NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 4

[docwho3]

First, I don't mean this question as a challenge. I think the questions you asked are intersting and given your perspective, understandable. You ask:



I know you've done a lot of research into voluntarily missing persons. How would one be admitted to a college, let alone finish college without transcripts proving attendence and completion of either high school or college courses. I suspect post Katrina it would be easy to say you were from the south, but prior to this past fall not as easy.

People with a false ID with some false documentation evidently can attend school, get jobs and other things. One adult runaway I read about evidently eluded detection for years and then for some reason when some years had gone by and she thought the heat was off she went back to using her old SS number and got found because a cop decided to again check her old SS number for activity after all those years.
*************
My original post was to ask 3 questions. People do not have to believe that Maura is an adult runaway to take their best guess on answering the questions as if she was an adult runaway. Assuming Maura had the needed documents:
1. If Maura is an adult runaway where do you (the reader) think she went to start a new life?
2. Do you think she finished college and if so what do you think she studied?
3. What sort of occupation would you think she would choose to make her living?

*************
Note: To set the record straight about my research so people don't get the impression that I know certain details that I do not know:
Yes I did do some online research into adult missing persons as in learning that it can take years for them to be found as some on that list provided by cyberlaw proved. From my research I learned that it is relatively easy to get a new name and that even a new SS# can be legally obtained (I posted about these things previously in other thread parts.) I did not go into all the details of getting other false documentation but I know that there have been places online for years where you could get all sorts of false documentation (Ever see those adds for buying a diploma? A few years back those were spamming my email constantly.) and I suspect that a college town has its share of people selling false documentation for all sorts of things.

What I do know is that people can and do go to school, get jobs and live lives under their new identity and they manage to do it for years. I don't know all the details of how they get the documents for school but I know it happens because adult runaways have been living for years and in some cases going into professional jobs under their new identities.

People who have committed crimes sometimes use false documents too. I remember recently watching a TV special about some woman that was wanted for something and she had such good false ID that even after she was profiled on one of those American Justice type shows and a tip came in that showed her whereabouts the cops checked her documentation and, although false, it was so good that they let her go thinking they had the wrong person.

 

[czechmate7]

I also do not think it is a consensus that Maura is/was an introvert. By all accounts, she was **slow** or cautous about letting a person into her close circle of friends, but if you read about her, everyone speaks of her witty remarks, her constant, contagious giggle, etc - not the decription of an introvert.........fairly certain that these descriptions or simiilar are in Kelly Jolkowski's blog http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/

I must have misunderstood your comment about Maura wanting to further her medical career...PA is one of the only careers I know of between nurse and doctor or you could have meant specializing in a certain area (ie,Physical therapy)
I completely understand what *introvert* is (being one myself). I am, also very guarded about letting insiders in; but once I get to know someone I can feel comfortable, joking around with them and such HOWEVER even those indivduals don't know everything there is to know about me....I giggle and ooze sarcasam (which I remember being one of Maura's traits in the article...witty remarks=sarcasm; trust me I'm the queen of it).
To say someone is introvert doesn't mean they live their lives under a rock, but they aren't center of attention or life of the party, but are very private and aren't quick to let people into their lives and have only a small circle of friends, as Maura has been described..it isn't a bad, awful thing...you make it sound as though being called an introvert casts a bad light or is a bad characteristic..no one thinks less of people who are introverts.

 

[Tristan]

Czechmate....your description describes me perfectly.....witty and loves to laugh, but VERY guarded about who I allow into my circle of friends, so I
understand what you mean.

Also, girls of that age often change a lot.
I mentioned that Maura probably would have had a helper if she
intentionally disappeared.

I'm curious....have the police commented about that, at all?

I'm sure they have a theory. Why won't they share it with Maura's family?

 

[czechmate7]

Does anyone know how far Mr. Murrays' hotel was from the dorm on the night of Maura's 1st wreck? In the article it said Maura got into the wreck an hour after she left the dorm. Also, does anyone know for sure if LE was called out to that wreck?

 

[Masterj]

Does anyone know how far Mr. Murrays' hotel was from the dorm on the night of Maura's 1st wreck? In the article it said Maura got into the wreck an hour after she left the dorm. Also, does anyone know for sure if LE was called out to that wreck?

