NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 2

[Hammerized]

This leads me to think that either Peabody was wrong about conditions that night or the construction man lied about driving by and not stopping or that the construction man never saw her at all. The fact that he inserted himself into the case as a witness also casts doubt on his being involved but it is not totally unheard of for a killer to insert himself into a case but it is more often that people are just attention seekers (as opposed to being killers.)

(emphasis added)

Docwho, Peabody, and others... Thank you for this most recent discussion material.

In my post from 10/11, http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=841653&postcount=39 ,
I noted that a mysterious killing (execution, by all accounts) of a seemingly simple, laid-back man in the construction trade (mason) occurred in the area where Maura was last seen.

This murder of Tom Conrad is an ongoing investigation, and not much is being said about it. Of course, that's pretty weird. I guess because this crime, as well as Maura's disappearance, occurred in my part of the country, my ears are pricked for any crime news- however offbeat.

Regarding the book Not Without Peril, I have to say that I own a copy, though I cannot locate it. I do know that my hardcover copy- also autographed by Nick Howe- contains many topo maps of the trails, and photographs from years past. Not only is this book somewhat of a bible to the hikers who love the Presidential range, but it is also a distillation of the most sage AMC advice. It is not a surprise that a hiker who loves the range like Maura apparently did would own this book!

Concerning the bookmark Maura placed (card + photo) in the McDonald/Tavis Barr chapter of the book: I wonder if Maura hadn't planned on volunteering for a spell at the very Hut mentioned in that chapter. Much of the help in the range is volunteer. From her father's accounts, Maura was pretty familiar with some of the trails and her love and respect of them would certainly count her in as a possble volunteer guide.

Then again, all may be as it seems: I have taken this book with me on trips, too. It contains short stories concerning the danger to hikers in the Presidential range that span more than a century. I suppose that people not familiar with the NH mountain hiking experience would question Maura's interest in this book... I do not. I really do not see any hidden meaning in her attraction to this book. (God help me if I were to disappear and people dissected the reading material I left at MY last known location. LOL!)

Sometimes, a rose is just a rose. While it is always good, in my opinion, to explore even the most outside chances based upon clues, I do think some make too much of Maura's attention to this book. But again, I guess that's because of my own interest in this book.

And many could say the same about the implication of my link to a "non-related" murder in the area.

Above all, you guys have once again provided much food for thought. It is always a pleasure to read well-thought-out theories backed with sound reasoning. However off-the-wall they may seem on their face.

 

[docwho3]

. . .Concerning the bookmark Maura placed (card + photo) in the McDonald/Tavis Barr chapter of the book: I wonder if Maura hadn't planned on volunteering for a spell at the very Hut mentioned in that chapter. Much of the help in the range is volunteer. From her father's accounts, Maura was pretty familiar with some of the trails and her love and respect of them would certainly count her in as a possble volunteer guide. . .

If that one chapter about "Life or Death" was the only part of the case to be considered I might agree but when taken with the totality of the evidence, and that is how it should be considered, it is hard to ignore its possible significance.

. . .(God help me if I were to disappear and people dissected the reading material I left at MY last known location. LOL!). . .

If you ever mark and leave behind a chapter in a book about llife or death (that was a special gift from your father)by using an old pic of your brother and a halmark card then take most of the money out of your bank account, pack up the things in your room and then disappear then yes I would say people will certainly take that into account as some of us have in the Maura Murray case. In the total of that info it is not all that far fetched a thing to do either.

. . .And many could say the same about the implication of my link to a "non-related" murder in the area. . . .

If you can provide a link to the case such as the the victem working with the construction man witness in the Maura murray case it would certainly be worth pursuing and I encourage you to follow up on it.

 

[docwho3]

Speaking of constructionworker who may be serial rapist/killers:

O'Leary, who immediately dispatched three Waterbury detectives to Saratoga Springs, said Regan had been in New York for two weeks working at a relative's construction project. O'Leary said Regan had probably stalked the girl because of the way he had positioned his van for the attack. The sliding door was positioned right next to the driver's door. When the student, a cross country star on one of the premiere teams in the country, went to open her door after practice, Regan is accused of opening the sliding door of his van, grabbing her by the waist, covering her mouth, and attempting to drag her into the van.
http://www.waterburyobserver.com/worxcms_published/news_54.shtml

http://www.waterburyobserver.com/worxcms_published/news_54.shtml

Makes me wonder where he was in feb/2004. I believe they are in process of looking deeply into his back history.

 

[murraydwyer]

Kelly...sorry to be so long in responding to your question...I see the discussion has gone on in my absence...

As to whether police were checking Maura's social security information...the last time I heard it discussed was in Februrary and they were.

