much of Butch Atwood. Again with the not knowing how logic works.

Logically Maura was an adult who went missing seemingly by her own choice. There was no evidence of foul play. There was evidence she packed up her room and planned to be gone, drained her bank account. There was no logical reason for LE to call those numbers.

The family, wanting to find Maura regardless of her wishes, could have called. But you say they didn't want to impede LE. Yet these same people delete a voicemail they say is Maura, even when LE says that it is not. "We're the only ones who KNOW this is her, but let's delete the message." Hi, impeding.

This family may be lovely folks, but logic isn't anything they are friends with.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

I know many people on this board talk about how Maura did not have enough time to plan her disappearance, but I would argue that she did not have to plan it at all. All she would have to do is show up somewhere far enough away where no one would know her, get a job, and find ways to pay cash for most things and keep her head down.

I don't know what happened to Maura, but the fact that her dorm room was left in a state for someone else to find it (i.e. email from Billy on top of packed up things), leads me to the conclusion that she was either planning on taking off for good, or for a long enough time that someone else would have to go to her room and retrieve her stuff.

I don't know that you would need any planning at all. It makes it easier, like clothing, money, etc. People say she didn't plan or didn't have enough with her, but I could walk out of my house right now and be out of the state in a day, and go to a domestic violence shelter with a story and stay there with no money and no ID. I could work hard and eventually get a job. Etc. Starting a new life doesn't have to be a big production. You can have a hundred bucks, a few changes of clothes, a few cherished belongings and a favorite book and completely disappear successfully.

 

[Jane Birch]

She forgot it back at her dorm. I don't know if she was typically forgetful or not...I thought perhaps her drinking combined with her agitation caused her to forget it.

She'd left it at the party and I believe got it back from Sara Alfieri the nexy day. I don't know whether she was typically forgetful or not either, but I do know that the cell phone was new (a Christmas gift maybe? but don't quote me on that) so she wasn't accustomed to having to think about "do I have my phone on me?" and it hadnt' yet become like her fifth limb the way our cell phones are these days.