I don't know all the details of that first wreck, but according to Sharon Rausch on mauramurray.com LE did not ticket Maura. I will try to find the post, but it led me to believe that police came to the scene and Maura was not cited.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

1. If Maura is an adult runaway where do you (the reader) think she went to start a new life?
2. Do you think she finished college and if so what do you think she studied?
3. What sort of occupation would you think she would choose to make her living?


About a thousand or so miles away. In this country.

No, not yet. I think she will but not yet.

I think right now she is a homemaker and staying home with baby(s) but when they go to school that will change.

 

[czechmate7]

I don't know all the details of that first wreck, but according to Sharon Rausch on mauramurray.com LE did not ticket Maura. I will try to find the post, but it led me to believe that police came to the scene and Maura was not cited.

Masterj~ I'm not concerned whether Maura was ticketed or not...I'm curious about what time the accident occured and how far Mr. Murray's hotel was from the dorm.

 

[Masterj]

Does anyone know how far Mr. Murrays' hotel was from the dorm on the night of Maura's 1st wreck? In the article it said Maura got into the wreck an hour after she left the dorm. Also, does anyone know for sure if LE was called out to that wreck?

Masterj~ I'm not concerned whether Maura was ticketed or not...I'm curious about what time the accident occured and how far Mr. Murray's hotel was from the dorm.

I was responding to your last question which i bolded above.

 

[czechmate7]

My question was how far did Maura have to travel from the dorm room to her father's hotel and what time accident occurred. The article I read stated from the time she left the dorm room, an hour later Maura she had an accident. Did it take an hour from the dorm room to fathers hotel?

 

[armywife210]

I would just like to remind everyone that a team of private investigators has gathered and donated their time, money, and efforts to getting the answers to this because they don't feel that it is a simple runaway situation, and something more sinister has taken place.

 

[czechmate7]

I would just like to remind everyone that a team of private investigators has gathered and donated their time, money, and efforts to getting the answers to this because they don't feel that it is a simple runaway situation, and something more sinister has taken place.

Since this group isn't LE and basically just a group of individuals that have donated time and have no legal obligation to keep their findings private are they willing to share the information which led them to believe something sinsister has happened?

I just need some shred of evidence that something sinister has taken place. I have no problem believing if any kind of factual evidence is given. I have yet to see any. Make me a believer please....I want to believe something awful has happened also (I'm starting to feel out of place on this thread!)

 

[docwho3]

I would just like to remind everyone that a team of private investigators has gathered and donated their time, money, and efforts to getting the answers to this because they don't feel that it is a simple runaway situation, and something more sinister has taken place.

Cool. We know that.

 

[docwho3]

My question was how far did Maura have to travel from the dorm room to her father's hotel and what time accident occurred. The article I read stated from the time she left the dorm room, an hour later Maura she had an accident. Did it take an hour from the dorm room to fathers hotel?

That sounds like a reasonable question to me. Maybe someone who really knows exactly can answer it.

 

[docwho3]

1. If Maura is an adult runaway where do you (the reader) think she went to start a new life?
2. Do you think she finished college and if so what do you think she studied?
3. What sort of occupation would you think she would choose to make her living?


About a thousand or so miles away. In this country.

No, not yet. I think she will but not yet.

I think right now she is a homemaker and staying home with baby(s) but when they go to school that will change.

Interesting answers. What makes you think she chose homemaker?

 

[murraydwyer]

My question was how far did Maura have to travel from the dorm room to her father's hotel and what time accident occurred. The article I read stated from the time she left the dorm room, an hour later Maura she had an accident. Did it take an hour from the dorm room to fathers hotel?

I spent some time searching my 'way back' info...I thought I had an answer print...I could not find it ...Based on a conversation I had with Maura's dad a couple of weeks ago (unrelated to Maura), and what I believe I was told by Sharon Rausch, I believe he would have stayed at one of the serveral motels in Hadley, about 5 minutes from the campus...but I do not know that to be a fact.