 

[Kelly]

I figured they were, but I wanted to check. Thanks!

Kelly Jolkowski, Mother of Missing Jason Jolkowski
President and Founder,
Project Jason
www.projectjason.org
Read our blog about missing persons:
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/

 

[hydemi]

Dear P,
you had said I think that you would be away a few days but I did send you a private message on this site yesterday, 12/2. thanks again.

 

[LillyRush]

Question - If she was meeting up with someone and this was the point where they were to find each other - how would she let them know that she had gotten there? Remember cell phones didn't work in this area. So unless she had her arrival time down to a tee, I'm unsure of how she would have been able to successfully carry out any type of meeting arrangement.

I'm not saying that it couldn't be possible at all, but just seems like there would be some obstacles involved...with the lack of cell phone capability and being unsure of exact arrival time due to the road conditions.

I'd like to know a little more about the condo that she was trying to reserve via phone before leaving. Was it for just for her? Did she mention whether more than one person would be staying there?

 

[docwho3]

Question - If she was meeting up with someone and this was the point where they were to find each other - how would she let them know that she had gotten there? Remember cell phones didn't work in this area. So unless she had her arrival time down to a tee, I'm unsure of how she would have been able to successful carry out any type of meeting arrangement.

I'm not saying that he couldn't be possible at all, but just seems like there would be some obstacles involved...with the lack of cell phone capability phone and being unsure of exact arrival time due to the road conditions.

I'd like to know a little more about the condo that she was trying to reserve before leaving via phone. Was it for just for her? Did she mention whether more than one person would be staying there?

Actually, if you are asking me, what I said was that I believe the plan was for them to meet at a prearranged staging place, such as a rented hotel room but that I also believe the helper was to follow Maura's same prearranged route to get there. If helper saw the car broken down along the road then helper would know to stop and help. However that plan to stop was only if the car broke down. I don't think an accident was planned for and thats why I think Maura had to get out of the car and walk/jog back the way she had come from to meet her helper before helper saw the car. It would have been too risky for helper to stop where the car actually sat wrecked because that would have given one of the 2 witnesses, or the cops which she knew must surely be on their way, the chance to see and ID helper's vehicle. Maura had to meet helper before helper got to the accident spot and so she had flag helper down before helper reached that spot.

There was no need to have travel time down to a "T" if both knew about when Maura was to leave and if they both knew the route she would take to get there. All helper had to do was to leave sometime after Maura, probably within 20 minutes would have been enough lead time ,and then take the same route Maura had said she would take and watch for a broken down car in case that car did have trouble on the way. (I don't know how much lead time was allowed but it seems that the time was close enough that by jogging/walking down the road Maura was able to meet helper in time to leave unseen) If no broken down Saturn with Maura was seen on the side of the road then helper would have continued on to the prearranged staging place. By then, if all had went well (meaning without an accident), Maura would have had most of the scene staged in the rented room and helper would have picked Maura up & taken her to the next destination in the plan, probably to a second car and then maybe both planned to go back to the dorm room to pick up stuff that was left packed. Since the car wreck probably changed all those later parts of the plan I don't really know what happened after she was picked up. Did helper take her straight to her back up car and then remain silent since helper had not really broken any law in helping an adult disappear?

Or, did things turn sinister?: Did helper get angry if Maura was supposed to have the jewelry with her as a pay off for services rendered and harm Maura when it was learned the jewelry was left behind? Or did helper double cross her for lust?

Who knows but my thought has been and remains, that although all angles of the case should indeed be looked at until they can reasonably be ruled out, . . . .without a body or other evidence of foul play the odds favor her being alive somewhere, snuggling warmly to sleep in her new identity each night.

In absence of other evidence I play the odds.

(Note:If I understood reports correctly she was not actually able to contact the condo owners for rental due to some answering system glitch. I do not know which place she finally had obtained to use to stage her good-bye scene. Finding the helper would seem a nice place to start in finding Maura.)

 

[Peabody]

Only returned home today.

Glad to see that discussion is still lively.

I must pack my bags and leave again (actually unpack the dirty clothes, wash and throw them back in the suitcase)......more personal things to take care of when I should be home preparing for the holidays !

Hoping to be back online and able to answer your questions/posts by the first of next week.


Bring Maura Home!
<modsnip - no longer a working website>

 

[Peabody]

Dear P,
you had said I think that you would be away a few days but I did send you a private message on this site yesterday, 12/2. thanks again.

Hydemi,

Received your PM - will be in touch next week.

Thanks for your insight.