I don't know where the party was in relationship to Maura's dorm. It would appear from one article that it was in a dorm room, but if it was not in Maura's dorm could have been a long walk (short ride) away...the informaton I have indicates that Maura was with others and 'left at her dorm' which could indicate walking or driving. We don't know whether they stopped and chatted for a while. I also don't know whether Maura may have stopped to pack some clothes for the next day...she had arranged with her father to car shop and also had to work that day. I don't know how far away Maura may have had to park...on Campus parking is a major problem for students and she may have had to walk quite a distance to get to the car. We do know she did not head directly from the party to the motel because we know she went back to her dorm and if any or all of the above factored in it could easily have taken an hour.

 

[hydemi]

I really don't know the complete details, but nearly two years of reading posts has given me the following impression.

Maura would have left Sara's room sometime after 2.30am and walked to the lot where Dad's car was parked.

She left Amherst on Rte 9 the main road to Northampton although the motel where her Dad was staying is in Hadley. I would guess the distance was at the most eight to ten miles from Amherst.

The road was slippery and sometime after 3am the car slid off to the road hitting the guard rail damaging Dad's car to the tune of a 10K damage estimate although this "fact" was something mentioned later to the press by the much reviled Lt Scarinza of NHSP in his June 04 summary at Vermont St police barracks--a joint press conference about the cases of Maura and Brianna Maitland who had gone missing across the state line in Vermont.

The main reason she was not cited according to family posters is that the road was very slippery and icy.

A local Hadley policeman came up to the scene. Evidently he did not think she required any kind of alcohol testing.

The car was drivable so she continued to Dad's motel. The only other specific item which came out much later was that she called her boyfriend in Oklahoma at 4.49am Eastern time using Dad's cellphone because her cellphone was at Sara's. This is the conversation in the early press story where she was very upset not only (he thought) about the car accident but about something else and it took him a while to calm her down.

There was some kind of accident report either in the police log or local paper.

 

[czechmate7]

Hydemi..Thanks for the info.
You mentioned Maura left Amherst on Rte 9 on the main road to North Hampton although her dad's hotel was in Hadley. Forgive me because I don't know the area, but you made the statement as though Maura wasn't going toward the hotel. I pulled up a map that looks like Hadley is in the same direction as North Hampton?

 

[nnglas]

Just wanted to share this article with everyone. I guess it just goes to show that there is always hope.



http://www.insidebayarea.com/dailyreview/localnews/ci_3650322

 

[Tristan]

nnglas.....as much as that is a good story, in that the woman's son was found alive and well, I truly do feel that is is downright MEAN to disappear like that
for over 20 years....especially for no apparent reason.

Unless you were fleeing from a VERY abusive family situation, then I don't feel it is right to let your family think you're dead.

Maybe others will disagree, but just stop and think for a minute about how
you would feel if your wife, husband, son, daughter or brother or sister
were to do that. You would be distraught and sad....and then if you found out later....especially years later, that they were alive and well, it's nearly impossible not to have some semblance of anger and resentment.

 

[docwho3]

nnglas.....as much as that is a good story, in that the woman's son was found alive and well, I truly do feel that is is downright MEAN to disappear like that
for over 20 years....especially for no apparent reason.

Unless you were fleeing from a VERY abusive family situation, then I don't feel it is right to let your family think you're dead.

Maybe others will disagree, but just stop and think for a minute about how
you would feel if your wife, husband, son, daughter or brother or sister
were to do that. You would be distraught and sad....and then if you found out later....especially years later, that they were alive and well, it's nearly impossible not to have some semblance of anger and resentment.

Sure it seems mean but we do not know what went on in the head of the missing person. I try really hard not to judge the missing person or their family but to just decide if the person was the victem of foul play or not.

In my opinion there is a moral obligation to not worry family and friends and not to waste the time of L.E. on needless searches. I think we need laws that require a form be filled out with L.E. if one decides to go missing so resources won't be wasted looking for the runaway and family would know it is a case of an adult runaway. Yes some families would try to insist foul play had occurred anyway but with the law in place it would save resources and if a person ran away without filling out the form and was located they could be expected to pay the costs of the search and investigation into their disapearance.

Until we have such a law the sad fact is that adults evidently have a legal right to disappear. They have the right to privacy and the right to live their life where ever they want in the USA and none of us has to tell any relative or friend when we move or leave to go somewhere else.

In some cases where a person needs to run away from danger such freedom is a good thing but in cases where someone had some mental or family issue going on it leaves family and friends worrying with no answers, often for years and wastes valuable L.E. resources.