Bring Maura Home!
<modsnip - no longer a working website>

 

[LillyRush]

Actually, if you are asking me, what I said was that I believe the plan was for them to meet at a prearranged staging place, such as a rented hotel room but that I also believe the helper was to follow Maura's same prearranged route to get there. If helper saw the car broken down along the road then helper would know to stop and help. However that plan to stop was only if the car broke down. I don't think an accident was planned for and thats why I think Maura had to get out of the car and walk/jog back the way she had come from to meet her helper before helper saw the car. It would have been too risky for helper to stop where the car actually sat wrecked because that would have given one of the 2 witnesses, or the cops which she knew must surely be on their way, the chance to see and ID helper's vehicle. Maura had to meet helper before helper got to the accident spot and so she had flag helper down before helper reached that spot.

There was no need to have travel time down to a "T" if both knew about when Maura was to leave and if they both knew the route she would take to get there. All helper had to do was to leave sometime after Maura, probably within 20 minutes would have been enough lead time ,and then take the same route Maura had said she would take and watch for a broken down car in case that car did have trouble on the way. (I don't know how much lead time was allowed but it seems that the time was close enough that by jogging/walking down the road Maura was able to meet helper in time to leave unseen) If no broken down Saturn with Maura was seen on the side of the road then helper would have continued on to the prearranged staging place. By then, if all had went well (meaning without an accident), Maura would have had most of the scene staged in the rented room and helper would have picked Maura up & taken her to the next destination in the plan, probably to a second car and then maybe both planned to go back to the dorm room to pick up stuff that was left packed. Since the car wreck probably changed all those later parts of the plan I don't really know what happened after she was picked up. Did helper take her straight to her back up car and then remain silent since helper had not really broken any law in helping an adult disappear?

Or, did things turn sinister?: Did helper get angry if Maura was supposed to have the jewelry with her as a pay off for services rendered and harm Maura when it was learned the jewelry was left behind? Or did helper double cross her for lust?

Who knows but my thought has been and remains, that although all angles of the case should indeed be looked at until they can reasonably be ruled out, . . . .without a body or other evidence of foul play the odds favor her being alive somewhere, snuggling warmly to sleep in her new identity each night.

In absence of other evidence I play the odds.

(Note:If I understood reports correctly she was not actually able to contact the condo owners for rental due to some answering system glitch. I do not know which place she finally had obtained to use to stage her good-bye scene. Finding the helper would seem a nice place to start in finding Maura.)

Thanks for elaborating on your idea. I was really just writing the whole scene out and just typing 'outloud' some of the things that I concluded about it. I actually still haven't read all the previous posts yet, been catching on some more recent cases during most of my online news update time.

 

[docwho3]

You are most welcome. I am glad you are taking the time to look at things so carefully. And thinking or "typing" out loud is sometimes the best way to get your thoughts together.

Thanks for elaborating on your idea. I was really just writing the whole scene out and just typing 'outloud' some of the things that I concluded about it. I actually still haven't read all the previous posts yet, been catching on some more recent cases during most of my online news update time.

 

[hydemi]

The updated CaseInfo timeline on the <no longer working site> website has Maura contacting Bartlett NH (Mrs. Salamone) at 12.55pm on 2/9/04, calling another student who was giving her rides to clinicals at 1.13pm (according to Peabody), and then spending five minutes listening to the recorded lodging options on the 800 number GOSTOWE in Vermont.

I think she decided that Stowe was too expensive, and still about three and one half hours drive, while Bartlett (Attitash) was cheaper & familiar to her & about four plus hours drive from Amherst, maybe less on rte 302 but she went off on rte 112 which looks more direct on maps.

So your theory requires that she somehow notified the helper of the route and the destination on Monday afternoon, sometime in the two hours or so before she departed Amherst. This could have happened but we have no phone or email or other indication of whom she saw that afternoon.

 

[docwho3]

The updated CaseInfo timeline on the <modsnip - no longer a working website> website has Maura contacting Bartlett NH (Mrs. Salamone) at 12.55pm on 2/9/04, calling another student who was giving her rides to clinicals at 1.13pm (according to Peabody), and then spending five minutes listening to the recorded lodging options on the 800 number GOSTOWE in Vermont.

I think she decided that Stowe was too expensive, and still about three and one half hours drive, while Bartlett (Attitash) was cheaper & familiar to her & about four plus hours drive from Amherst, maybe less on rte 302 but she went off on rte 112 which looks more direct on maps.

So your theory requires that she somehow notified the helper of the route and the destination on Monday afternoon, sometime in the two hours or so before she departed Amherst. This could have happened but we have no phone or email or other indication of whom she saw that afternoon.

You are correct, both about the theory requiring some form of communication taking place between the two before she left and also about us not knowing who she contacted about it or how she contacted helper. I believe that if she chose to use her usual phone then helper would have been someone she usually contacted in her normal life so having that number show up on her phone calls from that phone would not seem out of place. But we can't rule out: her having a second cell phone that no one knew of, her seeing helper in person, borrowing a friends cell phone or making a landline call from another phone. So once you think you know when she made her choice of places to stay then you have narrowed down the window of time you are looking at to see who she contacted and that is at least a better starting place for finding her than when we were first confronted with a strange mystery that seemed to make no sense at all. Now we know when to look(from whatever time and date her comp records showed that search and her calls to the condo owners may help narrow that down a bit) and that can tell us a bit of where to look for her contacting helper. The investigation has a bit more focus all of the sudden.

 

[hydemi]

Dear Doc et al,

I posted at 9am on Saturday 12/10 on the <no longer working site> website Case Discussion what amounts to my theory of Maura's disappearance, better described as a summary of available evidence.

1) She left UMA because of "ambivalence and conflicting feelings" over decisions she was trying to make on her own about leaving school again, changing majors again, sticking with her boyfriend, in a state of burnout needing to get away. Keep in mind that she had already extended her undergraduate career by one year (04 to 05) by switching to nursing as well as going thru the extensive departure program required at West Point.

2) She left the scene of her second car wreck in two days in Swiftwater both unable to face the problems above, and now facing the consequences (insurance claims, possible drinking and driving charges) of two car wrecks in two days--the insurance claim form for her Dad's damaged car was on the seat of her Saturn beside her.

3) Where I am stuck but still more than fifty percent favoring the runaway theory (in the absence of any strong evidence of abduction or other possibilities), is whether all of this was enough to make her resolve to get away for an extended period and make her own new life without contacting family or her boyfriend. (She may have tried to contact her boyfriend via the unexplained phone call to his cellphone on Wed am 2/11/04--with the sounds of breathing, sniffing, sobbing thought to be her by the Rausches) I understand why this family or any family and her boyfriend would have a difficult time accepting such an outcome--the Maura they knew would never just disappear without contacting her loved ones.

4) If you read the Case Info timeline on the MauraMurray website, you will see reference to other vehicles and persons possibly seen at the accident scene in Swiftwater. Evidently these details and other suspicions are leading Mr. Murray and the family to believe that Maura was harmed by an opportunistic passing predator in the Haverhill local area. I have to respect their beliefs, even if I so far see the available evidence differently.

 

[docwho3]

Dear Doc et al,

I posted at 9am on Saturday 12/10 on the MauraMurray website Case Discussion what amounts to my theory of Maura's disappearance, better described as a summary of available evidence. . .

I will go look as soon as possible.
I spent the night doing maintenance on my hard drive. Had to mark some bad spots and then retest until all showed clean then I had to defrag the 24% fragmented hard drive which had never been done until now (Its was a new comp last year and we were gone most of this year until August so I hadn't been home to keep up with good computer housekeeping.) Now it looks as if I might have to delete and then reinstall the networking and tcp/ip to straighten out a few kinks in that. Oh well it could be worse.

 

[Peabody]

I've been home for several days.

But, perhaps computer problems are contagious - I have been having my share.

With two recent trips out of town and Christmas only two weeks away, I am sorry to say that I most likely will not have time to devote to this thread.

Hoping to pick up where I promised after the holidays.

Merry Christmas to all of you!



Bring Maura Home!
<modsnip - no longer a working website>

 

[docwho3]

. . .With two recent trips out of town and Christmas only two weeks away, I am sorry to say that I most likely will not have time to devote to this thread.

Hoping to pick up where I promised after the holidays.

Merry Christmas to all of you!. . .

Ok, I hope you have a nice and merry Christmas.

 

[pugsley]

Below is a partial post from Helena Murray on Maura's site.

<no longer working site>

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: Help is on the way Reply with quote
Finally we have some good news to share!!

We are very grateful to John Bish and the Molly Bish Foundation for arranging for us to be put in touch with a group of detectives and retired law enforcement personnel.

Last week Fred and other family members met with four members of a nine person team of detectives and retired law enforcement officers who will be working on Maura's case. Team members come from MA, NH, VT and even ME....We have been sending them information almost daily for their review.

 

[Peabody]

Below is a partial post from Helena Murray on Maura's site.

<no longer working site>

Helena Murray at <no longer working site> : "Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: Help is on the way. Finally we have some good news to share!!

We are very grateful to John Bish and the Molly Bish Foundation for arranging for us to be put in touch with a group of detectives and retired law enforcement personnel.

Last week Fred and other family members met with four members of a nine person team of detectives and retired law enforcement officers who will be working on Maura's case. Team members come from MA, NH, VT and even ME....We have been sending them information almost daily for their review."